Coronavirus

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

What is this evidence? I find it hard to believe that folk staying isolated does not effectively limit infections. How are folk not being exposed to the disease getting infected if not through contact with carriers?

The University of East Anglia did a study that concluded that a full lockdown had little impact on stopping the rate of infection, but closing schools and mass gatherings did. I don't know quite why this is though.

[alexxxxx]

19 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

 

I do get that. Those aren't the rules though. I have been shielding for weeks now, my elderly parents have also been isolating so logic dictates none of us have it, so I could say I don't see the harm in driving up there and giving my mum a hug. 

I just don't believe all people out are in their own household, perhaps as part of the easing everyone needs to carry I'd so if challenged they can prove that they are, or face a fine if they can't. 

the longer people flout the rules the longer it will take us to get back to any sort of normality 

as someone who is shielding I object to having to do it longer than should be necessary because people make their own minds up on what is appropriate rather than following government advice 

 

Yeah its difficult for everyone and no one should be mixing with anyone out of their households, I certainly haven't met anyone outside of my household since 16th march and it's very tiring. A lot of young people in Hackney share flats and houses so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the majority of people right there. 

I know in Italy and Spain you had to carry a note which says your name and address and the reason for your trip out which probably should have been implemented here. 

I think that the vast majority have been sensible and sticking to the rules but yeah there are some people who think they know better. 

[Sith Happens]

Just now, alexxxxx said:

Yeah its difficult for everyone and no one should be mixing with anyone out of their households, I certainly haven't met anyone outside of my household since 16th march and it's very tiring. A lot of young people in Hackney share flats and houses so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the majority of people right there. 

I know in Italy and Spain you had to carry a note which says your name and address and the reason for your trip out which probably should have been implemented here. 

I think that the vast majority have been sensible and sticking to the rules but yeah there are some people who think they know better. 

I think a lot think they know better,  I personally know a few and I'm guessing most of us do too.

but as you say the majority are sensible 

 

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

You reap what you sow.

Indeed you do mate.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

No gardens to sit in, crowded households and sunny weather. 

Id wager most of those groups sat together live together. 

And what do they mean they are fighting a losing battle?

Megaphone to remind everyone of the social distancing rules and anybody not complying will be fined or arrested.

I bet these same police forces never struggle controlling tens of thousands of football fans and taking action against any that step out of line.

Find it quite pathetic them posting it on Twitter, what are they expecting to come of it? Are they after likes or just trying to turn members of the public against each other?

[Sith Happens]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

And what do they mean they are fighting a losing battle?

Megaphone to remind everyone of the social distancing rules and anybody not complying will be fined or arrested.

I bet these same police forces never struggle controlling tens of thousands of football fans and taking action against any that step out of line.

Find it quite pathetic them posting it on Twitter, what are they expecting to come of it? Are they after likes or just trying to turn members of the public against each other?

I agree with that, police it. it can't be that hard. go up to a group of people having a picnic,  issue fixed penalty,  job done.  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I agree with that, police it. it can't be that hard. go up to a group of people having a picnic,  issue fixed penalty,  job done.  

Problem is, that would be actually doing what they are paid to do...much easier to take a picture and put it on Twitter and Facebook.

Unbelievable. 

[B4ev6is]

Pinics are allowed mate but siting on benches are not mate.

[Sith Happens]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Problem is, that would be actually doing what they are paid to do...much easier to take a picture and put it on Twitter and Facebook.

Unbelievable. 

I think they need to make public the things people are doing they shouldn't,  but move them on and deal with it. I have been surprised by the response of the police in some instances.

over policing in some instances,  under policing In others. 

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Pinics are allowed mate but siting on benches are not mate.

no they aren't, well at least to the best of my knowledge 

[Guest]

Just now, Paul71 said:

I think they need to make public the things people are doing they shouldn't,  but move them on and deal with it. I have been surprised by the response of the police in some instances.

over policing in some instances,  under policing In others. 

I guess part of the problem is that they probably dont even know the rules themselves.

I think it comes down to common sense and police have been banned from exercising that for many years.

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I guess part of the problem is that they probably dont even know the rules themselves.

I think it comes down to common sense and police have been banned from exercising that for many years.

I guess when everything you do is scrutinised and people are so willing to criticise, as I have just been guilty of, then it must make the job so much harder 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I guess when everything you do is scrutinised and people are so willing to criticise, as I have just been guilty of, then it must make the job so much harder 

But are they helping themselves by posting things like that on Twitter?

