Clough says tough times ahead?

[Derbiean]

Vodka for me comrade

[SillyBilly]

The longer process works, IF you build the side and get them playing together. A squad core that plays together for a while will gel better, and Clough wants to build a young side with a few experienced players that will slowly improve.

At some point, promotion will come. This season we want a top half finish, Nigel said this himself. Anything better is a bonus. When was the last time we finished in the top half? That IS improvement. It is undeniable.

Next season I think, if we manage the top half this season, will be a real play offs push. We MUST have a striker in by then, if not I will be questioning GSE's priorities alot more.

But improvement and building a squad works, splashing money around can go badly if you do not get promoted. Forest will not be, and they're incredibly lucky that they have Doughty. QPR are also lucky. We do not have those funds.

I respect your view which is probably the majority rule so you maybe right. I personally think if Clough isn't backed accordingly we will fluctuate up and down this league year-on-year. I doubt Clough's wheeling and dealing no matter how shrewd will be enough to force us into the top 6. Each year we have 3 demoted teams who fancy their chances, some also-rans from the past season, the odd big spender or two and the traditional championship surprise package. Inless we get a ticket for the latter, I'm verging towards pessimism that in likelihood terms (no great indicator admittedly) we'll do well to finish top 8. I feel you can assemble the nucleus you refer to for a decent budget but to have the quality to go up, you need to, more often than not (cover my back) have to pay a premium. I would find it hard to argue against anyone who could disagree on this particular point.

Inless you can fund that extra bit of quality or be prepared to subsidise star player wages you are competing against of body of at least 16 teams in the championship that are just as likely to pip you to the post as you are them. In other words we are in a lottery inless our board intend to back us, this is my reserved opinion. I expect people here have 100% belief in Nigel which I share on a good day but I fear, perhaps unwarrantedly that even if he has/did find some gems, the proverbial carpet would be swept from under his feet by the board. This would upset any 3 or 5 year plan. I will feel totally let down and cheated if GSE have no substance to back up their words.

[Alex W]

I respect your view which is probably the majority rule so you maybe right. I personally think if Clough isn't backed accordingly we will fluctuate up and down this league year-on-year. I doubt Clough's wheeling and dealing no matter how shrewd will be enough to force us into the top 6. Each year we have 3 demoted teams who fancy their chances, some also-rans from the past season, the odd big spender or two and the traditional championship surprise package. Inless we get a ticket for the latter, I'm verging towards pessimism that in likelihood terms (no great indicator admittedly) we'll do well to finish top 8. I feel you can assemble the nucleus you refer to for a decent budget but to have the quality to go up, you need to, more often than not (cover my back) have to pay a premium. I would find it hard to argue against anyone who could disagree on this particular point.

Inless you can fund that extra bit of quality or be prepared to subsidise star player wages you are competing against of body of at least 16 teams in the championship that are just as likely to pip you to the post as you are them. In other words we are in a lottery inless our board intend to back us, this is my reserved opinion. I expect people here have 100% belief in Nigel which I share on a good day but I fear, perhaps unwarrantedly that even if he has/did find some gems, the proverbial carpet would be swept from under his feet by the board. This would upset any 3 or 5 year plan. I will feel totally let down and cheated if GSE have no substance to back up their words.

I agree that the quality does need to be invested in, but I don't think you need that many stand out players to go up. One or two in the side and you're sorted. A big part of ours would be a striker, and the club really need to step up to the plate on this one and buy us a striker who will at the very least be consistent in this league for 2-3 years. Add to that a stand out midfielder (I believe Addison can be this man once Savage is done) and a stand out defender (Brayford and Barker fit the bill) then the rest of the squad need to be adequate enough and playing as a unit. If all that can be achieved, then we have a sound footing.

