Undisclosed transfer fees

[G STAR RAM]

To be honest, what's in it for the club, letting people know how much the transfers went for?

If it was my club, and I was running it, I wouldn't feel inclined to share that information. I'd just be opening myself up for a hammering from the fans no matter what the figures were.

Nothing in it for the club but it shows that they are prepared to be transparent about how the club is being run.

If they are going to feed us with news which shows them in a good light (season ticket promotion and sales numbers) then they should also be prepared to show information that fans may not be happy with.

[GboroRam]

I appreciate the "end user" perspective - but why should the club, from their perspective, give out information that the fans might not be happy with? Morally maybe yes, but practically - if it was my club - I wouldn't.

That's why I'm not too surprised when fees aren't announced.

[p.shilton]

I think in some cases it is to take a bit of pressure off the player also. If we had signed Theo for 500k and publicised it I think he would have exploded due to nerves!

[TelTheRam]

Maybe another reason is so that other clubs don't know how much we've spent.

If they knew we'd spent £xxx on one player they might think "Derby are willing to pay that amount so we'll ask for more when they come to us for our player".

[Gaspode]

I hate 'undisclosed' fees - if my club buys a player, I want to know how much we've paid - conversely, I want to know how much we get when we sell someone - all we seem to get is meaningless comments ("it was good business") - good financial business?; good football business?; good business because we've got rid of a player that is more trouble than he is worth? If you read the interview with Arthur, it mentions when we sold Kevin Wilson - he was on fire at the time and I remember being a bit naffed off even though we got a decent price for him - we then went on to use the money for Trevor Christie, Gary Micklewhite and Geraint Williams - it was all in the open and it actually demonstrated how switched on Arthur & Roy were. Nowadays, we sell someone for an unknown amount and then use who knows what amount of that fee to fund replacements - no wonder people give Nigel grief when we've no idea what's happening from a financial perspective.

In addition, after all the fuss about bungs and agents etc a few years ago, I could never understand why the clubs weren't forced to come clean about transfers - if both sides had to publicly register the fees involved, it would reduce the possibility of dodgy dealing - there is a general lack of trust in football owners nowadays - undisclosed fees only serve to reinforce that....

[davenportram]

It's simple.

It's because the club don't want us to know how much we have sold and bought players for, so we don't know how much we have made on transfer dealings.

Or is it because we sell good players for peanuts and font want to annoy the fans

Or is it because we pay over the odds for players.

Or is it because the teams we have bought from have sold to us for peanuts and don't want their fans to be annoyed.

Or us it because we have sold for a high price and the buying club don't want their fans to know they have paid over the odds.

I think I have covered all the options.

[trekkie_ram]

You definitely covered it...

[Asanovic]

Surely we judge the managers abilities on the quality of players he buys not the costs?Don`t see a problem with undisclosed fees most clubs do it nowadays.

Not really.

If we signed Jamie Ward on a free, it's fantastic business, and great work by the management.

If we paid £4m for him, it's terrible business, and poor work by the management.

Money talks.

[Gaspode]

Not really.

If we signed Jamie Ward on a free, it's fantastic business, and great work by the management.

If we paid £4m for him, it's terrible business, and poor work by the management.

Money talks.

Agreed - the only people who can strictly judge the manager on the quality of the players bought without looking at the cost are Man City fans (and at one time, but possibly no more, Chelsea). Every other manager is expected to buy players that are (at least) good value for money - that expectation doesn't just come from the fans, but also the boardroom and sponsors etc.....the view that Rams fans have of Paul Jewel (ignoring the photos on the Mercedes) is that he spent a lot of money on mediocre players - if we'd picked up the same players for nothing (and paid them less in terms of wages), we would still have thought that Jewel was crap, but may not have judged him quite so badly....

[Ambitious]

I agree, this is why managers make transfers undisclosed though, to take the pressure of themself and the player.

If you was a player coming into a club like Derby knowing you'd just been brought for 1million+ you're going to have a lot of pressure on you from day one.. I remember Howard and Hulse getting boo'd early on into their Derby career for not scoring, our fans aren't the brightest at times and instead of supporting the team and lifting them, almost seem intent on hurting confidence even more.. It comes to something when people have written off Robinson and even Eustace before they've even had a chance to prove themselfs, foul cretins!

[ramsbottom]

I agree, this is why managers make transfers undisclosed though, to take the pressure of themself and the player.

