Cardiff (H) - Match thread

[HorsforthRam]

20 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Just got round to watching this.

First half was excellent and honestly I thought in some ways better than the Bristol performance. Building on those positive signs. Noticeably we were trying to play our way out far more, less aimless punts and some of the linkup play was sublime at times, I think with that fraction extra sharpness I think we'd have put them to the sword here. Kenzo and Yates were real standouts, the two of them are quickly raising up the list of individual players that I've most enjoyed watching play for us. I may be one of the biggest proponents for possession based football on here but when I'm talking about it I'm not necessarily talking just keeping it for the sake but more that we look like we care about having the ball and recycle it when something isn't on. That's the big shift I'm seeing in this first half performance and against Bristol is a shift towards going quickly when it's on and then showing some patience if it isn't. I think it's a fantastic sign that our first 11 can play good football and be very competitive in the division. 

Second half though.... in some ways I'm not sure to make of it. I suspect I'll be more negative than some about it because I honestly feel that Cardiff weren't terrible we could have easily been in trouble. All the positives I was talking about above went out the window and we looked every bit the recent promoted league 1 wanting to play the percentages and try to hold onto the lead. I'm not sure how much was tactical, how much was down to player responding to the game situation and how much was the enforced change. 

With Ozoh going we seemed to completely lose the ability to play through the midfield. Adams brought in a deeper role was punting possession away left and right and players were reluctant to move the ball through him, it has to be said that whilst he's truly excellent out of possession he's a liability in it. Shifting so he was the sole pivot means the ball kinda has to go through him and it just couldn't. Osborn wasn't much help either both slow to react to get into space for the pass and sloppy in possession. It was noticeable how we tried to keep playing the same way for about 10 minutes before giving up, with nerves visibly spreading through the team. Which meant we started play long aimless balls to a 5ft9 striker. I don't how much of this shift was tactical from the bench versus how much was a team getting the jitters with a slender lead but it needed to be addressed quickly. This has had the following impact that we tired faster and first time in the past two games it started to get easy to cut through the middle. We did try to address it in some ways by shifting to a back 3 but that felt more like tackling the symptom of 'Cardiff are on top' versus the root cause of losing our ability to progress with the ball and in anyway retain it. I think some changes needed to come earlier and I think needed to be another striker coming on instead of forsyth, nyambe going off and either Harness coming on at RWB or Ward coming on.

My main concern is how singularly disruptive losing Ozoh was and what we do about it going forwards because based on this game it can't just be swap him for Osborn and move Adams further back. It's not something that I think can be cleanly solved either.

On a brighter note:

- The connection building between the front 3 and Goudmijn is exciting to watch. Give them a platform and I think they'll be hard for any team to stop.

- It's outrageous how consistently Yates can open a defence with a flick.

- Goudmijn's confidence is growing and it's going to be fun to see exactly how high a level he can reach for us. There were several moments throughout the game were I thought to myself how the hell did nobody else snatch him up.

- Zetterstrom's reactions and awareness are fantastic. I'm not talking purely making saves either  but there were a couple moments where his fast reaction to danger snuffed out it out (when Cashin got caught and when the ball didn't go out and nobody reacted).

- The connection on our left hand side is really promising to see, it's noticeable how we can work a dangerous attack between Cashin, Elder, NML and Yates. 

 

Great post. Exactly how I saw it and how I felt after Ozoh went off. 👌🏾

[On the Ram Page]

24 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Just got round to watching this.

First half was excellent and honestly I thought in some ways better than the Bristol performance. Building on those positive signs. Noticeably we were trying to play our way out far more, less aimless punts and some of the linkup play was sublime at times, I think with that fraction extra sharpness I think we'd have put them to the sword here. Kenzo and Yates were real standouts, the two of them are quickly raising up the list of individual players that I've most enjoyed watching play for us. I may be one of the biggest proponents for possession based football on here but when I'm talking about it I'm not necessarily talking just keeping it for the sake but more that we look like we care about having the ball and recycle it when something isn't on. That's the big shift I'm seeing in this first half performance and against Bristol is a shift towards going quickly when it's on and then showing some patience if it isn't. I think it's a fantastic sign that our first 11 can play good football and be very competitive in the division. 

