Thameslink protest

[Boycie]

High end stereo equipment?

http://i35.tinypic.com/99eyl4

Remember the brixton suitcase?

OMG! I always wanted one of them! My mate had one, I wasn't jealous of the little barsteward

[Leeds Ram]

Bombardier were actually going to get rid of over a thousand jobs anyway, and they wrote to the government before the decision was made to inform them of this, something to do with restructuring. Also, if you look at the figures in more detail and take your anti-tory hat off for a minute - I think its clouding your vision, you will see that 900 odd of jobs lost are in fact temporary staff who, more than likely will be got rid of in a few months time anyway. I feel truly sorry for the other 400 odd who will be losing there permanent jobs as it can't be nice, but its not entirely the governments fault, its the legislation which they have to abide by's fault, the one that was set up by Labour. Also, the Transport Secretary has said that it had no choice because of how it was set up and otherwise there would be no contract at all, by the time these trains are manufactured then they will be 16 years behind schedule so they had to go through with that.

If you also looked at the letter you would realise that they stated that with this contract they would avoid most of the job losses.

[Leeds Ram]

people should hate the merchant bankers not the ordinary branch managers, frankly you can't pin this on labour, the coalition have been in power for a year and have known about this legislation and if they didn't like it, why haven't they reformed it? they love radical reform and cutting down the red tape, surely this would be a key point for the transport secretary?

The economy is dead, shropshire county council has offered virtually everyone redundancy and offered them new contracts on poorer rates,Derby city hospital has to save the equivalent of over 70,000 a day, inflation at 5%, more people on JSA than for a long time, the high street is going down the pan and more job losses expected, growth has been forecast down and down to 1.2% at a possible level, however that is only if we avoid the evil snow killing our economy or the blistering sunshine.

People are taking the government to court left right and center, first over reforms at county council level to care of vulnerable now students over tuition fees, protests seeming more of a common occurrence and with the cuts not yet biting it will be a tough year with maybe more protests and strike action coming.

[tomsdubs]

people should hate the merchant bankers not the ordinary branch managers, frankly you can't pin this on labour, the coalition have been in power for a year and have known about this legislation and if they didn't like it, why haven't they reformed it? they love radical reform and cutting down the red tape, surely this would be a key point for the transport secretary?

The economy is dead, shropshire county council has offered virtually everyone redundancy and offered them new contracts on poorer rates,Derby city hospital has to save the equivalent of over 70,000 a day, inflation at 5%, more people on JSA than for a long time, the high street is going down the pan and more job losses expected, growth has been forecast down and down to 1.2% at a possible level, however that is only if we avoid the evil snow killing our economy or the blistering sunshine.

People are taking the government to court left right and center, first over reforms at county council level to care of vulnerable now students over tuition fees, protests seeming more of a common occurrence and with the cuts not yet biting it will be a tough year with maybe more protests and strike action coming.

1: No proof of your stated numbers.

2: Cuts would have come in under both governments as Labour fooked it up.

3: The legislation cannot be simply removed as it was under EU regulation which the Labour government pushed us deeper in to. Just like they cannot change the decision because they'd be in trouble with the EU.

You are naive in the fact you have grown up in the last 15 years when the economy was prosperus, if you had grown up 25 years ago you'd see this wasn't so bad. Whenever there is necessary changes to be made for the benefit of the countries long term welfare some people always come of worse. Just like the move from manufacturing to a service based economy in the 80's. Did you see the Evan Davies three part series on the state of the economy on the BBC? The last one is on iplayer, give it a watch.

[ramjam]

I think the figures around the job losses are:

Bombardier to make 1,400 people redundant, 400 of which are full time staff – this amounts to 50% of workforce. Bombardier had warned the government of up to 1,000 redundancies irrespective of the Thameslink contract.

Siemens will create 2,000 UK jobs, but only 300 of which are in manufacturing in the North East.

In terms of second/third order job losses, it’s difficult to say although you can only assume Derby will be worse off.

The EU procurement process, as Tomsdubs states, was something that the UK was pushed deeper into by Labour and the current government is in no position to reform. Even so 98.5% of all UK public spending goes to UK firms.

