Starship and a Human city on Mars

[TigerTedd]

1 minute ago, Malagaram said:

How many of our keen bloggers will be alive when the starship lands with its payload of humans onto a planet other than Earth,that Eddie is what I meant,how much interest is there on a blog that wont happen in our lifetime,

Depends in how short you think your life time is. There’s a strong feeling that the first person to reach 200 has already been born. Imagine where we will be in their lifetime if they’re still around in the year 2220. My daughter was just speculating that she might live to see the 22nd century, she’d be 91, that doesn’t seem like it would be that unrealistic by today’s standards. Do you really think we won’t be on mars by the end of this century?

I’ve got high hopes that I’ll see someone walk on mars in my lifetime. So I care. And if I don’t get to see it, then maybe my kids will. 

[Stive Pesley]

All focus should be on renewable/green/cost-free energy sources right now. Without us cracking that - everything else is pointless

The amount of energy required to train the next generation of AI is not sustainable using current methods on a planet that is already teetering on the brink of multiple ecological tipping points

Same with BTC - as the coins become more and more scarce (by design) - requiring more and more energy to mine. That's if it is the solution to global finances that the evangelists believe it to be

And of course - the long fabled Mars colony will also need some sort of reliable energy source

 

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Imagine where we will be in their lifetime if they’re still around in the year 2220.

Six foot under

[TigerTedd]

5 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Six foot under

Fair. 

[TigerTedd]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

All focus should be on renewable/green/cost-free energy sources right now. Without us cracking that - everything else is pointless

To be fair, people have beat musk with stick on this thread many times. Why isn’t he spending his billions on clean renewable energy instead of wasting them on this. But do you spend every spare penny you have on clean renewable energy. Or do you have other hobbies and projects. Maybe we should all stop buying tickets to Derby county matches. Maybe David closes should have invested in renewable energy and not spent his money on Derby county.

i think that a) Elon can do what he wants with his money, and if he wants to invest in space travel, then that’s his choice, and b) he’s done plenty for renewables already by bringing EV technology on leaps and bounds, and c) the technological advancements he’s making in space travel will have a trickle down effect to other things. As you say, he’ll need to revolutionise renewable energy if he wants a colony on mars. Which, with Tesla solar tiles and Tesla batteries, he’s doing a pretty good job of. I’m not sure what more people can expect from him, to be honest.

theres an awful lot of billionaires out there who aren’t doing a thing to help. They’ve got a lot of catching up to do. 

[Stive Pesley]

7 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

To be fair, people have beat musk with stick on this thread many times. Why isn’t he spending his billions on clean renewable energy instead of wasting them on this. But do you spend every spare penny you have on clean renewable energy. Or do you have other hobbies and projects. Maybe we should all stop buying tickets to Derby county matches. Maybe David closes should have invested in renewable energy and not spent his money on Derby county.

i think that a) Elon can do what he wants with his money, and if he wants to invest in space travel, then that’s his choice, and b) he’s done plenty for renewables already by bringing EV technology on leaps and bounds, and c) the technological advancements he’s making in space travel will have a trickle down effect to other things. As you say, he’ll need to revolutionise renewable energy if he wants a colony on mars. Which, with Tesla solar tiles and Tesla batteries, he’s doing a pretty good job of. I’m not sure what more people can expect from him, to be honest.

theres an awful lot of billionaires out there who aren’t doing a thing to help. They’ve got a lot of catching up to do. 

Unbelievable as it may seem - for once that wasn't a dig at Elton from me. It was more just a general comment on the need to crack it as a pre-requisite for the next level of technological advancement, otherwise we are in danger of energy becoming the limiting factor

There are plenty of people working on it - even here in Derby with the SMR but there are still huge safety issues to be overcome if production is going to be scaled up at pace

 

[Carl Sagan]

5 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

You know what always frustrates me is when people say ‘we haven’t got the technology yet, but we will in 10 years.’ Always makes me wonder, ‘well if you know what’s required, and you know it’s possible, get on with it, why can’t we have it tomorrow, why do we have to wait 10 years.’

Funny that 60s and 70s were known as the space age. People often beat nasa with the stick that we were on the moon in the 60s and then haven’t been back again for like 50 years. But it’s not like we have never been back to space. We go to space all the time. It’s not about putting men on a rock that we’ve pretty much learnt all we can learn about, but about getting satellites and space stations up there, which we’ve achieved and which has changed the world. 

