The Football Creditor rule is explicit, simple, and solves all of Derby's issues

[kevinhectoring]

29 minutes ago, DerbysLane said:

Probably the worst thing to happen would be for MM to take this to court.  It is clear Gibson's issue is with MM and he will pursue legal action until the bitter end if MM is funding it or even providing the evidence for dcfc.  It will drag out for years.

You’ve misunderstood. They suggestion from many has been that MM steps in, indemnifies the club against all costs of the M/W claims, and takes control of the proceedings. We need to call M/W’s bluff and this is one way to do it 

[Grumpy Git]

If Boro's claim was to succeed, can we assume that in the strange world of football, a 'Gibson' would become the new Bosman?

[Day]

20 minutes ago, DerbysLane said:

You can read the appeal here https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2002/1929.html&query=(title:(+Liverpool+))+AND+(title:(+MIDDLESBOROUGH+)) .  It was settled out of court like Tevez.

It doesn't set a precedent for what is or isn't a football creditor from what I can see (although I'm no lawyer).  But it does demonstrate the possibility that compensation could be paid to clubs.  And that sort of gives the possibility that Middlesbrough could be a football creditor in the future.

Interesting read and that Rick Parry has had previous going head to head with Boro in court, didn't realise he was there at the time and they had previous.

Below is amazing, you would think they had a Cristiano Ronaldo taken from them. £778k loss of ticket revenue because they lost the skill of left wing back Zeige, would love to know how they worked that out to the penny. 

It's just staggering what they will try and claim, and all this was built on Liverpool tapping him up, bidding exactly £5.5m, his release clause. Don't put it in there in the first place! His agent could have easily gone to Liverpool, my player is unhappy, would you be interested, it will cost you £5.5m, not telling me this doesn't happen all over.

The further or alternative claim is based on the assumption that Mr Zeige would have remained at Middlesborough, and it sets out losses which Middlesborough say they suffered through losing his skills for the 2000/2001 season. The total of these losses is put at marginally over £5.5 million, and includes such claims as £1,345,688 for the loss of a merit award, the amount Middlesborough would have received had they finished the 2000/2001 season four places higher than in the event, without Mr Zeige, they did; £778,855 for loss of gate receipts; £22,202 for loss of profit on ancillary sales; £1,569,000 for the loss of TV facility fees, a sum calculated on the basis that whereas during the 1999/2000 season there were six live broadcasts of Middlesborough's matches in 2000/2001 there were only three; and £809,279 being the cost of seeking to mitigate their loss by employing Mr Terry Venables as an additional coach in an effort to reverse the decline in Middlesborough's performances through Mr Zeige's departure

[Day]

20 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

@i-ram  you’ll get lots of claps and likes for this and yes my posts along these lines will get angry faces. But forget the popularity contest, you need to apply your not inconsiderable brainpower to working out what does and does not further our club’s interests. The EFl quite simply can’t do what you/@david  are asking and they have explained that to you in a statement that was literally aimed at this thread (and at others). The enemy - forget MM, he’s old news  - is M and W and they are making life difficult for the EFL as well as intolerable for us.  We need EFL’s  support. We will not get it if Q slag them off and not will we get it if @Davidrallies the troops against them under false pretences 

Incorrect, the EFL can if they choose to, but so far unwilling, the administrators are working with them to clarify this.

This is also not rallying troops under false pretences, we have local MPs and as I say the administrators pushing them on the same exact point, read what has come out the latest Supporters Charter Group meeting.

You're trying to paint me as the bad guy here for winding up the EFL which I find utterly bizarre in all honesty.

You might disagree with this approach, however like it or not, it's one that the administrators are looking to pursue and rather than trying to walk on egg shells around the EFL, we should be looking to assist the administrators in anyway we can to help apply the pressure on this specific point that can allow us to move on.

Source link: https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/scg-quantuma-meeting-thursday-20th-january-2022-11am-via-ms-teams/

[Rev]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Interesting read and that Rick Parry has had previous going head to head with Boro in court, didn't realise he was there at the time and they had previous.

Below is amazing, you would think they had a Cristiano Ronaldo taken from them. £778k loss of ticket revenue because they lost the skill of left wing back Zeige, would love to know how they worked that out to the penny. 

It's just staggering what they will try and claim, and all this was built on Liverpool tapping him up, bidding exactly £5.5m, his release clause. Don't put it in there in the first place! His agent could have easily gone to Liverpool, my player is unhappy, would you be interested, it will cost you £5.5m, not telling me this doesn't happen all over.

