McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, StivePesley said: We could have a perfect, sustainable environment on Mars, the pinnacle of mankind's technological achievements - and it would mean nothing if everyone went insane within 6 months It would also mean nothing if we have destroyed the Earth in the process of getting there. I cannot accept the implication that life on Earth is simply written off. We don't exist in isolation from the world around us, we are not simply free floating egos that can be artificially maintained elsewhere. The mind, body and soul are all extensions and expressions of the land that sustains us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Lambchop said: That's why I see it as an evasion of responsibility, in addition to all the ethical objections to the rich ducking off and leaving the poor behind to starve on the planet they have destroyed. I agree. Far better to ship off all the poor people instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Broadly agree, and that's why it would be imperative to address the mental health challenges just as much as the technological ones. We could have a perfect, sustainable environment on Mars, the pinnacle of mankind's technological achievements - and it would mean nothing if everyone went insane within 6 months and started to stab each other with space cutlery Then we fix the mental health problem, and the ai goes mad - ‘daisy, daisy...’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I agree. Far better to ship off all the poor people instead. Who's going to work in a sweatshop making your trainers then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I agree. Far better to ship off all the poor people instead. Mars is the new Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, Lambchop said: Who's going to work in a sweatshop making your trainers then? Robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, TigerTedd said: Robots. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Who's going to work in a sweatshop making your trainers then? You're right. How silly of me. I did of course mean most of the poor people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The next logical step for humans has to be moving into space doesn't it? 99% of all species that have existed have died out, best chance of survival has to be to spread? Not to mention the technological benefits we are likely to gain from trying. Plus if we can do it why wouldn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 17 hours ago, StivePesley said: Who'd go to Mars if it was a realistic possibility in their lifetime? I think I would (but i doubt it will be an option before I pop me clogs) I would definitely go, but I'm not rich enough to go as a tourist or smart enough to go as an engineer or scientist. My best bet is for the number of spods living and working in space to increase to the point where they require maintenance technicians (3rd class) to unclog the chicken soup dispensers in their vending machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Yeah exactly - I understand where @Lambchop is coming from with the gaia-esque rational, but exploration, curiosity and the need to understand our environment is as much a part of the human psyche as anything Did anyone ever say that we shouldn't conquer mountains, or explore a remote island because we haven't looked after the places we already discovered well enough? Mars is within our solar system, and therefore part of our wider environment. Why wouldn't we go explore it? Space is the final frontier remember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Space is the final frontier and its human nature to explore and understand our surroundings. It is also necessary to become at least a dual planet species if we want to survive in the long term, regardless of any earthly problems having a space program thats ultimate goal is to discover and colonize other worlds is the only viable solution for mankinds long term existence. Creating a moonbase or sending people to Mars is the first real step on that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, StivePesley said: Did anyone ever say that we shouldn't conquer mountains, or explore a remote island because we haven't looked after the places we already discovered well enough? There was a stay at home viking movement who complained that they didn't know what to do with all the snow they'd got. Fine, if you're just billing it as exploration or expansionism, but to pretend it's the way to save humanity from our current problems is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Wolfie said: You're right. How silly of me. I did of course mean most of the poor people. There would be a shift in social class status’s. With no poor people, the poorest remaining people would become the poor people ie the middle classes. So they’d be the ones in the sweat shops... maintaining the robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Lambchop said: There was a stay at home viking movement who complained that they didn't know what to do with all the snow they'd got. Fine, if you're just billing it as exploration or expansionism, but to pretend it's the way to save humanity from our current problems is absurd. I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that, to be honest. Maybe not in so many words, but there is a lot of rhetoric about how we need to do it to ensure the continued existence of humanity. From the late Stephen Hawking no less https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/06/20/human-race-doomed-do-not-colonise-moon-mars-says-stephen-hawking/ I get the point, but I think it's being overly dramatic. I'm definitely just in it for the purposes of expanding our knowledge and the human experience. If life on Earth comes a cropper at some point post-space colonisation, then I think our colonies are going to be a bit screwed too. "Has anyone got a 12mm socket wrench to fix this leaking nuclear reactor?" "Damn, I left mine on earth" "ooops" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Maybe not in so many words, but there is a lot of rhetoric about how we need to do it to ensure the continued existence of humanity. Oh yeah I know about plate tectonics ceasing, then the Sun expanding and killing us all but I was referring to the assertion that it would solve current problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that, to be honest. On 18/09/2018 at 12:13, Carl Sagan said: SpaceX plans a colony of a million people by the end of the century as a backup to civilization on Earth, in case we blow ourselves up here. If you consider the the trillions of humans capable of living good lives in such a future, it's a moral imperative to work to create it. It's certainly one of the claims being made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Lambchop said: It's certainly one of the claims being made here. Sorry I was taking your current problems bit too literally. As you were.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 13 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: three great causes: fighting etreme poverty ending animal suffering safeguarding humanity's long-term future Looking at option 3, they say "Because of the scale of the future, it seems likely that work on this problem is even more high impact than work on the previous two cause areas" Here we are, 'safeguarding humanity's future' through the space program is claimed to be more important than fighting extreme poverty. As mentioned earlier, these claims are economically and morally dubious, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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