Disagree over this. People were right to bash NASA with a stick. The first powered flight only happened in 1903, yet by 1969 we'd gone to the Moon! Then we regressed massively. The ISS is only "sort of" space, hanging in low-Earth orbit. The Moon is a thousand times further away and way, way more difficult. More than fifty years on we can't go back today, and that is with all the extraordinary technological developments that have happened in between. Yes we'd have had some OK satellites, but without Musk, the dream of human spaceflight and with it a future among the stars might have faded away entirely.

2 hours ago, Malagaram said:

How many of our keen bloggers will be alive when the starship lands with its payload of humans onto a planet other than Earth,that Eddie is what I meant,how much interest is there on a blog that wont happen in our lifetime,

The first crewed Mars landing will be 2031 or more likely 2033, but lots of interesting stuff will happen in-between now and then, including crewed Moon landings from America and China. Also, later this year I'm publishing a quite brilliant book on abolishing death - the hope is we'll all be able to be woken from what's effectively suspended animation and live in the future we're starting to build now. Even if we might be disappointed to discover the Rams still haven't won the Premier League over that period.

[TigerTedd]

3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Disagree over this. People were right to bash NASA with a stick. The first powered flight only happened in 1903, yet by 1969 we'd gone to the Moon! Then we regressed massively. The ISS is only "sort of" space, hanging in low-Earth orbit. The Moon is a thousand times further away and way, way more difficult. More than fifty years on we can't go back today, and that is with all the extraordinary technological developments that have happened in between. Yes we'd have had some OK satellites, but without Musk, the dream of human spaceflight and with it a future among the stars might have faded away entirely.

The first crewed Mars landing will be 2031 or more likely 2033, but lots of interesting stuff will happen in-between now and then, including crewed Moon landings from America and China. Also, later this year I'm publishing a quite brilliant book on abolishing death - the hope is we'll all be able to be woken from what's effectively suspended animation and live in the future we're starting to build now. Even if we might be disappointed to discover the Rams still haven't won the Premier League over that period.

I get why they didn’t go back to the moon though. It’s very expensive and dangerous and you don’t get a lot from it, that a) we hadn’t already learned from previous missions and b) we couldn’t continue to learn through unmanned missions. It would be like going to Pitcairn Island to say you’ve ticked it off your list, but there’s not really anything to see there, so you wouldn’t really want to go back, there are lots more things to spend the time and money on. 

we really would need to become an interplanetary species if we conquer death entirely. Imagine how over populated we’d become. And imagine how annoyed you’d be if you died the day before death was conquered.  

[maxjam]

I found this interesting, a bit nerdy at times but lots of other good info - for example, transferring large amounts of data from the ISS to Earth has been reduced from 5 days (!!!) to 45 seconds.  

 

[Stive Pesley]

23 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

As you say, he’ll need to revolutionise renewable energy if he wants a colony on mars

I think I'm right in saying that the Starship uses a large amount of methane for fuel and therefore has quite a large carbon footprint, and one that largely gets dispersed into the upper atmosphere (ie the worst place for it)

Probably a smaller footprint than traditional rockets, but when you consider the aspirations are for 1000 launches per year, that's totally unsustainable unless they figure out an alternate green fuel. Musk is a genius though so I guess he has this figured out...

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

11 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I think I'm right in saying that the Starship uses a large amount of methane for fuel and therefore has quite a large carbon footprint, and one that largely gets dispersed into the upper atmosphere (ie the worst place for it)

Probably a smaller footprint than traditional rockets, but when you consider the aspirations are for 1000 launches per year, that's totally unsustainable unless they figure out an alternate green fuel. Musk is a genius though so I guess he has this figured out...

Musk and his ilk won't care. As soon as the capability to develop colonies outside of earth is established the state of our planet will become an irrelevance.

Forget the billions left at risk back home, the billionaires have got some exploring and colonising to do!

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Musk and his ilk won't care. As soon as the capability to develop colonies outside of earth is established the state of our planet will become an irrelevance.

Forget the billions left at risk back home, the billionaires have got some exploring and colonising to do!

There can't be many humans alive who've done more to create a sustainable planet Earth than Musk. 

And the history of leaving your home behind and travelling far, say from Europe to the Americas, is of poorer people doing it, in search of a better life for them and their children. This new wave of human settlement will be just the same. Early life on Mars will be tough, and billionaires will have too much luxury here to give it up. 