Second half though.... in some ways I'm not sure to make of it. I suspect I'll be more negative than some about it because I honestly feel that Cardiff weren't terrible we could have easily been in trouble. All the positives I was talking about above went out the window and we looked every bit the recent promoted league 1 wanting to play the percentages and try to hold onto the lead. I'm not sure how much was tactical, how much was down to player responding to the game situation and how much was the enforced change. 

With Ozoh going we seemed to completely lose the ability to play through the midfield. Adams brought in a deeper role was punting possession away left and right and players were reluctant to move the ball through him, it has to be said that whilst he's truly excellent out of possession he's a liability in it. Shifting so he was the sole pivot means the ball kinda has to go through him and it just couldn't. Osborn wasn't much help either both slow to react to get into space for the pass and sloppy in possession. It was noticeable how we tried to keep playing the same way for about 10 minutes before giving up, with nerves visibly spreading through the team. Which meant we started play long aimless balls to a 5ft9 striker. I don't how much of this shift was tactical from the bench versus how much was a team getting the jitters with a slender lead but it needed to be addressed quickly. This has had the following impact that we tired faster and first time in the past two games it started to get easy to cut through the middle. We did try to address it in some ways by shifting to a back 3 but that felt more like tackling the symptom of 'Cardiff are on top' versus the root cause of losing our ability to progress with the ball and in anyway retain it. I think some changes needed to come earlier and I think needed to be another striker coming on instead of forsyth, nyambe going off and either Harness coming on at RWB or Ward coming on.

My main concern is how singularly disruptive losing Ozoh was and what we do about it going forwards because based on this game it can't just be swap him for Osborn and move Adams further back. It's not something that I think can be cleanly solved either.

On a brighter note:

- The connection building between the front 3 and Goudmijn is exciting to watch. Give them a platform and I think they'll be hard for any team to stop.

- It's outrageous how consistently Yates can open a defence with a flick.

- Goudmijn's confidence is growing and it's going to be fun to see exactly how high a level he can reach for us. There were several moments throughout the game were I thought to myself how the hell did nobody else snatch him up.

- Zetterstrom's reactions and awareness are fantastic. I'm not talking purely making saves either  but there were a couple moments where his fast reaction to danger snuffed out it out (when Cashin got caught and when the ball didn't go out and nobody reacted).

- The connection on our left hand side is really promising to see, it's noticeable how we can work a dangerous attack between Cashin, Elder, NML and Yates. 

 

I agree with you to a large extent but the loss of Ozolins was very disappointing. As in the last two seasons, we haven’t been bullied in midfield because of the physical presence of Adam’s & Ozoh, leaving Kenzo to do what he does. Unfortunately, I do not think we have a like for like replacement until Ozoh is fit again (Fornah may have been the man). Despite losing him, we still made some opportunities 2nd half to seal the game. I don’t think Ozoh had his best game on Saturday and got caught in possession a few times and had a right battle with Corwell who was their best player. We still missed his physical presence when he went off.

I think losing Ozoh for a while may Bering about a change in system and wouldn’t be surprised to change to 3 at the back, with Phillips coming in to play with Nelson & Cashin. I do hope that we still keep Nyambe in the side though, even if he is more limited moving forward. 
 

It’s a shame because we had become such a cohesive unit.

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

I agree with you to a large extent but the loss of Ozolins was very disappointing. As in the last two seasons, we haven’t been bullied in midfield because of the physical presence of Adam’s & Ozoh, leaving Kenzo to do what he does. Unfortunately, I do not think we have a like for like replacement until Ozoh is fit again (Fornah may have been the man). Despite losing him, we still made some opportunities 2nd half to seal the game. I don’t think Ozoh had his best game on Saturday and got caught in possession a few times and had a right battle with Corwell who was their best player. We still missed his physical presence when he went off.

