Ghost of Clough Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Due to piracy, leading TV rights holders are concerned over potential financial ruin. Personally, I don’t think piracy is the biggest problem for the traditional holders of TV Rights (Sky, BT) The original thought popped into my head when reading this post in the Supporter Charter Question thread: 20 hours ago, singaporeram said: Pay tv is in decline worldwide, Sky paid less for the Premier League this time round, and with BT showing little interest in buying sports content any more, the EFL may suffer further reductions in fees next time around. Mel has rightly said that the championship was underpaid in the most recent broadcast contract. How does the EFL build a better business base so that the financial gap with the Premier League does not just get bigger. The future is online streaming services such as Amazon and Twitter (Netflix ruled it out in the short-term last year). Google, Apple and Facebook are the others expected to step in as some stage. In the Premier League, 20 games out of the 200 in total will be shown by Amazon, in a deal which lasts until 2022. The Championship, has tied it’s hands solely to Sky until 2024. It’s a dangerous strategy by the EFL which will almost certainly result in the financial gap between the Championship and the Premier League widening further - If Amazon prove successful over the next 3 years, they will certainly take a bigger proportion of the market when the next deal comes around. The EFL will be twiddling their thumbs for 2 years before they can even begin to enter the global online streaming market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Due to piracy, leading TV rights holders are concerned over potential financial ruin. Personally, I don’t think piracy is the biggest problem for the traditional holders of TV Rights (Sky, BT) The original thought popped into my head when reading this post in the Supporter Charter Question thread: The future is online streaming services such as Amazon and Twitter (Netflix ruled it out in the short-term last year). Google, Apple and Facebook are the others expected to step in as some stage. In the Premier League, 20 games out of the 200 in total will be shown by Amazon, in a deal which lasts until 2022. The Championship, has tied it’s hands solely to Sky until 2024. It’s a dangerous strategy by the EFL which will almost certainly result in the financial gap between the Championship and the Premier League widening further - If Amazon prove successful over the next 3 years, they will certainly take a bigger proportion of the market when the next deal comes around. The EFL will be twiddling their thumbs for 2 years before they can even begin to enter the global online streaming market. during which time the parachute payments will also increase dramatically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Personally, I don’t think piracy is the biggest problem for the traditional holders of TV Rights (Sky, BT) I'd hazard a bet that the majority of piracy centers around people watching the 3pm kick offs that are broadcast elsewhere in the world as opposed to the TV Picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I'm surprised the likes of Google, Amazon or even Apple haven't made more of a push to at least secure Prem tv rights. Sky has a lot more financial backing now that they are owned by the house of mouse, but its not like the companies named are cash poor. Prem rights would make a lot of money for Youtube or Prime. Do EFL rights even go out to the market or does the board just make a deal directly with Sky? At the moment we get about £75,000 per game from the tv rights (In reality its less than this since the rights also include Carabao cup and playoff matches). Maybe I just see the EFL as more valuable because my team is in it, but I'm sure we could attract a better deal than that with Leeds, Forest, Derby, Wednesday, West Brom, Stoke, Cardiff, Bristol, Huddersfield and Brum all averaging more than 20k attendance in the Championship this season. Boro also usually have pretty good attendances but it is pretty low this year. Even League 1 has Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich on close to 20k or above. It just seems like the EFLl didn't try particularly hard to get the best deal they could for their clubs (not that I am surprised by this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, GenBr said: I'm surprised the likes of Google, Amazon or even Apple haven't made more of a push to at least secure Prem tv rights. Sky has a lot more financial backing now that they are owned by the house of mouse, but its not like the companies named are cash poor. Prem rights would make a lot of money for Youtube or Prime. Do EFL rights even go out to the market or does the board just make a deal directly with Sky? At the moment we get about £75,000 per game from the tv rights (In reality its less than this since the rights also include Carabao cup and playoff matches). Maybe I just see the EFL as more valuable because my team is in it, but I'm sure we could attract a better deal than that with Leeds, Forest, Derby, Wednesday, West Brom, Stoke, Cardiff, Bristol, Huddersfield and Brum all averaging more than 20k attendance in the Championship this season. Boro also usually have pretty good attendances but it is pretty low this year. Even League 1 has Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich on close to 20k or above. It just seems like the EFLl didn't try particularly hard to get the best deal they could for their clubs (not that I am surprised by this). This has been one of Mel's main annoyances ever since he took charge. The Championship in particular is one of the top attended leagues in Europe, so why shouldn't companies have to pay top dollar for it's product. I think a lot of streaming services would be surprised at how many viewers a game like Weds v Leeds or us v the scum up the road gets compared to a Wolves v Brighton. It wouldn't surprise me