Tom Lawrence - Fan criticism

[cannable]

I just don’t really know what he is. He’s just there and he plays out wide. 

[JoeDerby]

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

I just don’t really know what he is. He’s just there and he plays out wide. 

cheers for the input, everyone else can seem to see the plus and negative points to his game so you must not be paying much attention at games..

[Alph]

Individually he might possibly be the best winger, I'd pick Wilson myself, but the team has put in its strongest performances without him. 

I thought FloJo might go on to be the the first pick but his performance at QPR was terrible. 

Truth is that they've all chipped in a bit but the best stuff we've played has been built from the back 6 and Mount with the odd cameo from the others rounding off the moves. The worst stuff imo has been when Lawrence has played but I'm not going to suggest that it's always down to him. For example he was poor vs Reading (except for 1 second) and Leeds but there were others that were worse. 

Looking through the games he's played in...

Reading, Leeds, Ipswich, Preston, Hull, Rotherham, Bolton, Norwich, Rotherham and QPR.

The games he hasn't - Oldham cup, Hull cup, Blackburn, Brentford, Man United 

I think we look better in the final third without him. Sharper, quicker passing.

[Derbyram1]

14 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

It’s also worth pointing out that Wilson and Mount are the golden boys at the minute, for obvious reasons, and therefore can do no wrong even if the criticisms Lawrence gets can also be landed at the feet of those two. Out of three Lawrence is Derby’s long term prospect and has to be managed correctly. He had an influential start this season and will come back in and effect games again soon as well.

Its also worth saying these criticisms are people writing on the internet, my ecoerience in real life is that people think Lawrence will come good even if the weaknesses are showing. I like Lawrence a lot, let him develop and support him  like we are letting other clubs loanees develop and he will be an asset. Criticise our player and give the loanees the plaudits isn’t going to help that 

Absolutely spot on Tuff, posted pretty much the same thing on twitter last week.

Mount and Wilson will most likely be gone next season so lets enjoy them while we can but preferably not at the expense of our permanent players.

Have a "like" form me!!

[VulcanRam]

I'd hoped by now we'd see some signs of improvement from last year's version, but it doesn't appear so. That means either he's not taking the coaching on board or he doesn't have the capability to do so. I'd like to think it's not the latter, which raises questions on the former. 

He's got talent, can produce the odd bit of brilliance, but mostly is very average and tbh I find him very frustrating to watch for all the reasons already explained in the thread. This season he's on a par with Bennett, above Josefzoon and below Wilson. 

[JoeDerby]

Just now, Alpha said:

Individually he might possibly be the best winger, I'd pick Wilson myself, but the team has put in its strongest performances without him. 

I thought FloJo might go on to be the the first pick but his performance at QPR was terrible. 

Truth is that they've all chipped in a bit but the best stuff we've played has been built from the back 6 and Mount with the odd cameo from the others rounding off the moves. The worst stuff imo has been when Lawrence has played but I'm not going to suggest that it's always down to him. For example he was poor vs Reading (except for 1 second) and Leeds but there were others that were worse. 

Looking through the games he's played in...

Reading, Leeds, Ipswich, Preston, Hull, Rotherham, Bolton, Norwich, Rotherham and QPR.

The games he hasn't - Oldham cup, Hull cup, Blackburn, Brentford, Man United 

I think we look better in the final third without him. Sharper, quicker passing.

Thanks for this mate.

Really interesting to see that the games he hasn't been involved in have been some of the best team performances.

As you said, all the wide players have chipped in at some point but in they have all been inconsistent. I've been disappointed with Wilson too but again he shows glimpses of real quality and I think he's too good to leave out of the team.

 

It's still very early days as a team playing under a new system, hopefully they will grow and become top players under Frank.

[JoeDerby]

1 minute ago, VulcanRam said:

I'd hoped by now we'd see some signs of improvement from last year's version, but it doesn't appear so. That means either he's not taking the coaching on board or he doesn't have the capability to do so. I'd like to think it's not the latter, which raises questions on the former. 

He's got talent, can produce the odd bit of brilliance, but mostly is very average and tbh I find him very frustrating to watch for all the reasons already explained in the thread. This season he's on a par with Bennett, above Josefzoon and below Wilson. 

I'm not sure what Wilson has done other than score an absolute peach of a free kick though? Apart from that, he's been very average too.

[VulcanRam]

1 minute ago, JoeDerby said:

I'm not sure what Wilson has done other than score an absolute peach of a free kick though? Apart from that, he's been very average too.

Fair enough. I'd argue he plays far more to the team's strengths, looks to pass and move more and is quicker in thought and deed that Lawrence.  I just think he's a better player and there's probably more to come given what he achieved last season at Hull and the form he's shown since coming back from injury. Against QPR he changed the game when he came on as sub and we looked far more likely to score in the last 20 mins. 

[cannable]

27 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

cheers for the input, everyone else can seem to see the plus and negative points to his game so you must not be paying much attention at games..

I can tell you what Anya is, I can tell you what Wilson is, I can tell you what Bennett is, I can tell you what Ward was, I can tell you what Russell was, I can tell you what Bamford was, I can tell you what  Coutts was, I can tell you what Ince was, I can tell you what Dawkins was, I can tell you what Flo Jo is, I can tell you what Abdoul Camara was, I can tell you what Weimann was… I cannot tell you what Tom Lawrence is. 