With all this considered, just blindly supporting UK manufacturing is hardly sensible. We need to ensure the right investment is made to raise the standard of British manufacturing so we can compete internationally – the recent Evan Davies documentaries showed good examples for this. Whatever the problems, this is due to successive governments, not one party or another.

As for the financial crisis, I’m sure this has been argued to death but it’s much more than merchant bankers(?). A combination of poor US mortgage regulation and cheap worldwide credit initiated the crises, which was worsened by the Investment banks and there actions in securitising debt and other risky behavoir. This was exacerbated in the UK by the over reliance on property and financial services in general as well as by light-touch regulation.

[Leeds Ram]

1: No proof of your stated numbers.

2: Cuts would have come in under both governments as Labour fooked it up.

3: The legislation cannot be simply removed as it was under EU regulation which the Labour government pushed us deeper in to. Just like they cannot change the decision because they'd be in trouble with the EU.

You are naive in the fact you have grown up in the last 15 years when the economy was prosperus, if you had grown up 25 years ago you'd see this wasn't so bad. Whenever there is necessary changes to be made for the benefit of the countries long term welfare some people always come of worse. Just like the move from manufacturing to a service based economy in the 80's. Did you see the Evan Davies three part series on the state of the economy on the BBC? The last one is on iplayer, give it a watch.

how about my dad works in the derby hospital and this is what they have been told, and the inflation figure as well as the growth figure is well known, they are published by either the ons or ifs, same with the job seekers allowance rate and the shropshire county council my mum got told about that I believe by someone who was working with her, that might be wrong but will ask her tonight, Evan davies series was on manufacturing not the economy either. For the benefit of the country? well that is certainly debatable as they are not reducing the debt at all and this country has always had a debt, growth is the way out and we aren't growing. As well with Greece the austerity measures there are failing and are virtually doomed to failure. The cuts would be not coming as fast with labour than with the condem coalition, though i am not a fan of labour anyway.

[tomsdubs]

how about my dad works in the derby hospital and this is what they have been told, and the inflation figure as well as the growth figure is well known, they are published by either the ons or ifs, same with the job seekers allowance rate and the shropshire county council my mum got told about that I believe by someone who was working with her, that might be wrong but will ask her tonight, Evan davies series was on manufacturing not the economy either. For the benefit of the country? well that is certainly debatable as they are not reducing the debt at all and this country has always had a debt, growth is the way out and we aren't growing. As well with Greece the austerity measures there are failing and are virtually doomed to failure. The cuts would be not coming as fast with labour than with the condem coalition, though i am not a fan of labour anyway.

So all your figures are hearsay? The documentary was not solely on manufacturing mate, you obviously didn't see it. Heres an episode title: "Evan Davis looks at the explosive growth of Britain's services economy."

We'll leave it at that, not going to waste my time on you anymore.

[froggg]

I heard that 12000 other jobs will go in Derby, the firms that supply bombardier will have to lay off they're staff:(

[Leeds Ram]

So all your figures are hearsay? The documentary was not solely on manufacturing mate, you obviously didn't see it. Heres an episode title: "Evan Davis looks at the explosive growth of Britain's services economy."

We'll leave it at that, not going to waste my time on you anymore.

you think the inflation rate, projected growth which are figures calculated by financial institutions as well as a tremendous rise in people claiming job seekers allowance is hearsay? and my dad got told by the person in charge on the ward that the hospital has to save 70,000 a day and that is what they had been told by management, Also the figures for the debt going up are from the government as well. so yeah hearsay...... I think you show your naivety when you don't trust official figures and call them hearsay. The shropshire one fine, I will ask her when she gets back from work. Well i watched the first two and they were both on about how our industry has changed the second one was all about intellectual property.

[Leeds Ram]

I heard that 12000 other jobs will go in Derby, the firms that supply bombardier will have to lay off they're staff:(

exactly, this is the possible uncalculated cost, the multiplier effect, now shops will trade far less because of this and this could lead too more stores closing eventually.

[Leeds Ram]

also i think you took that quote out of context maybe or didn't include the whole thing as the first two were about the perception that we rely on the service industry but do we.