that once Mel sells up, he doesn't end up as the EFL CEO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, GenBr said: I'm surprised the likes of Google, Amazon or even Apple haven't made more of a push to at least secure Prem tv rights. There's Premier League games on Prime this December. https://www.premierleague.com/partners/amazon-prime-video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ramsbottom said: This has been one of Mel's main annoyances ever since he took charge. The Championship in particular is one of the top attended leagues in Europe, so why shouldn't companies have to pay top dollar for it's product. I think a lot of streaming services would be surprised at how many viewers a game like Weds v Leeds or us v the scum up the road gets compared to a Wolves v Brighton. He has a point (to an extent). The value to a TV company is not just in the number of viewers... but WHO the viewers are. I would hazard a guess that matches involving the 'big six' get many more viewers in the high-income 18-35 group than EFL. And that's what sky are actually paying for. Men in particular in this group are very hard for advertisers to reach and have a high value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 42 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said: There's Premier League games on Prime this December. https://www.premierleague.com/partners/amazon-prime-video Yes i am aware, but as i said previously i'm surprised they haven't pushed more for Prem rights - did they even bid for the larger packages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 There's a report in the Guardian about it, it sounds like there is some complacancy “I know that some rights holders currently invest more in their Christmas parties than on anti-piracy.” https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/08/premier-league-clubs-tv-rights-piracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 The whole TV rights model is falling apart. There are so many matches available now we are becoming sated. As my son in-law put it, you can only eat so many donuts before you get sick of them. Why bother watching a pretty meaningless mid table clash,when you can download pretty much anything you want instantly and be entertained that way. Audiences for BT Champions League are nowhere near expected, Championship games are watched by 10's of thousands not hundreds, certainly not millions. @GenBr asked if amazon etc, bid for some packages? Well these are pretty cute guys commercially, I suspect their market research damped their enthusiasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Championship games are watched by 10's of thousands not hundreds, certainly not millions. This bit is not true however. Below is the viewing figures on Sky for August/September of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 17 hours ago, ThePrisoner said: This bit is not true however. Below is the viewing figures on Sky for August/September of last season. Thanks for putting me right, I had looked for numbers, obviously not hard enough, was going on some old paper comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Thanks for putting me right, I had looked for numbers, obviously not hard enough, was going on some old paper comments. I'd be interested to see the figures for all TV games that season. Obviously the first game is going to do well as it's the first televised game of the season across all English leagues, but looking at these you can see why Leeds are always picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 From LeedsLive in March 2018 these were the average viewer numbers for games involving the following teams in the EFL. Obviously depends on a range of factors, but I don't think there are many surprises there. Sunderland: 395,500 Leeds: 361,583 Nottingham Forest: 349,000 Middlesbrough: 321,250 Sheffield United: 315,667 Cardiff: 301,714 Derby: 293,800 Bristol City: 293,667 Reading: 289,500 Aston Villa: 286,083 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, GenBr said: From LeedsLive in March 2018 these were the average viewer numbers for games involving the following teams in the EFL. Obviously depends on a range of factors, but I don't think there are many surprises there. Sunderland: 395,500 Leeds: 361,583 Nottingham Forest: 349,000 Middlesbrough: 321,250 Sheffield United: 315,667 Cardiff: 301,714 Derby: 293,800 Bristol City: 293,667 Reading: 289,500 Aston Villa: 286,083 not sure how they calculate these things though? wouldn't ramstv damage our figures a touch though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, Spanish said: not sure how they calculate these things though? wouldn't ramstv damage our figures a touch though Those are the figure for SkySports games (so I assume UK viewing figures). This was before the red button midweek deal thing, so most of the time RamsTV would be prevented from showing any games picked for Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 51 minutes ago, Spanish said: not sure how they calculate these things though? wouldn't ramstv damage our figures a touch though They will have the viewing data from BARB who do all the viewing figures. Just a quick glance on the website shows 500k watched Spurs/Liverpool in September 2018. So I don't think any football games get millions in this country. I hazard as many people watch EFL as they do PL with PL getting a just few thousand more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, GenBr said: Those are the figure for SkySports games (so I assume UK viewing figures). This was before the red button midweek deal thing, so most of the time RamsTV would be prevented from showing any games picked for Sky. apart from our millions of overseas supporters of course. Pre ramstv I used to jump on a flight to the UK to watch sky . I understand that spanish viewers have to fly to Netherlands when there is a clash over tv rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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