The further or alternative claim is based on the assumption that Mr Zeige would have remained at Middlesborough, and it sets out losses which Middlesborough say they suffered through losing his skills for the 2000/2001 season. The total of these losses is put at marginally over £5.5 million, and includes such claims as £1,345,688 for the loss of a merit award, the amount Middlesborough would have received had they finished the 2000/2001 season four places higher than in the event, without Mr Zeige, they did; £778,855 for loss of gate receipts; £22,202 for loss of profit on ancillary sales; £1,569,000 for the loss of TV facility fees, a sum calculated on the basis that whereas during the 1999/2000 season there were six live broadcasts of Middlesborough's matches in 2000/2001 there were only three; and £809,279 being the cost of seeking to mitigate their loss by employing Mr Terry Venables as an additional coach in an effort to reverse the decline in Middlesborough's performances through Mr Zeige's departure

In fairness Liverpool conquered Europe after Ziege's signing. 

Nearly two decades later, but he was a building block, despite only serving one season before being sold.

[Rev]

27 minutes ago, europia said:

Not talking about a QC stating the case for DCFC, that counts for very little (other than educated opinion). The point is, should Boro and Wycombe decide to pursue this through the court, DCFC (new owners) should be very confident in defending such a weak case. 

What court? 

They literally can't pursue this through the court, only through a tribunal, which is their entire case.

 

[uttoxram75]

26 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

@i-ram  you’ll get lots of claps and likes for this and yes my posts along these lines will get angry faces. But forget the popularity contest, you need to apply your not inconsiderable brainpower to working out what does and does not further our club’s interests. The EFl quite simply can’t do what you/@david  are asking and they have explained that to you in a statement that was literally aimed at this thread (and at others). The enemy - forget MM, he’s old news  - is M and W and they are making life difficult for the EFL as well as intolerable for us.  We need EFL’s  support. We will not get it if Q slag them off and not will we get it if @Davidrallies the troops against them under false pretences 

I think you misunderstand Rick Parry's collusion with Steve Gibson. Parry has promised Gibson he'll sort Derby out. Parry is too scared to go against Gibson.

Its a personal, private vendetta from Gibson toward Morris that Parry has sided with Gibson on.

[Day]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Incorrect, the EFL can if they choose to, but so far unwilling, the administrators are working with them to clarify this.

This is also not rallying troops under false pretences, we have local MPs and as I say the administrators pushing them on the same exact point, read what has come out the latest Supporters Charter Group meeting.

You're trying to paint me as the bad guy here for winding up the EFL which I find utterly bizarre in all honesty.

You might disagree with this approach, however like it or not, it's one that the administrators are looking to pursue and rather than trying to walk on egg shells around the EFL, we should be looking to assist the administrators in anyway we can to help apply the pressure on this specific point that can allow us to move on.

Source link: https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/scg-quantuma-meeting-thursday-20th-january-2022-11am-via-ms-teams/

Just another point I wish to make @kevinhectoring, I created this topic at 12pm, by which point all the MPs were in the House of Commons, I am fairly positive in saying this, that Toby Perkins, one of the MP's which raised this specific issue was not aware this topic existed on the forum.

I tweeted 3 MP's a link to this topic at 12.24pm, the 3 MP's were Amanda Solloway, Heather Wheeler and Pauline Latham, all of which had been in contact with the administrators prior to the session in House of Commons.

If you think I am personally responsible for this, I disagree, do I believe this topic has helped raise awareness to the issue, yes I do. The truth is, this is something that the administrators were already clearly aware of and actively pursuing.

[kevinhectoring]

16 minutes ago, David said:

Incorrect, the EFL can if they choose to, but so far unwilling, the administrators are working with them to clarify this.

I explained in quite a detailed post above why I believe EFl can’t do this.  They have also explained why.
Let’s leave this now I don’t think I will change your thinking 

[Day]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

I explained in quite a detailed post above why I believe EFl can’t do this.  They have also explained why.
Let’s leave this now I don’t think I will change your thinking 

Absolutely, not looking to argue with anyone on here, the situation is draining enough as it is, this is a time to come together.

We disagree and that's fine, would like to think I have acknowledged your thought process, I just believe there is a difference between can't and won't that's all.

[kevinhectoring]

11 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

think you misunderstand Rick Parry's collusion with Steve Gibson. Parry has promised Gibson he'll sort Derby out. Parry is too scared to go against Gibson.

Its a personal, private vendetta from Gibson toward Morris that Parry has sided with Gibson on.

I listened quite carefully to the Athletic podcast today. I agree with you that Gibson has a personal vendetta against Morris. You say them at Parry has ‘sided’ with Gibson. I don’t see any evidence that the motivation behind the EFL’s position is that they want to support Gibson. None at all. Do you? If so what is it? 