If you was a player coming into a club like Derby knowing you'd just been brought for 1million+ you're going to have a lot of pressure on you from day one.. I remember Howard and Hulse getting boo'd early on into their Derby career for not scoring, our fans aren't the brightest at times and instead of supporting the team and lifting them, almost seem intent on hurting confidence even more.. It comes to something when people have written off Robinson and even Eustace before they've even had a chance to prove themselfs, foul cretins!

Careful, I'd say you're calling roughly half our fans cretins...

[trekkie_ram]

Careful, I'd say you're calling roughly half our fans cretins...

He's right though.

[Leeds Ram]

He's right though.

we are not cretins at all, robinson has had a chance but for me and others was quite poor for the majority of his stay. We give our opinions on who we think would be good or not, if we are wrong then i imagine most of us will apologise including me, however to call me a cretin for holding a different view is ironically enough a cretinous point of view in itself

[trekkie_ram]

we are not cretins at all, robinson has had a chance but for me and others was quite poor for the majority of his stay. We give our opinions on who we think would be good or not, if we are wrong then i imagine most of us will apologise including me, however to call me a cretin for holding a different view is ironically enough a cretinous point of view in itself

The point that he is right on, is that people don't give players enough of a chance before booing. You shouldn't boo your own.

[Ambitious]

I can't remember who wrote it but earlier on in the year some genius categorised the difference between fans and supporters. It's safe to say that everyone (bar the forest fans) is a fan of Derby County, you wouldn't be on here otherwise but you could only class half of them as supporters, put yourself in the players shoes.. being boo'd by your own fans wouldn't make you want to work any harder for them, so it doesn't help IMO. I've never understood the 'fan' view personally, it's like they're somehow imprisoned into the Derby shirt and will kick and scream about anything that they don't agree with.. that isn't support in my book, not even close.

[trekkie_ram]

I've just finished reading Tony Cascarino's book, and during a dry spell (I think at Chelsea) his young son comes up to him at one stage, having been teased at school and says "you're not very good are you Dad?", how do you answer that?. Later on at the same club, one of his best mates revealed the abuse he'd been having at work about how useless Cascarino is.

During his days at Celtic, a 'fan' approached him when he was out shopping with his family and started ripping him to shreds, using every cuss word thinkable, Tony tried "I take your point, but I'm with my family" to no avail.

Ironically after his friend had told him of the abuse he was getting, Tony worked incredibly hard at his fitness, and moved to Marseille. He had 6 seasons in France, where he was nicknamed 'Tony Goal' for his prolific scoring record.

[Leeds Ram]

i class myself as a supporter and rarely boo, however it is galling to watch useless players get paid 5,000 a week when my dad who saves lives gets paid 21k a year. I understand those who boo but i don't say i have to agree with everything to make myself a supporter, i love my club and support it, just because i have disagreements doesn't mean i don't. I wouldn't abuse a player iof he was with his family i have standards, i would only rip him to shreds if he wasn't trying on the pitch and io would only rip him to shreds at the football, because i pay for my ticket and i deserve my say.

[GboroRam]

I'd say the difference between fans and supporters is whether you put your own money into the team. You might say those who attend games and pay for attendance are supporting the team, or you might say it's anyone who puts their money in (be it via buying merchandise etc or tickets). Fans for me are those people who for one reason or another don't put money into the club. Each to their own on the definition though - it's not exactly in the dictionary.

[UTR.93]

i thought undisclosed was because a set fee wasn't there? Like £500,000 for a player plus an extra £200,000 in appearences, goals ect. Therefore leaving it undisclosed ?

[Anag Ram]

I'd say the difference between fans and supporters is whether you put your own money into the team. You might say those who attend games and pay for attendance are supporting the team, or you might say it's anyone who puts their money in (be it via buying merchandise etc or tickets). Fans for me are those people who for one reason or another don't put money into the club. Each to their own on the definition though - it's not exactly in the dictionary.

I think you're right in that anyone who puts money into the club expects the team to perform well, much as shareholders expect their business to perfom well. You expect the players to show a high degree of fitness and determination and in the top two divisions, an element of skill. You also expect some sort of organisation within the team which shows the coaching staff are doing their jobs. After that, you just hope that's enough to win. If you don't see these traits in the players, you expect changes in the playing staff. If you don't see organisation in your team, you expect to see the management change. We flattered to deceive last November but it was great to watch. I'm a little disappointed that the players we're in for are so predictable - the also-rans that no-one wants. I also remember how much I moaned when we brought Paul Dickov in, but no-one has tried harder in a Derby shirt. Let's give the new boys a chance, and give them a big cheer in the new season. They will be short of confidence but all in their time have shown they have it.