blackNwhites Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 For crying out loud mate, it was the LOG that stablised the finances. Everything was manageable. The only reason GSE have had to sell off players and slash the wage bill is because a). They had a misguided policy of inflating it when they first came rather than paying out transfer fees and b). their supposed £50million takeover was somewhere between £20million to £30million light! I think people confuse GSE's excuses for not investing in the team and their spin on financial matters for hard facts. If you've never seen it before, read what the head of the outgoing board had to say about it, then ask yourself how different life would be as a Derby fan if they'd actually delivered:- http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Gadsby-says-money-let-buy-Rams/article-240136-detail/article.html It's a case of who to believe/who to deny. Like i say, i know NOTHING of the backroom 'happenings'. What do you know differently to me? I'm very interested to hear what you have to say because DCFC is of interest to me. It has been for as long as i can remember, it's a massive part of my life. If what Gadsby says is true, what the flip have people been doing? Boggles mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Mediocre to me defines mid-table championship. Sorry to oxford dictionary you but inless you are suggesting the players were sub-standard championship players then I simply don't agree. And I don't think they were. I would have expected mid-table at least. I was careful not to say good squad by the way, I said squad relegated with, one I thought should have been competitive on paper. On paper you think our relegated squad was in the bottom 3 of the championship interms of quality? I'd have said top 12 and I'm honestly not joking. Huge disparity in opinion here clearly. Don't give me hangover here, I want to know your opinion on paper. I certainly wouldn't have swapped our squad for a newly promoted team. I'd say any team from the Championship in the 07/08 season would have got at least 11 points in the Premier League. So yes, we were that poor. We looked a couple of divisions worse than every team in the Premier League. We really were that bad. And yes, I know what mediocre means. But when you rely on mediocre players to be your best players, you have a very, very poor team. I'm talking Nathan Ellington, Jordan Stewart, Martin Albrechtsen, Mile Sterjovski, Paul Conolly - players that might, just might, look ok in good sides but were supposed to be our good players. It had all the hallmarks of a relegation side. Not only that, but we'd paid ridiculous amounts for these players. Nathan Ellington would have been strutting around believing he was worth £1m for a season-long loan. We had Liam Dickinson who thought £750k was what he was worth to not even kick a ball for Derby County, a player who looked good - but not outstanding - in the bottom tier of the Football League. Ok, I agree that that squad may have been capable of a mid-table finish, but that was all it was ever going to do. Couple that with that cloud hanging over the club, a manager with questionable mental health, a packed home stadium that mysteriously lacks any atmosphere and then the news that we'd have to actually cut that awful squad and continue to make progress on the pitch, then it is no disgrace for us to have finished 18th and 14th respectively, in my opinion. And no, I don't think we're having a hangover still, but we still have a losing culture. It doesn't matter where it's come from, the point is we have one. We don't draw games. We play badly, we lose. We won enough games to be a top-half side but our inability to stop losing is what has prevented us from mounting any sort of challenge for promotion. Clough is right to say we are still in survival mode, and I'd say that's right in every single aspect of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And no, I don't think we're having a hangover still, but we still have a losing culture. It doesn't matter where it's come from, the point is we have one. We don't draw games. We play badly, we lose. We won enough games to be a top-half side but our inability to stop losing is what has prevented us from mounting any sort of challenge for promotion. Clough is right to say we are still in survival mode, and I'd say that's right in every single aspect of the club. That is a hangover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 That is a hangover. Our hangover was 2 seasons ago. We're now recovering from liver failure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Either that or they've got a different opinion to you Of course the manager says it's tough, ever manager is saying that. It's always tough, whoever the club. There is a difference between 'tough' and 'survival mode'. I won't disagree that they haven't stabled our finances but lets just take into account the past month or so when transfers have been mentioned. first of all, they were saying that they was trying to get a deal ready for commons which was admirable however then commons came out and said he wanted to stay, Clough wanted him to stay and the board hadn't done or said anything however to be fair, now it seems like an offer has been made but I wouldn't like to bet on the offer being a good one. then there was Clough a couple of days ago said we couldn't afford a good quality player so we would look towards loan deals from the premiership and the depressing bit other championship clubs. and now there is this, Clough warning the fans of a tough 4-5months where we will be in 'survival mode' which is baffling since we are so close to the play offs and in dire need of some investment, yet the noises coming from the club seem almost desperate. not to mention at the start of the year when Clough came out and said we couldn't afford proven players at this level, despite the board constantly spinning stories about players we simply cannot afford for instance Hooper, Sharp..etc I don't want to sound a doom monger but come the end of January and we still haven't replaced