If the carpet were to be swept from underneath him, then I would hope that we would all make sure the board were ran out of the club at the earliest available oppurtunity. I don't consider that they'll do that however, they're smart enough to know that making the squad worse will not leave the fans happy. They already know with what skepticism they're currently viewed. I think we can go up, and as long as we progress each year under Nigels targets then i'm happy.

If transfers are continously being denied or deals that we really should be going for are overlooked for being 'too expensive' then there must be changes. But almost everything i've seen so far make me believe that they will spend big on certain players, if Nigel thinks they're worth it. Glick was prepared to let Nigel bid £1m for Mackie remember and Nigel didn't think he was worth it.

I respect your opinion, as people have different views on how to get promoted. Certain managers want to spend, certain managers are prepared to wheel and deal even if the money is there. Neither is right or wrong, but both can work or fail. I believe that it will work with Nigel and this boards aims, but only time will tell.

[PeteDerby]

If transfers are continously being denied or deals that we really should be going for are overlooked for being 'too expensive' then there must be changes. But almost everything i've seen so far make me believe that they will spend big on certain players, if Nigel thinks they're worth it.

But transfers have constantly been denied. Haven't you noticed that we've only signed cheap or loan players?

And where on earth do you draw your confidence that they will 'spend big' on certain players - Tom Glick's weasel words? There certainly hasn't been any evidence.

Do you really think a manager with Clough's long pedigree in the game thinks that any club ever gets anywhere without a reasonable budget? He's being very diplomatic I'll give you that, but saying it's not worth spunking his entire budget on a player is not quite the same as saying he doesn't think a player won't be an improvement on what we've got.

[Bris Vegas]

But transfers have constantly been denied. Haven't you noticed that we've only signed cheap or loan players?

And where on earth do you draw your confidence that they will 'spend big' on certain players - Tom Glick's weasel words? There certainly hasn't been any evidence.

Do you really think a manager with Clough's long pedigree in the game thinks that any club ever gets anywhere without a reasonable budget? He's being very diplomatic I'll give you that, but saying it's not worth spunking his entire budget on a player is not quite the same as saying he doesn't think a player won't be an improvement on what we've got.

Shaun Barker wasn't cheap.. I don't see many other Championship clubs spending $1mill on a defender.. Not to mention Moxey..

And last summer, Brayford and Bailey weren't free.. Nor was the loan signing of Bueno but I take in to account the sale of Hulse..

Judging by the last 2 summers I don't have any doubts that NC will be able to spend roughly 1-1.5mill this summer.. Would gladly accept another 2 players in the mould of Brayford and Bailey..

This is without the free transfers too which we all know aren't exactly 'free'.

[Alex W]

But transfers have constantly been denied. Haven't you noticed that we've only signed cheap or loan players?

And where on earth do you draw your confidence that they will 'spend big' on certain players - Tom Glick's weasel words? There certainly hasn't been any evidence.

Do you really think a manager with Clough's long pedigree in the game thinks that any club ever gets anywhere without a reasonable budget? He's being very diplomatic I'll give you that, but saying it's not worth spunking his entire budget on a player is not quite the same as saying he doesn't think a player won't be an improvement on what we've got.

Show me cases where Clough has had deals denied to him by the board. The only one I can think of was McCormack, and his wages were on par with what Commons is rumoured to want now.

I do not believe him to be a liar, and I have my own reasons for believing certain things. The money is there for Nigel, we have been unlucky with some signings.

He got somewhere at Burton with a reasonable budget. Stoke did so, and Wolves. We are modelling ourselves on them. That is what we are aspiring too, big fees on selective players then loans and smart deals.

If we had spent money on Mackie, there may not have been enough for Hooper. We bid 'around double' for Hooper that we did for Barker. We do not have £2.5m-£3m a window, especially considering we'd already spent over £1m on the deal for Brayford and Bailey, add to that signing on fees for Cywka and Roberts and there's a large budget spent for a team aspiring for the top half. That would have been over £4m.

I think they know what they're doing, they're playing smart. But we need a striker soon, I agree with that. We have been unlucky with Hooper, and Vaughun especially, but we need to pull through on a deal.

