England v Spain

[Millenniumram]

4 minutes ago, 86 points said:

There's a few on here who don't like anyone saying that the ref had a poor game. Well the ref had a poor game. Really poor. And Ramos is a snide, dirty cheat. In fact the whole Spanish team go down quicker than Mexican call girls, always feigning injury when they do so. It frazzles my gourd how some teams still get away with it when there's no VAR to highlight their cheating ways. In any case, it's about time we wised up and realised that when we have a ref like this, we simply have to stay on our feet all over the park, not just close to our own goal. Almost non-contact if you will. Rashford was bright but typically profligate in front of goal, and we again showed a lack of real quality in the final third and poor defending on a set-piece. Pretty standard and frustrating fare all round for me, but there are the makings of a decent young side there all the same. I do like Southgate but I'm still not totally convinced that he has the vision to take us forward. That said, he's earned his chance I suppose after a decent WC run so it'd be very hard on him were he not given the chance to take us forward. 6/10 on the night.

Pretty much how I’d sum it up. As much as I rate what Southgate did in Russia I still can’t help but feel he somewhat neglects the importance of midfield balance to get a grip on the game. Defensive mistakes and organisation aside that’s a decent side out there, but we’re playing with two number 10s and no midfielder who can really control the game. Until that’s resolved we’re always going to end up chasing shadows against the top teams. Granted it’s a tough one as there aren’t many options out there, if Hughes can step up or Foden is ready then we’ll be in business.

[Comrade 86]

Just now, McLovin said:

Yeh cos Alli, Lingard and Kane are all fantastic professionals with no bad reputations whatsoever aren’t they?  Ramos did absolutely nothing wrong tonight, he may have done things in the past but he was faultless tonight, an all time great defender if we look at his CV. Gary Neville had it spot on, Ramos is a great and any fan in the world would love him in their team. We complain about a lack of leaders in the game but Ramos is a leader.

Pull your head out the Real lads' ****s for once. You're like a broken record.

[Sexydadbod]

4 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Pull your head out the Real lads' ****s for once. You're like a broken record.

I absolutely hate Madrid because they are everything wrong that is wrong in football but I admire that they are a great team with great players and have dominated football for years. I’ll be grateful them for years though and I’m sure that @MuespachRam will agree with me that we shall appreciate them for years after defeating the scousers. Doesn’t change my argument that England players aren’t faultless so let’s not act they are perfect angels.

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Pretty much how I’d sum it up. As much as I rate what Southgate did in Russia I still can’t help but feel he somewhat neglects the importance of midfield balance to get a grip on the game. Defensive mistakes and organisation aside that’s a decent side out there, but we’re playing with two number 10s and no midfielder who can really control the game. Until that’s resolved we’re always going to end up chasing shadows against the top teams. Granted it’s a tough one as there aren’t many options out there, if Hughes can step up or Foden is ready then we’ll be in business.

Midfield is the issue for me and an over dependence on Kane for goals. Welbeck, Rashford, Sturridge, Alli and co all seem much of a muchness and Sterling's shortcomings in front of goal almost neutralise all the good work he does running into spaces and stretching defences. Lingard too seems too inconsistent. It's not like we have an embarrassment of riches and we just seem too predictable. In fairness, I prefer watching what is a younger team and one that's still improving, than the old guard going missing every game but it's frustrating watching us lose games where we've had enough chances to secure a draw at worst.

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

England were outclassed on the night, can’t just blame the ref (who didn’t actually do much wrong)

[Sexydadbod]

1 minute ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

England were outclassed on the night, can’t just blame the ref (who didn’t actually do much wrong)

Nothing wrong losing to a better team. The things that stick out with what he ref did do wrong are the Stones foul, which was a perfect tackle being the last man standing and the welbeck goal( which I think wasn’t given because of a push on Busquets rather than on De Gea)

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

2 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Nothing wrong losing to a better team. The things that stick out with what he ref did do wrong are the Stones foul, which was a perfect tackle being the last man standing and the welbeck goal( which I think wasn’t given because of a push on Busquets rather than on De Gea)

Agreed I thought it was for the push too.

[Comrade 86]

56 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

England were outclassed on the night, can’t just blame the ref (who didn’t actually do much wrong)

Where have I said the ref was the reason we lost? We lost because we were not clinical enough in front of goal. What I have actually said is that again the refereeing lacked consistency throughout the game. As for being outclassed, had Rashford taken his chances we'd have ended up winning and whilst that may not reflect Spain's technical superiority, it does rather suggest that we were anything but outclassed having lost by only a single goal. For all their pretty football, Spain only had 4 shots on target all night Vs 6 for England.