I think losing Ozoh for a while may Bering about a change in system and wouldn’t be surprised to change to 3 at the back, with Phillips coming in to play with Nelson & Cashin. I do hope that we still keep Nyambe in the side though, even if he is more limited moving forward. 
 

It’s a shame because we had become such a cohesive unit.

Whilst not at his best perhaps Ozoh was reliable on the ball, was getting into position to get the ball from the defence and importantly the defence could trust him with the ball. Essentially with him things could flow out of the defence through the midfield and they couldn't after that. We did create bits and pieces but we are going to do that with the creativity we have but we completely lost control of the game. His physicality was something of a miss but I do think it's much more we just lost the ability to have any sense of ball retention.

You are right in that we can't replace like for like and I do think it creates a bit of dilemma. To continue to play the way we have you need another ball player somewhere in a deep position (or at least willing to drop into a deep position) and you need a way that you can bypass Adams in possession. 

My gut feeling is that like you suggested Warne will shift to a back 3 because of the opposition, the loss of Ozoh and that we've not brought in Phillips to sit on the bench. It does create further headaches though down stream:

343

- With a 343 typically the front 3 need to play narrower than a 433 as there isn't the same support from midfield. And we've had a lot of joy from placing NML and Jackson as wide as we can. They might be better closer together or they might get crowded out. Maybe you can get clever with inverted wingbacks but it'd need thought.

- Goudmijn would be more restricted in a 2 and will likely have less freedom to roam to hurt team. Again a wing back tucking and staying disciplined could help here but you'd need someone comfortable on the ball probably.

- Adams has less freedom to go aggressively press in a 2

- Nyambe likely has to be dropped despite doing well.

352

- The issue here is pretty obvious in that you'd likely have to drop one of Jackson or NML

- Nyambe again probably gets dropped

- Osborn would likely get the nod in midfield but hasn't really showed much so far to make restructuring appealing.

 

Personally what I'd be tempted by is to shift to 4231 and bring Thompson in (if fit) instead of Osborn as Thompson seems much more comfortable at getting on the ball than Osborn has so far. Or going for something like 

           Nelson   Phillips   Cashin

Ward*   Goudmijn    Adams    Osborn

       Jackson     Yates     NML

With the idea of the wingbacks holding position in midfield a bit more. *I think Ward is better in possession in Wilson but I could be off base on this one. It'd be harsh on a few players and I admit it's experimental. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

Just got round to watching this.

First half was excellent and honestly I thought in some ways better than the Bristol performance. Building on those positive signs. Noticeably we were trying to play our way out far more, less aimless punts and some of the linkup play was sublime at times, I think with that fraction extra sharpness I think we'd have put them to the sword here. Kenzo and Yates were real standouts, the two of them are quickly raising up the list of individual players that I've most enjoyed watching play for us. I may be one of the biggest proponents for possession based football on here but when I'm talking about it I'm not necessarily talking just keeping it for the sake but more that we look like we care about having the ball and recycle it when something isn't on. That's the big shift I'm seeing in this first half performance and against Bristol is a shift towards going quickly when it's on and then showing some patience if it isn't. I think it's a fantastic sign that our first 11 can play good football and be very competitive in the division. 

Second half though.... in some ways I'm not sure to make of it. I suspect I'll be more negative than some about it because I honestly feel that Cardiff weren't terrible we could have easily been in trouble. All the positives I was talking about above went out the window and we looked every bit the recent promoted league 1 wanting to play the percentages and try to hold onto the lead. I'm not sure how much was tactical, how much was down to player responding to the game situation and how much was the enforced change. 