[tomsdubs]

you think the inflation rate, projected growth which are figures calculated by financial institutions as well as a tremendous rise in people claiming job seekers allowance is hearsay? and my dad got told by the person in charge on the ward that the hospital has to save 70,000 a day and that is what they had been told by management, Also the figures for the debt going up are from the government as well. so yeah hearsay...... I think you show your naivety when you don't trust official figures and call them hearsay. The shropshire one fine, I will ask her when she gets back from work. Well i watched the first two and they were both on about how our industry has changed the second one was all about intellectual property.

Hearsay as in you don't have any reference to any official report, but you obviously don't understand what hearsay means. Spewing out numbers without any creditable backing or date of publishment. Don't care what your parents say, published reports/texts and journals are credible.

If i submit a technical report i can't reference my mum.

Instead of googling it and showing me figures you seem to be more intent on being right all the time and getting in to these tedious arguments. Every thread you post in resorts to this lame BS. I don't want to argue for the sake of winning, if someone can enlighten me then i will embrace it. You can get the figures you speak of on the BBC news website. JSA claiments dropped and came back up, take a look at the figures i can't be arsed.

[Leeds Ram]

ok then, 2 pieces out of the 5 were hearsay then, the rest of them for instance inflation at 5% is well enough known throughout the country that surely i don't need to link the fecking report or observance to it, same with growth, it is surely a common fact that people know this, it is frequently mentioned in the commons even by mr Cameron and especially by Mr Balls.

Every thread you post in resorts to this lame BS. I don't want to argue for the sake of winning,

my response to that is DEAL WITH IT

[tomsdubs]

ok then, 2 pieces out of the 5 were hearsay then, the rest of them for instance inflation at 5% is well enough known throughout the country that surely i don't need to link the fecking report or observance to it, same with growth, it is surely a common fact that people know this, it is frequently mentioned in the commons even by mr Cameron and especially by Mr Balls.

Every thread you post in resorts to this lame BS. I don't want to argue for the sake of winning,

my response to that is DEAL WITH IT

Still not proved me wrong with anything so what am i dealing with? But if you want to look like an immature keyboard warrior carry on mate. Bet you'd act differently when face to face with anyone here.

[dcfcdavecov]

Still not proved me wrong with anything so what am i dealing with? But if you want to look like an immature keyboard warrior carry on mate. Bet you'd act differently when face to face with anyone here.

I'd punch you all in the face. I'm hard.

[Leeds Ram]

Still not proved me wrong with anything so what am i dealing with? But if you want to look like an immature keyboard warrior carry on mate. Bet you'd act differently when face to face with anyone here.

Again this information is very widespread so i would expect people to know it, inflation IS at 5%, and also when someone would make such ridiculous posts e.g. prove what is happening at the moment e.g. inflation at 5% THEN I would deal with it the same way in person as on here. By saying DEAL WITH IT after making posts about my style of post.

[SillyBilly]

Regardless of the justification of this particular deal and as Uttox insinuated, more protection is required for British industry. Continental Europeans do it whilst we palm off every deal with a mere shrug accompanied by a grunt of "Lisbon Treaty". Gordon Brown sneaking in the back door to sign on the dotted line and the writing of blank cheques in the "boom" years is my lasting memory of Labour.

[Boycie]

Jeez.

so much for "no wasting my time on you anymore":rolleyes:

[uttoxram75]

In today's Mirror............

THEY survived a Zeppelin bombing raid in 1916, and the Luftwaffe in 1940. But where the German bombers failed Tory ministers are succeeding, with a simple, but cruel, stroke of the pen.

Dave Cameron confirmed in Prime Minister’s Questions a crucial £1.5billion order for Thameslink trains will go to Siemens in Germany, not Britain’s last train maker, Bombardier.

The result: 1,400 jobs lost at Bombardier in Derby over the next three months, four times that number in supply firms and the possible demise of the last train constructor in the UK.

Advertisement >>

Britain invented the railway, but with his export of British jobs to Germany, Cameron has signed the death warrant of an industry that goes back 171 years in this railway city.

And Derby is furious with his treachery. I joined the day shift clocking on at 7.30am at the company’s historic plant on Litchurch Lane.

I think it’s awful,” says Lesley Frost, 53, a breakfast chef. “The Government should never have given this order to Germany. They would never send their work here.

“I’ve worked here five years, but I don’t know what’s going to happen.”

LESLEY’S plight is common to the 446 full-time and 983 agency staff who are receiving letters warning of redundancy over the next 90 days.