[Stive Pesley]

8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

There can't be many humans alive who've done more to create a sustainable planet Earth than Musk. 

And the history of leaving your home behind and travelling far, say from Europe to the Americas, is of poorer people doing it, in search of a better life for them and their children. This new wave of human settlement will be just the same. Early life on Mars will be tough, and billionaires will have too much luxury here to give it up. 

Not sure how much luxury on earth will be left if they are launching 1000 starships a day using methane as fuel. They need to sort that out - otherwise it will be a case of hopping from one inhospitable planet to another

[Comrade 86]

17 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Not sure how much luxury on earth will be left if they are launching 1000 starships a day using methane as fuel. They need to sort that out - otherwise it will be a case of hopping from one inhospitable planet to another

Not sure why you can't grasp that destroying the Earth's ozone layer once and for all is the best and only credible means to preserve the light of human consciousness. I can only put your continued resistance down to you simply not liking Musk's politics, tsk, tsk. Frankly, if you have a kill a few billion poor people to achieve the goal (something us spaceflight business professionals refer to as a 'Rapid Unplanned Culling') it's just tough titties, isn't it? Even you should know you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette capable of space travel.

As for the early settlers, presumably the 'poor people' that are the first to be fried in space, sorry, I mean 'fired' not 'fried', will all be astrophysicists, astronauts, engineers, scientists and medical professionals, though I do wonder why such educated folk would be so poor in the first place. Perhaps poverty stricken Mexicans are especially knowledgeable in all matters relating to terraforming and have simply been waiting for an opportunity to illustrate as much? They build some excellent tunnels after all.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

Not sure why you can't grasp that destroying the Earth's ozone layer once and for all is the best and only credible means to preserve the light of human consciousness. I can only put your continued resistance down to you simply not liking Musk's politics, tsk, tsk. Frankly, if you have a kill a few billion poor people to achieve the goal (something us spaceflight business professionals refer to as a 'Rapid Unplanned Culling') it's just tough titties, isn't it? Even you should know you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette capable of space travel.

As for the early settlers, presumably the 'poor people' that are the first to be fried in space, sorry, I mean 'fired' not 'fried', will all be astrophysicists, astronauts, engineers, scientists and medical professionals, though I do wonder why such educated folk would be so poor in the first place. Perhaps poverty stricken Mexicans are especially knowledgeable in all matters relating to terraforming and have simply been waiting for an opportunity to illustrate as much? They build some excellent tunnels after all.

I think we’d be talking more about the second wave of actual settlers rather than the original party of settlers.

i know you’re not being serious, but, there is a serious philosophical question here. Would you press a button to kill a billion people today, if you knew it would save a trillion people in 100 years, or by not pressing the button, the human race would be extinct within 100 years?

(not saying that’s what’s happening, but if it was, it’s an interesting question). 

[Wolfie]

10 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Would you press a button to kill a billion people today, if you knew it would save a trillion people in 100 years, or by not pressing the button, the human race would be extinct within 100 years?

(not saying that’s what’s happening, but if it was, it’s an interesting question). 

 

[Comrade 86]

58 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I think we’d be talking more about the second wave of actual settlers rather than the original party of settlers.

i know you’re not being serious, but, there is a serious philosophical question here. Would you press a button to kill a billion people today, if you knew it would save a trillion people in 100 years, or by not pressing the button, the human race would be extinct within 100 years?

(not saying that’s what’s happening, but if it was, it’s an interesting question). 

Unequivocally no. 

[Stive Pesley]

4 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Unequivocally no. 

What about if you could kill slightly fewer people - say 6 million

And in return you could have a society full of superior blond-haired blue-eyed folk?

I jest of course, but that's taking us into the topic of eugenics and I think Carl already started a different thread for that

[Comrade 86]

7 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

What about if you could kill slightly fewer people - say 6 million

And in return you could have a society full of superior blond-haired blue-eyed folk?

I jest of course, but that's taking us into the topic of eugenics and I think Carl already started a different thread for that

Yep, that was an absolute doozy. Would little blokes with no hair and bad eyesight survive the Carl cull though? I think that's the burning issue.

[Carl Sagan]

Launch window opens 1pm UK time on Thursday:

The good thing with the new FAA launch licence is that so long as most stuff goes well (ascent, separation, booster heading back to the Gulf, and orbital insertion for Starship) they can keep going with the flight tests without a new investigation every time they lose the vehicle. Which should mean a much increased rate of testing.