With Ozoh going we seemed to completely lose the ability to play through the midfield. Adams brought in a deeper role was punting possession away left and right and players were reluctant to move the ball through him, it has to be said that whilst he's truly excellent out of possession he's a liability in it. Shifting so he was the sole pivot means the ball kinda has to go through him and it just couldn't. Osborn wasn't much help either both slow to react to get into space for the pass and sloppy in possession. It was noticeable how we tried to keep playing the same way for about 10 minutes before giving up, with nerves visibly spreading through the team. Which meant we started play long aimless balls to a 5ft9 striker. I don't how much of this shift was tactical from the bench versus how much was a team getting the jitters with a slender lead but it needed to be addressed quickly. This has had the following impact that we tired faster and first time in the past two games it started to get easy to cut through the middle. We did try to address it in some ways by shifting to a back 3 but that felt more like tackling the symptom of 'Cardiff are on top' versus the root cause of losing our ability to progress with the ball and in anyway retain it. I think some changes needed to come earlier and I think needed to be another striker coming on instead of forsyth, nyambe going off and either Harness coming on at RWB or Ward coming on.

My main concern is how singularly disruptive losing Ozoh was and what we do about it going forwards because based on this game it can't just be swap him for Osborn and move Adams further back. It's not something that I think can be cleanly solved either.

On a brighter note:

- The connection building between the front 3 and Goudmijn is exciting to watch. Give them a platform and I think they'll be hard for any team to stop.

- It's outrageous how consistently Yates can open a defence with a flick.

- Goudmijn's confidence is growing and it's going to be fun to see exactly how high a level he can reach for us. There were several moments throughout the game were I thought to myself how the hell did nobody else snatch him up.

- Zetterstrom's reactions and awareness are fantastic. I'm not talking purely making saves either  but there were a couple moments where his fast reaction to danger snuffed out it out (when Cashin got caught and when the ball didn't go out and nobody reacted).

- The connection on our left hand side is really promising to see, it's noticeable how we can work a dangerous attack between Cashin, Elder, NML and Yates. 

 

At the start of the season, I ddin't expect Ozoh to be so influencial to our play. I was actually expecting him to be battling with Adams for that DM spot. However, the last few games has convinced me that Adams is better as the box to box LCM. It also means we should be looking at a stronger backup for the role Ozoh now has as we've seen the big difference in just the 45 minutes vs Cardiff. That signing would now be my 2nd priority (behind a CF), overtakign the need for a LB/LWB

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

At the start of the season, I ddin't expect Ozoh to be so influencial to our play. I was actually expecting him to be battling with Adams for that DM spot. However, the last few games has convinced me that Adams is better as the box to box LCM. It also means we should be looking at a stronger backup for the role Ozoh now has as we've seen the big difference in just the 45 minutes vs Cardiff. That signing would now be my 2nd priority (behind a CF), overtakign the need for a LB/LWB

I think I'd agree with that broadly. But I think it does depend on whether we are going ahead with 433. (Which I think we likely should). Adams played as a box a box just suits his strengths better and its easier to minimise his difficulties.

[MaltRam]

Slot Phillips in for Ozoh. Crack on.

[Dimmu]

18 hours ago, MaltRam said:

Slot Phillips in for Ozoh. Crack on.

It's a tough call. I'd be tempted to start Phillips too. At the same time, Osborn might wonder why he signed for us if he doesn't get a start even when one of the starting trio is missing.

[valakari]

So much for modern technology and the evolution of the game...we used to play the same 11 week in week out...now they can't manage 90 minutes..and if they do, they miss the next 2 or 3 games.

What is wrong..i suspect the training methods..they get run into the ground.

It would be nice to see all our best players available for selection every week..then we might get some consistancy.

[Jourdan]

I think Ozoh will be a massive miss in midfield. Playing him and Adams together just gives us the solid foundations we need and brings the kind of balance that allows others to play their natural game.