Hulse with a permanent striker what will the general masses make of it then, wait till the summer? if we lose Commons how are we possibly going to replace him? I think the summer will come as a shock to the general masses of believers because IF we lose Commons, we simply cannot replace him so we'll either get a loan player to paper over the cracks or tout another player in the squad to step up, giving that said player pressure to achieve the already substantial goal tally Commons has drafted up. I like optimism of people on here and it makes me chuckle when I see names like Pratley, Austin, Lambert, Steve Morrison, Hammill and Kightly. We couldn't even afford Moore and I know people on here didn't want him but I bet Cloughie wouldn't of minded him. I'm not trying to sound like I'm talking down to people but when you're asking for players that will cost 2million+ then IMO you're just ignoring every piece of evidence at the club and have an unbelievable amount of faith in a investment that to me seems fruitless, neither Derby or the Americans have gained anything from this. However if we do make a 2million pound signing or even a signing for a decent fee without losing a big player in the process, I'll hold my hands up.. infact I'll walk naked through the streets of Derby, you have my word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Our hangover was 2 seasons ago. We're now recovering from liver failure.... haha, good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Brazil Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Our hangover was 2 seasons ago. We're now recovering from liver failure.... I think enough of the excuses hangovers and what ever. Time for investment and lets get the rams back to the Prem and show them we are not to be taken lightly this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think enough of the excuses hangovers and what ever. Time for investment and lets get the rams back to the Prem and show them we are not to be taken lightly this time. Something tells me that Portugalram/BFB isn't all that keen on GSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Something tells me that Portugalram/BFB isn't all that keen on GSE. Ahh, we've got straight through to you, Detective Columbo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Brazil Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 There is a difference between 'tough' and 'survival mode'. I won't disagree that they haven't stabled our finances but lets just take into account the past month or so when transfers have been mentioned. first of all, they were saying that they was trying to get a deal ready for commons which was admirable however then commons came out and said he wanted to stay, Clough wanted him to stay and the board hadn't done or said anything however to be fair, now it seems like an offer has been made but I wouldn't like to bet on the offer being a good one. then there was Clough a couple of days ago said we couldn't afford a good quality player so we would look towards loan deals from the premiership and the depressing bit other championship clubs. and now there is this, Clough warning the fans of a tough 4-5months where we will be in 'survival mode' which is baffling since we are so close to the play offs and in dire need of some investment, yet the noises coming from the club seem almost desperate. not to mention at the start of the year when Clough came out and said we couldn't afford proven players at this level, despite the board constantly spinning stories about players we simply cannot afford for instance Hooper, Sharp..etc I don't want to sound a doom monger but come the end of January and we still haven't replaced Hulse with a permanent striker what will the general masses make of it then, wait till the summer? if we lose Commons how are we possibly going to replace him? I think the summer will come as a shock to the general masses of believers because IF we lose Commons, we simply cannot replace him so we'll either get a loan player to paper over the cracks or tout another player in the squad to step up, giving that said player pressure to achieve the already substantial goal tally Commons has drafted up. I like optimism of people on here and it makes me chuckle when I see names like Pratley, Austin, Lambert, Steve Morrison, Hammill and Kightly. We couldn't even afford Moore and I know people on here didn't want him but I bet Cloughie wouldn't of minded him. I'm not trying to sound like I'm talking down to people but when you're asking for players that will cost 2million+ then IMO you're just ignoring every piece of evidence at the club and have an unbelievable amount of faith in a investment that to me seems fruitless, neither Derby or the Americans have gained anything from this. However if we do make a 2million pound signing or even a signing for a decent fee without losing a big player in the process, I'll hold my hands up.. infact I'll walk naked through the streets of Derby, you have my word. It all comes across as what is happening at Derby County FC????? whos saying what? who wants what? who is in charge? how much have we got to spend? All the false promises and then Clough (who i support and love and want to see his name as manager when we are back in the prem) sending out all these mixed signals very weird indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Brazil Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Something tells me that Portugalram/BFB isn't all that keen on GSE. Dont get me started Duracell mate:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 There is a difference between 'tough' and 'survival mode'. I won't disagree that they haven't stabled our finances but lets just take into account the past month or so when transfers have been mentioned. first of all, they were saying that they was trying to get a deal ready for commons which was admirable however then commons came out and said he wanted to stay, Clough wanted him to stay and the board hadn't done or said anything however to be fair, now it seems like an offer has been made but I wouldn't like to bet on the offer