Possibly a Tesco Value Tom Ince? 

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, The Key Club King said:

Got a very, very good shot on him but can't take players on when playing on the wing and his passing is pretty average. Hits a mean free-kick. 

Basically, we sold Tom Ince and bought another, slightly younger version. 

Tom Ince altough frustrating is a much better player, Lawrence was worth the gamble but I don’t see signs of any great long term improvement to come and I hope he does really well and scores another 6 or 7 goals and gets sold to a desperate premiership club for a profit in January 

[JoeDerby]

18 minutes ago, cannable said:

I can tell you what Anya is, I can tell you what Wilson is, I can tell you what Bennett is, I can tell you what Ward was, I can tell you what Russell was, I can tell you what Bamford was, I can tell you what  Coutts was, I can tell you what Ince was, I can tell you what Dawkins was, I can tell you what Flo Jo is, I can tell you what Abdoul Camara was, I can tell you what Weimann was… I cannot tell you what Tom Lawrence is. 

Possibly a Tesco Value Tom Ince? 

He plays out wide usually on the left side, likes to come inside and shoot. Lacks quality but not confidence. holds on to the ball for too long, could be a lot better if he knew when to release the ball. A cracking shot and dangerous when coming inside from the left. A danger from set pieces. frustrates fans a lot. Very hit and miss. Has match winning quality. Better than Bennett.

 

Hope this helps.

[Bris Vegas]

For me he’s in the top three Derby players I’ve seen in my lifetime.

- Top three greediest or most selfish

- Top three in terms of consistently making the wrong decisions

- Top three in terms of arrogance on the pitch

- Top three most frustrating 

I don’t know whether he is amazing in training and thus implored by his managers to play the way he does, or he’s incapable of learning. 

All Championship wingers can be frustrating, I get that. Ward, Russell, Tommy Smith. They all blew hot or cold.

But Lawrence is a different breed altogether. You could forgive him if he was a team player, but I just don’t see that in him. 

[BaaLocks]

45 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Its also worth saying these criticisms are people writing on the internet, my ecoerience in real life is that people think Lawrence will come good even if the weaknesses are showing.

It's also worth saying that people in real life aren't to be trusted, my experience is that people on the internet are not somehow lesser than the people you reference as great supporters of your position.

For example, I met three million people - all lined up - at the bus stop this morning and each and every one said that we're not criticising Lawrence at all, just saying that he hasn't yet reached the heights expected of him. Honest!

[cannable]

2 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

He plays out wide usually on the left side, likes to come inside and shoot. Lacks quality but not confidence. holds on to the ball for too long, could be a lot better if he knew when to release the ball. A cracking shot and dangerous when coming inside from the left. A danger from set pieces. frustrates fans a lot. Very hit and miss. Has match winning quality. Better than Bennett.

 

Hope this helps.

That’s all you needed to say 

He’s knuckle-balled a couple of free-kicks this season and put a couple of decent corners in against Hull last season, that’s about it when we’re talking set-pieces

[JoeDerby]

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

That’s all you needed to say 

He’s knuckle-balled a couple of free-kicks this season and put a couple of decent corners in against Hull last season, that’s about it when we’re talking set-pieces

So you're telling me he isn't a danger when standing over free kicks? he scores more free kicks than most.

[BaaLocks]

5 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

So you're telling me he isn't a danger when standing over free kicks?

Depends what row you are sat in........

OK - I'm joking - but seriously, Wilson or Lawrence for a dead ball? Give me one nanosecond to think about that...... Mount or Lawrence? A picosecond for that one.....

Look, I'm not trying to say that Lawrence is awful, I really am not. Glass half full I am saying he has development to do, glass half empty I am saying he doesn't look like a £7m player. Either way, he's a Ram and I wish him the best but that doesn't mean I can't see the cracks.

[cannable]

8 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

So you're telling me he isn't a danger when standing over free kicks? he scores more free kicks than most.

He’s scored five in his entire career

[Edtheram]

He was brought in to replace Ince - he hasn't as of yet..........Has anyone?

Im a fan of Lawrence and i have a feeling that he will be a big player for us the later the season goes.

[CROSSWORD]

12 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

He was brought in to replace Ince - he hasn't as of yet..........Has anyone?

Im a fan of Lawrence and i have a feeling that he will be a big player for us the later the season goes.

So you see a gradual improvement in his play?Afraid i dont and right now we play better without him in my view.

However Frank is the man he must see something in the lad i guess.

[AdamRam]

30 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

For me he’s in the top three Derby players I’ve seen in my lifetime.

- Top three greediest or most selfish

- Top three in terms of consistently making the wrong decisions

- Top three in terms of arrogance on the pitch

- Top three most frustrating 

I don’t know whether he is amazing in training and thus implored by his managers to play the way he does, or he’s incapable of learning. 

All Championship wingers can be frustrating, I get that. Ward, Russell, Tommy Smith. They all blew hot or cold.

But Lawrence is a different breed altogether. You could forgive him if he was a team player, but I just don’t see that in him. 

I see your football knowledge has come on leaps and bounds over the past 6 years ?

On 08/12/2012 at 19:38, Bris Vegas said:

I can tell you 100% you can find better players than Will Hughes for $1mill.. Will Hughes may reach the top, but he has about as much potential as thousands of Spanish youngsters on the books of better clubs..