Hopefully we are in the process of looking for his long term replacement for when he returns to Palace, be it in January or June. Maybe ASI in the Academy was signed with a view to being his successor.

In the meantime, I think maybe we’ll look at going back to the 3-5-2 that we ended last season with as we are going into a tough run of games where we’ll be tested defensively and this formation might protect players that would get exposed in a 4-3-3 without Ozoh and help us to grind out some valuable points.

Bringing in Phillips and Osborn seems the most logical step and this also gives us the opportunity to bring Mendez Laing off the bench with Harness, which will give us the chance to not only manage NML’s minutes but also to be braver from the bench and bring on added threat later in the game against tired legs.

[Comrade 86]

You'd probably want to have a look at it in training, but assuming he can adapt to the role, I'd be playing the same side with Philips in for Ozoh. Failing that, Osborn is the obvious call.

I'm not sure about playing 3 CBs as I'm not convinced it adds anything defensively. We did finish the season well last year playing a back 3, but Nyambe and Elder are also looking as good as they ever have right now so, I'd not be tinkering myself. 

Rest of the side picks itself.

[MaltRam]

43 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

You'd probably want to have a look at it in training, but assuming he can adapt to the role, I'd be playing the same side with Philips in for Ozoh. Failing that, Osborn is the obvious call.

I'm not sure about playing 3 CBs as I'm not convinced it adds anything defensively. We did finish the season well last year playing a back 3, but Nyambe and Elder are also looking as good as they ever have right now so, I'd not be tinkering myself. 

Rest of the side picks itself.

Key point for me, Elder and Nyambe have been exceptionally good. Why make multiple changes for one?

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, valakari said:

So much for modern technology and the evolution of the game...we used to play the same 11 week in week out...now they can't manage 90 minutes..and if they do, they miss the next 2 or 3 games.

What is wrong..i suspect the training methods..they get run into the ground.

It would be nice to see all our best players available for selection every week..then we might get some consistancy.

When was that? The days when players were injected every week to get them through games, only to be crippled with arthritis by their 50s?

Some people said last season that players would be breaking down 2/3 through the season because of Warne's training regime. What actually happened was we were the fittest team in the division going into the final 15 games of the season.

It's not as if we have an extensive injury list ATM.

[HorsforthRam]

Who was the lad in the U21s last season that played in the pizza cup that tried a shot from the halfway line? (Not a lot of info I know 😂)

[LeedsCityRam]

14 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

Who was the lad in the U21s last season that played in the pizza cup that tried a shot from the halfway line? (Not a lot of info I know 😂)

Fapetu? I think he's left now, disappointing as thought he was a prospect.

[HorsforthRam]

15 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Fapetu? I think he's left now, disappointing as thought he was a prospect.

Yeah, that’s the lad. Surprised as I thought the same as you…

[valakari]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

When was that? The days when players were injected every week to get them through games, only to be crippled with arthritis by their 50s?

Some people said last season that players would be breaking down 2/3 through the season because of Warne's training regime. What actually happened was we were the fittest team in the division going into the final 15 games of the season.

It's not as if we have an extensive injury list ATM.

Ozoh, Rooney, Wilson, Thompson, CBT...and then there is Washington, Ward, Elder & Osborne, who are always injured for most of the season..thats quite extensive to me...

[Crewton]

7 hours ago, valakari said:

Ozoh, Rooney, Wilson, Thompson, CBT...and then there is Washington, Ward, Elder & Osborne, who are always injured for most of the season..thats quite extensive to me...

Only Ozoh, Rooney and Thompson are currently injured? The others are currently fit.

Rooney's original cruciate injury occurred during a game, as did Ward's heel injury. Ozoh's hammy went in the second half on Saturday after a tackle iirc. CBT had an injury when he arrived which appears to have been hard to shift.

Some posters keep saying this, but I've yet to see compelling evidence that the training regime is the issue with any particular injuries. It's simply become a trope, just like "players don't want to sign for Warne".