Methods engineer Mick Smith, 49, with 33 years’ service at the plant, is angry. “It’s disgraceful,” he exclaimed. “The lads feel they have been stabbed in the back. But what do you expect from the Conservatives?”

Transport Secretary Phil Hammond blames Labour, claiming European rules negotiated in the Blair-Brown era require him to give the Thameslink contract to the lowest bidder. If this sounds like a cop-out for one of the Cabinet’s most Eurosceptic ministers, that’s because it is.

And it fools no one in the plant. John Pearson of Unite, chairman of the works committee, insists: “This wouldn’t have happened in any other European country. The Germans stick by their own, and the French and Spanish do the same.

“And he admits the socio-economic costs were not factored in.”

When you do that, the cost of closing Bombardier accelerates faster than one of their Turbostar diesel expresses.

And closure is possible. Derby’s order book runs until 2014, and without new contracts it could be the end of the line. But all is not quite lost. Bombardier remains the reserve bidder, and Mr Hammond has agreed to meet the rail unions next week.

And Labour has weighed in. A source close to party leader Ed Miliband told the Mirror: “We know this is a huge issue both for Derby and the country, and we are going to keep pressing on this.”

Chris Williamson, Labour MP for Derby North, has already collected 20,000 signatures on a petition demanding a reversal of the decision and a rally on July 23 promises to be the biggest in the city for years.

Works committee member Allan Powell, 63, of RMT, says: “It’s going to be a bad time. We had it in 1994 when we were nearly closed because of another Tory decision, when we lost the contract for the Northern Line to Spain. We went below 200 people.

“We don’t blame the company, our argument is with the Government.”

Unite man John, 63, looks at the prospect of so many jobs going down the plughole with dismay.

“Everybody was confident we’d got it. When we didn’t, everybody was stunned. It’s an absolute scandal.”

I wish them luck in their fight to force a U-turn. If the ConDems can do it for forests, they can do it for workers.

I came down from Leeds to Derby on a Bombardier diesel express. Crowded, but fast and comfortable. With passenger numbers bounding ahead, this is truly The Age of the Train.

But unless Cameron has a rethink, it will be the age of the foreign-built train.

We gave the world the railway, but he is taking it from us.

Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/09/rage-of-the-train-paul-routledge-joins-betrayed-workers-at-bombardier-115875-23258147/#ixzz1Rb3NT22c

Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information

[uttoxram75]

Is there hope yet. Looks like Siemens are not squeaky clean, £350million fine ffs.......

A dossier of evidence suggesting that German rail firm Siemens is not fit to take on a key government carriage construction contract will be presented to Transport Secretary Philip Hammond tomorrow.

Unions Unite and RMT, which has threatened legal action over the deal, will confront the Tory minister over his decision to award the Thameslink contract to Siemens ahead of a competing bid from Derby-based Bombardier.

The decision, based on EU procurement rules, has led directly to the announcement of 1,400 job losses at the British plant..

Trade unionists will weild a dossier detailing questionable aspects of Siemens' past including a penalty of €400 million (£350m) imposed by the EU in 2007 for its leading role in a cartel which controlled the market in gas insulated switchgear for electricity grids.

Siemens lost its appeal to a European Court to overturn the anti-trust fine - the largest ever imposed by the EU executive on a single company - on March 3.

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said the dossier raised "serious questions that need answering about the business practices of Siemens" and urged the government to take full account of the barrage of evidence that has been uncovered when considering whether to call off the jobs massacre at Bombardier.

Unite has revealed that pollsters' findings show a majority of British people think the government should prioritise British companies over foreign ones when awarding major contracts.

"The weight of public opinion is on the side of Bombardier and against the government's short-sighted decision," said Unite assistant general secretary Diana Holland.

"Politicians, the public and the media are equally shocked by the government's decision not to award Bombardier the Thameslink contract.

"The government must rethink its disastrous decision and support British manufacturing and skilled jobs."

Unite general secretary Len McCluskey will meet Mr Hammond alongside RMT and is poised to announce the full details of the mass demonstration in Derby on Saturday July 23.

A Siemens spokeswoman said it is intending to create about 2,000 new jobs in Britain with the Thameslink project.

She added that the points raised in the dossier were outdated, irrelevant and unrelated to Thameslink or its British business.