[uttoxram75]

A up Pete,

Methinks its getting close to put up or shut up now.

Nige has done absolutely tops in bringing in players like Barker, Brayford, Bailey as well as Bueno on loan. Couple that with getting Commons to play arguably his best football of his career.

He's done his bit I reckon. There's very little he can do to build on this without a bit of backing.

Its a strange and infuriating position we find ourselves in atm.

For a few games we saw football played as it should be, on the deck, one twos all over the shop and cracking goals flying in from everywhere.

Did'nt we have a team out once this season where every outfield player had scored?

I can understand the reluctance to invest after the disaster of financing Jewell and paying off the ludicrous wages that were inherited from Davies, but that's gone.

If any manager has proven that he's worth a gamble with spending some money its Clough.

If the board can't or won't recognise this then they are not serious about their involvement with DCFC.

I don't want to support a club that buys success, It is always so much sweeter to have a bit of glory that is hard earned. But now's the time to at least compete with clubs around us that will never be as well supported as us.

Nige has put a shift in for his bosses, he deserves a chance to make the next step.

[Ambitious]

This is getting ridiculous, the board clearly are not up to the job! Why are they still at the club if they aren't planning on doing anything with us?

I'm pretty sick and tired of being on GSE's CV and them doing **** all with us.

[StaffsRam]

Sensible as always 'Utch.

With the open-ness of the league this season there surely can't be a better time to invest/gamble. 3 points off the playoffs FFS.

I'll be extremely disappointed if we p1ss away this transfer window.

[davenportram]

Sensible as always 'Utch.

With the open-ness of the league this season there surely can't be a better time to invest/gamble. 3 points off the playoffs FFS.

I'll be extremely disappointed if we p1ss away this transfer window.

Just being picky but we are 5 points from play offs and he team in 6th have a game in hand on us to boot. Forest have 2 games in hand and if they win both if them they will be on 43 and in 6th so that makes possibly 8 to 9 points from play offs. Of course we play both of these 2 teams next in the league but even if we win them we could still be 5 or 6 points from the play off places. If we draw or lose these next 2 when the postponed games are all replayed we could well be over 10 points from 6th place.

[PeteDerby]

Just being picky but we are 5 points from play offs and he team in 6th have a game in hand on us to boot. Forest have 2 games in hand and if they win both if them they will be on 43 and in 6th so that makes possibly 8 to 9 points from play offs. Of course we play both of these 2 teams next in the league but even if we win them we could still be 5 or 6 points from the play off places. If we draw or lose these next 2 when the postponed games are all replayed we could well be over 10 points from 6th place.

Silly Billy I think it was made a great point about how meaningless mid table positions are. Bottom 3 and obviously in trouble, or top 5 and obvious contenders are the only real positions of note.

A fluke 94th minute deflection in a game can send a team up 5 places, but it doesn't mean that they're any more likely to get promoted.

Look how many places we climbed last year because Cardiff turned up with their reserve team. You think that was 'progress' cos we finished a few league places higher than the previous season? What if they'd played their full strength team and we'd got our backsides kicked - would the resultant league position mean the season was a failure?

Fact is that Derby are nowhere near good enough to sustain a promotion challenge, however much fun that run of good form was. We just don't have the players - and there's no cash to change that.

[davenportram]

Look how many places we climbed last year because Cardiff turned up with their reserve team. You think that was 'progress' cos we finished a few league places higher than the previous season? What if they'd played their full strength team and we'd got our backsides kicked - would the resultant league position mean the season was a failure?

Fact is that Derby are nowhere near good enough to sustain a promotion challenge, however much fun that run of good form was. We just don't have the players - and there's no cash to change that.

I see you saw the point of my post then Pete. I think that the situation that Nigel was referring to with the tough times ahead comment. There is a very real chance we can slip a ling way from the top 6 when postponed games are played.