[uttoxram75]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

I listened quite carefully to the Athletic podcast today. I agree with you that Gibson has a personal vendetta against Morris. You say them at Parry has ‘sided’ with Gibson. I don’t see any evidence that the motivation behind the EFL’s position is that they want to support Gibson. None at all. Do you? If so what is it? 

The well documented fact that Parry told Gibson to sue DCFC instead of the EFL.

[uttoxram75]

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I listened quite carefully to the Athletic podcast today. I agree with you that Gibson has a personal vendetta against Morris. You say them at Parry has ‘sided’ with Gibson. I don’t see any evidence that the motivation behind the EFL’s position is that they want to support Gibson. None at all. Do you? If so what is it? 

Also, Gibson must have access to Parry's hard drive to have so much control over him.

Gibson is a bully who has previous for throwing his wealth around threatening to sue all and sundry.

Parry is a coward, a middle manager type who likes to bully those below him but tugs his forelock to those more powerful.

 

[kevinhectoring]

22 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

The well documented fact is that Parry told Gibson to sue DCFC instead of the EFL.

No it’s not

Edited January 20, 2022 by kevinhectoring

[uttoxram75]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

No it’s not

Apologies. Parry wouldn't have told him.

He would have begged him.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

@i-ram  you’ll get lots of claps and likes for this and yes my posts along these lines will get angry faces. But forget the popularity contest, you need to apply your not inconsiderable brainpower to working out what does and does not further our club’s interests. The EFl quite simply can’t do what you/@david  are asking and they have explained that to you in a statement that was literally aimed at this thread (and at others). The enemy - forget MM, he’s old news  - is M and W and they are making life difficult for the EFL as well as intolerable for us.  We need EFL’s  support. We will not get it if Q slag them off and not will we get it if @Davidrallies the troops against them under false pretences 

I never worry about popularity Kevin. I have always been happy to be Internet marmite. David (like many others) is fighting for his club, and his actions are admirable even though his solution might not be the panacea he thinks. In my mind we are now as far away as we have ever been in expecting EFL support, and that will not change unless they can be beaten into that position by one of legal statute, membership rebellion, or public condemnation. With no disrespect to David, him posting his thoughts on a forum is not going to make bugger all difference to the EFL’s position. As for Quantuma, and their advisors, I am content to let them use their considerable legal and insolvency experience to determine the best way forward.

[kevinhectoring]

44 minutes ago, David said:

Just another point I wish to make @kevinhectoring, I created this topic at 12pm, by which point all the MPs were in the House of Commons, I am fairly positive in saying this, that Toby Perkins, one of the MP's which raised this specific issue was not aware this topic existed on the forum.

I tweeted 3 MP's a link to this topic at 12.24pm, the 3 MP's were Amanda Solloway, Heather Wheeler and Pauline Latham, all of which had been in contact with the administrators prior to the session in House of Commons.

If you think I am personally responsible for this, I disagree, do I believe this topic has helped raise awareness to the issue, yes I do. The truth is, this is something that the administrators were already clearly aware of and actively pursuing.

Sorry to come back again. As much for @i-Ram as you

I just saw this, from the Q BAWT minutes today, carefully crafted : 

The administrators have received 3 QC opinions to the effect that the claims are unlikely to ever succeed in a court of law. They also stand by the view that the claims should not stand as Football Creditors and are working with the EFL to confirm/clarify this.

IT’s written very carefully. It’s telling you that their QC’s - 3 of them !! - have told them that the claims are rubbish. As we know. It’s also telling you that the QCs were unable to support Q’s position that the claims should not stand as football creditors 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

It’s also telling you that the QCs were unable to support Q’s position that the claims should not stand as football creditors

Can you quote the exact line, not sure where you have taken this from?

[kevinhectoring]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

With no disrespect to David, him posting his thoughts on a forum is not going to make bugger all difference to the EFL’s position.

Sadly if @Davidstarts this sort of thread, it drives opinion and the result is 250 posts insulting the EFl. You can be absolutely sure that the EFL has a team monitoring Twitter and this site and that their latest statement is a response not only to Q’s accusations but also to the invective on here 

M and W are fair game for sure and we are winning that PR battle - see the latest awesome Daily Mail article. But attack the EFl and you risk damaging the club’s interests. As MM learned to his considerable cost 

[kevinhectoring]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Can you quote the exact line, not sure where you have taken this from?

I have quoted the paragraph. It all needs to be read and then it needs to be understood  
 

It is from the minutes of today’s meeting between BAWT and others,  and Q 

Edited January 21, 2022 by kevinhectoring