[Will the Ram]

6 hours ago, McLovin said:

Yeh cos Alli, Lingard and Kane are all fantastic professionals with no bad reputations whatsoever aren’t they?  Ramos did absolutely nothing wrong tonight, he may have done things in the past but he was faultless tonight, an all time great defender if we look at his CV. Gary Neville had it spot on, Ramos is a great and any fan in the world would love him in their team. We complain about a lack of leaders in the game but Ramos is a leader.

Ramos has gotten more red cards than trophies in his career. I think that says a lot about the type of player he is.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Didn't see the match cos sky seem to have these games.

Bur seeing the team looked pretty similar set up to WC in a 352 with the 2 weakest links replaced by gomez and Shaw respectively. 

So I would have expected a similar type of performance - start reasonably bright but henderson gets overrun in midfield and lingard/dele are both typically caught upfield. 

Did kane start dropping back again to try and pick the ball up?

[TimRam]

11 hours ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

England were outclassed on the night, can’t just blame the ref (who didn’t actually do much wrong)

The way Spain passed it around made England look like amateurs rather than millionaire premiership players. Rashford should have scored again...did all the hard work and hit straight at keeper. Build-up to our goal was superb. England pressed a lot more and looked better in last 20 minutes. Should have been 2-2 but for the ref. Never thought I'd say this but as in the world cup, var will be useful. Specially when we play sides like Spain.

[Carl Sagan]

Lingard and Alli are both strikers playing in midfield. You might get away with one of them played there, but not both. It's why we can't compete against the top teams.

I know I have Hughes-tinted spectacles, but it really seems to me that this England side is crying out for young Will. 

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

England were outclassed on the night, can’t just blame the ref (who didn’t actually do much wrong)

Not saying you're wrong but genuinely interested to know why you think England were 'outclassed'?

As I saw it, Rashford puts away 2 bread and butter chances and the referee decides that a goalkeeper dropping the ball on Welbecks head isn't a foul, and England have quite comfortably won that game 4-2.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, TimRam said:

Never thought I'd say this but as in the world cup, var will be useful. Specially when we play sides like Spain.

In the absence of VAR I hope FIFA will be reviewing the incident.

Just the same as them asking managers to explain their comments after a game, I assume they will be asking De Gea to explain why dropping the ball on Welbecks head has led to him dropping to the floor holding his face. 

[eddie]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not saying you're wrong but genuinely interested to know why you think England were 'outclassed'?

As I saw it, Rashford puts away 2 bread and butter chances and the referee decides that a goalkeeper dropping the ball on Welbecks head isn't a foul, and England have quite comfortably won that game 4-2.

*cough*causality*cough*

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not saying you're wrong but genuinely interested to know why you think England were 'outclassed'?

As I saw it, Rashford puts away 2 bread and butter chances and the referee decides that a goalkeeper dropping the ball on Welbecks head isn't a foul, and England have quite comfortably won that game 4-2.

 

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

To answer your question though @G STAR RAM, the game I saw was mostly played in England’s half and they couldn’t get near Spain. A couple of chances doesn’t change that imo.

It was difficult to know who the home side were.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

To answer your question though @G STAR RAM, the game I saw was mostly played in England’s half and they couldn’t get near Spain. A couple of chances doesn’t change that imo.

It was difficult to know who the home side were.

But the game is about scoring goals, not how much possession you have or where the majority of your passes are.

11 shots each, England 6 on target, Spain 4 on target.

De Gea doesn't get away with his cheating and the match finishes 2-2.

Not really sure what happened for people to be saying we were outclassed.

Leicester won a Premier League title on the back of being 'outclassed'.

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

But the game is about scoring goals, not how much possession you have or where the majority of your passes are.

11 shots each, England 6 on target, Spain 4 on target.

De Gea doesn't get away with his cheating and the match finishes 2-2.

Not really sure what happened for people to be saying we were outclassed.

Leicester won a Premier League title on the back of being 'outclassed'.

You’re right the game is about scoring goals. Spain scored 2, England scored 1.

[G STAR RAM]

18 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

You’re right the game is about scoring goals. Spain scored 2, England scored 1.

England scored 2 actually, unfortunately a sniper hit De Gea in the face ato exactly the same moment that he dropped the ball on Welbeck.