[PeteDerby]

Shaun Barker wasn't cheap.. I don't see many other Championship clubs spending $1mill on a defender.. Not to mention Moxey..

And last summer, Brayford and Bailey weren't free.. Nor was the loan signing of Bueno but I take in to account the sale of Hulse..

Judging by the last 2 summers I don't have any doubts that NC will be able to spend roughly 1-1.5mill this summer.. Would gladly accept another 2 players in the mould of Brayford and Bailey..

This is without the free transfers too which we all know aren't exactly 'free'.

£900K IS cheap; whether you're looking at the going price for players, or our own transfer record.

And with regards what he has to spend, you seem to be overlooking that any incomings have been financed by lots and lots of exits. There's not much left to sell now!

[dcfcdavecov]

Just to say that the OP has picked quotes from the beginning of the interview.

A few more interesting quotes from the same article include:

"The next three or four months could be very difficult for us but there’s no reason why we can’t get back up towards there (the top six) between now and the end of the season."

â€Our aim, as it was at the start of the season, was to get ourselves established in that top half.

“We’ve not quite managed to do that but we think we can.â€

“We are all wrapped up in the here and now and the immediate results.

"We are in better condition as a club and the young players we’ve got give us a lot of optimism for the future."

If Clough was a forum poster, he'd probably be the best forum poster in the world.

[PeteDerby]

Show me cases where Clough has had deals denied to him by the board. The only one I can think of was McCormack, and his wages were on par with what Commons is rumoured to want now.

I do not believe him to be a liar, and I have my own reasons for believing certain things. The money is there for Nigel, we have been unlucky with some signings.

He got somewhere at Burton with a reasonable budget. Stoke did so, and Wolves. We are modelling ourselves on them. That is what we are aspiring too, big fees on selective players then loans and smart deals.

If we had spent money on Mackie, there may not have been enough for Hooper. We bid 'around double' for Hooper that we did for Barker. We do not have £2.5m-£3m a window, especially considering we'd already spent over £1m on the deal for Brayford and Bailey, add to that signing on fees for Cywka and Roberts and there's a large budget spent for a team aspiring for the top half. That would have been over £4m.

I think they know what they're doing, they're playing smart. But we need a striker soon, I agree with that. We have been unlucky with Hooper, and Vaughun especially, but we need to pull through on a deal.

Nothing to do with 'luck' Alex. We didn't offer the right money either transfer fee or wages-wise + and the club is not attractive enough because the game knows we don't have enough funding to mount a serious promotion challenge

I have my reasons for saying what I say do too. What Nigel says in public - as a consumate professional - isn't necessarily the full story.

Your confidence in GSE to come good is in some ways admirable. in others naive in swallowing all the spin.

But look, we've had these debates before. I've got a few more miles on the clock than you so, while youthful exhuberence is a fine thing, experience and common sense says to me that the empirical evidence points to an under-funded football club: Something that seldom ends in anything other than disapointment - which is all I' ve seen from GSE in 3 years.

[StaffsRam]

Just being picky but we are 5 points from play offs and he team in 6th have a game in hand on us to boot. Forest have 2 games in hand and if they win both if them they will be on 43 and in 6th so that makes possibly 8 to 9 points from play offs. Of course we play both of these 2 teams next in the league but even if we win them we could still be 5 or 6 points from the play off places. If we draw or lose these next 2 when the postponed games are all replayed we could well be over 10 points from 6th place.

That's what I get for not checking the league table for a few days!

Irrespective, we're still within touching distance of the playoffs, and we could easily force ourselves back into the playoff positions within another decent run. We've proven ourselves capable of some terrific football this season, and in certain games, especially when we had our purple patch, we destroyed in-form teams (Watford and Ssausagehorpe both had superb away records when they came to PP). What I'd like to see over the rest of the season, and what would give us the best chance of finishing as high as possible, is more consistency. A couple of experienced players could well be the difference. Personally, I'd like to see another playmaker like Commons, a decent keeper (Bywater's fine, but there are faults to his game, and he is prone to lapses of judgement), and another leftback - Roberts scares the **** out of me when we play him.