being a good one. then there was Clough a couple of days ago said we couldn't afford a good quality player so we would look towards loan deals from the premiership and the depressing bit other championship clubs. and now there is this, Clough warning the fans of a tough 4-5months where we will be in 'survival mode' which is baffling since we are so close to the play offs and in dire need of some investment, yet the noises coming from the club seem almost desperate. not to mention at the start of the year when Clough came out and said we couldn't afford proven players at this level, despite the board constantly spinning stories about players we simply cannot afford for instance Hooper, Sharp..etc I don't want to sound a doom monger but come the end of January and we still haven't replaced Hulse with a permanent striker what will the general masses make of it then, wait till the summer? if we lose Commons how are we possibly going to replace him? I think the summer will come as a shock to the general masses of believers because IF we lose Commons, we simply cannot replace him so we'll either get a loan player to paper over the cracks or tout another player in the squad to step up, giving that said player pressure to achieve the already substantial goal tally Commons has drafted up. I like optimism of people on here and it makes me chuckle when I see names like Pratley, Austin, Lambert, Steve Morrison, Hammill and Kightly. We couldn't even afford Moore and I know people on here didn't want him but I bet Cloughie wouldn't of minded him. I'm not trying to sound like I'm talking down to people but when you're asking for players that will cost 2million+ then IMO you're just ignoring every piece of evidence at the club and have an unbelievable amount of faith in a investment that to me seems fruitless, neither Derby or the Americans have gained anything from this. However if we do make a 2million pound signing or even a signing for a decent fee without losing a big player in the process, I'll hold my hands up.. infact I'll walk naked through the streets of Derby, you have my word. Where has he said this, may I ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well to be fair Duracell you make your point well and I see what you are saying and others but I'm of the opposite train of thought. I just cringe whenever I hear "crisis of confidence" and "hangover" etc. I feel they are just poor excuses for failure, particularly considering turnover of management and playing staff. I don't buy into a dreadful season spoiling the next, it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't see why football in this respect is any different to any other walk of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Brazil Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 For crying out loud mate, it was the LOG that stablised the finances. Everything was manageable. The only reason GSE have had to sell off players and slash the wage bill is because a). They had a misguided policy of inflating it when they first came rather than paying out transfer fees and b). their supposed £50million takeover was somewhere between £20million to £30million light! I think people confuse GSE's excuses for not investing in the team and their spin on financial matters for hard facts. If you've never seen it before, read what the head of the outgoing board had to say about it, then ask yourself how different life would be as a Derby fan if they'd actually delivered:- http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Gadsby-says-money-let-buy-Rams/article-240136-detail/article.html Thought this bit of a Quote was interesting Pete.... Quote: Gadsby’s statement outlined a number of specific concerns. He said: “On several occasions after the takeover, Adam Pearson [Rams’ chairman of football]maintained publicly that the club would go forward “free of debt†as the result of the investment of “substantial new monies†and it was announced that a takeover worth £50m included £10m for new signings. “From the outset, I expressed my unhappiness that such were being made without corroboration and was told that corrected figures would be forthcoming later, when all possible sources of new investment had been explored.†Rams president and chief executive Tom Glick said, as a policy, the club had chosen not to comment on the acquisition price. End Quote: Love all this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Thought this bit of a Quote was interesting Pete.... Quote: Gadsby’s statement outlined a number of specific concerns. He said: “On several occasions after the takeover, Adam Pearson [Rams’ chairman of football]maintained publicly that the club would go forward “free of debt†as the result of the investment of “substantial new monies†and it was announced that a takeover worth £50m included £10m for new signings. “From the outset, I expressed my unhappiness that such were being made without corroboration and was told that corrected figures would be forthcoming later, when all possible sources of new investment had been explored.†Rams president and chief executive Tom Glick said, as a policy, the club had chosen not to comment on the acquisition price. End Quote: Love all this.... Lets get picky. But the Rams club statement continued: “Supporters should be in no doubt that the current financial position of Derby County is secure and growing. Significant investment has been made and significant investment will follow in the future. “It is becoming tiresome to continually refute unfounded allegations, which serve only to create a sense of instability at a time when important work is taking place to improve Derby County and create a stable and prosperous future.†I would love to hear from somebody actually involved. If you're out there, put the fans out of their misery FFS. This has dragged on long enough and only serves to supply negative 'support' across the club. Anybody out there who REALLY knows what is going on? Until i hear from you, all this is conspiracy theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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