I have absolutely no idea what they thought it would achieve?

If anything it's probably more likely to make people think 'everyone else is doing it why shouldn't I?'

[Sith Happens]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

But are they helping themselves by posting things like that on Twitter?

I have absolutely no idea what they thought it would achieve?

If anything it's probably more likely to make people think 'everyone else is doing it why shouldn't I?'

I dunno. I think those of us that are doing as we should,  should know.  but we also should know that those breaking the rules are being punished 

Keir Starmer said we should treat the population as adults,  hes right,  dish out adult sized punishment to those that break the rules,  £60 fine?, no thanks,  make it an adult sized £6000 then maybe people will take notice 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

I think we may be arguing for different things. 
I was interested in the potential of the quick test to identify the early stages of possible infection. a positive or false positive would mean that the individual has to continue to self-isolate, and may be targeted for more specific lab testing. If all those with a positive result self-isolate, then all those with a negative result would not need to self-isolate.

If I have read it correctly the new Roche antibody test aims to confirm specific immunity to coronavirus after surviving an infection. There is reference to testing 14 days after a pcr lab test for example.

We may well be arguing about different things. This is how I understand it as a non-expert with some experience of gene-based testing on animal feed.

The PCR test is a test for the virus itself. If it turns out positive, then you've got it.

IgM antibodies are the rough and ready, stopgap antibodies that the immune system produces when it knows something is wrong but hasn't quite identified the invader. They are a bit slapdash and bind to the virus at various different sites. They are formed within a few days of infection, but it also takes a few days for symptoms to show, so if you have symptoms and IgM antibodies then you have it. You probably have it if you have no symptoms.

IgG antibodies are much more effective and specific to the virus and they provide long-term immunity (we still don't know how long) but it takes about 14 days for the immune system to start producing them, by which time you have probably got over the worst of it. There's no point in testing for them if you suspect you might be infected because it's too early and you don't have any IgG antibodies yet.

The testing kit made in Derby has an accuracy of 97.8% (IgM) and 99.6% (IgG). That's probably good enough for testing IgG antibodies later on down the line, but it's no good at the beginning.

The point that I am making is that you need an accuracy of more than 99% in order to test properly for IgM antibodies, the ones that matter, and 97.8% isn't accurate enough.

Tests are available with much higher accuracy, but it might be difficult to get your hands on them because they are in great demand. New tests with better accuracy are being developed all the time, but it does take a while to develop them. The virus only arrived in January. Early days yet.

 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

I dunno. I think those of us that are doing as we should,  should know.  but we also should know that those breaking the rules are being punished 

Keir Starmer said we should treat the population as adults,  hes right,  dish out adult sized punishment to those that break the rules,  £60 fine?, no thanks,  make it an adult sized £6000 then maybe people will take notice 

It’s a thought but do we really need to make corona yet another area where the rich can afford to flout the rules and the poor can’t ?

[Sith Happens]

3 minutes ago, Archied said:

It’s a thought but do we really need to make corona yet another area where the rich can afford to flout the rules and the poor can’t 

yeah you can always find a reason not to do something,  maybe find a reason to do it. make it a minimum 6k, but make it a percentage of your salary, or make it hours. 600 hours community service once this is done rich or poor. 

[B4ev6is]

Borries johnson said so him self mate.

[rammieib]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

But how do you assess when redundancies are necessary or not?

A company with x £million in the bank can furlough staff and say there is no work right now so without this scheme you would be made redundant.

Is the furlough scheme necessary in that instance?

Maybe firms who have used the scheme should be assessed at the end of the financial year and re-imburse up to the extent that it does not put them into a loss making position or cause a cash flow problem based on reasonable projections.

The scheme should be there to protect jobs, not protect profits.

The stock market is what prevents that. Any public listed company will want to protect themselves from their value being lost.

We all have billions collectively tied up in stocks which require businesses to do well. That means profits.

Sadly it’s a capitalist world. Any company taking the moral high ground and protecting employees, I would love to know them. Even companies topping up the 80% are much better ethically/morally and should fair better longer term as employees feel more trusted working for them.

[rammieib]

2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

no they aren't, well at least to the best of my knowledge 

Picnics are most definitely NOT allowed.

- Essential food shopping or medical supplies/medical requirements

- going to work if you can’t work from home

- Exercise once per day

- Dog walking

B4 - see this link to help you

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

None of this has changed at all in the past six weeks - everyone sitting in a park or doing a bloody conga is breaking the rules and acting irresponsibly.

Stay safe B4.