This is the poorest Championship that there's been in many a year. QPR aren't a great team, and they're top. Under them you have the likes of Cardiff, Swansea, Norwich, none of whom are unbeatable. What they're all proving is that modest investment goes a long way in this league.

Barker was 2 years ago, Bailey and Brayford was last summer, if we continue spending money at the rate of <£1m per season, we're never going to get a side together that's capable of challenging. IMO.

[dcfcdavecov]

That's what I get for not checking the league table for a few days!

Irrespective, we're still within touching distance of the playoffs, and we could easily force ourselves back into the playoff positions within another decent run. We've proven ourselves capable of some terrific football this season, and in certain games, especially when we had our purple patch, we destroyed in-form teams (Watford and Ssausagehorpe both had superb away records when they came to PP). What I'd like to see over the rest of the season, and what would give us the best chance of finishing as high as possible, is more consistency. A couple of experienced players could well be the difference. Personally, I'd like to see another playmaker like Commons, a decent keeper (Bywater's fine, but there are faults to his game, and he is prone to lapses of judgement), and another leftback - Roberts scares the **** out of me when we play him.

This is the poorest Championship that there's been in many a year. QPR aren't a great team, and they're top. Under them you have the likes of Cardiff, Swansea, Norwich, none of whom are unbeatable. What they're all proving is that modest investment goes a long way in this league.

Barker was 2 years ago, Bailey and Brayford was last summer, if we continue spending money at the rate of <£1m per season, we're never going to get a side together that's capable of challenging. IMO.

Think you might of cotradicted yourself a lickle bit.

[Duracell]

I'm surprised a thread's been made of this at all.

I find it laughable that anybody was expecting the 3 following seasons after being the worst team in English football history to be anything other than a struggle.

It's still amazing that we haven't been relegated again.

[StaffsRam]

Think you might of cotradicted yourself a lickle bit.

I don't think so, you've just highlighted the salient points

Clough worked a minor miracle in getting us to the playoffs, but that was proven to be unsustainable with his current squad.

We've had three periods of consistency this season, one good and two bad, if we're serious about mounting a sustained challenge, then we can't afford the kind of runs like the one at the beginning of the season or the one over Christmas.

Modest investment - no one's asking to break the bank, but another transfer window of exclusively loan activity isn't going to do the trick I fear.

[WilkoRam]

Not been around on here for a long time so not read a lot of the posts. I would like to think that if GSE were waiting to invest (or more accurately acquire the funds from the investors to invest) then this has to be the time otherwise I don't see it happening. The reason I say this is we have had a few seasons of belt tightening, the wage bill has been reduced and will do again this summer with the likes of Savage going and the size of the squad has been reduced. If we believe what we are told we should be pretty well run now in terms of balance sheets.

So maybe the investors were waiting for signs That their money would be invested into something good and worthwhile. I wouldn't blame them for seeing the results, and more importantly the style of play of the past few seasons and wondered if it would be worth the investment into something that the even the fans of the club didn't enjoy watching. That's surely changed now, the majority of this season we have seen some good, attacking, passing football that got us up to 4th and to 4th in style. If that's not enough to show where this team could go then nothing will be enough, bar a miracle.

And we won't need too much money. Personally I would like 3-4 players for next season (I don't see us making permanent signings this Jan). We need another striker, a centre back, a left back and a keeper. Our defence is my only real worry and money needs to be put in to rectify this. The only way we can keep a clean sheet is by being horrible and negative (basically going back to the last 2 seasons of play). That's because of who we have back there. Barker and Brayford are the only two players who I would say play well more often than they play bad.

Anyway I've rambled enough but like I say I've not been around for a while so please forgive the length of this, if you are indeed still reading.