Matej Vydra - Signed for Burnley

[Barney1991]

The account that reported the Marriott story on twitter before anyone else says vydra signing for leeds later today

 

[cheron85]

58 minutes ago, David said:

That’s the thing which is bugging me. Regardless of the reasons for the sale, financial or positional, this time you can’t fault Derby for jumping at the first offer and running away with the cash.

It’s been widely known that Vydra is available this summer yet once again, only one club appears to be interested, makes it impossible to trigger a bidding war which is a real kicker, would have liked to have seen a bit more than the £11m but what can you do?

17/18 Championship Golden Boot Winner, one club interested.

League One Golden Boot Winner, multiple clubs in for the lad. 

 

41 minutes ago, sage said:

It simply means statistics are only half the story.

This 

I liked Vydra, he was positive, scored a lot of goals, made good runs, had a lovely shot on him - But I'm not sad that he might go

[Harrowram]

I am sorry that Frank's philosophy involves selling one our best players to a promotion rival. Leeds are buying Barry Douglas from Wolves who was also a big success in the championship last season and are clearly gearing up for a promotion push.

 

 

[Jourdan]

2 hours ago, sage said:

He scored 22 goals of which 7 were penalties but his general play was poor even in his preferred position.

I think he just had one of his 1 in 3 seasons when he takes a high percentage of his chances.

When he was played in a 433 he was awful and really doesn't have the skill set or temperament for that.

I would have hoped for more than the reported £11m but perhaps there is a story in that fee, in terms of other managers opinions of him.

 

Sage, everyone knows you don’t rate Vydra, so it is not a surprise to see you defend this move.

You’re implying that Lampard needs someone who can score goals, play in a 4-3-3, and can offer more in open play, but yet the obvious choice Martin hasn’t got a look in all pre-season either and might not ever, especially now we’re in the middle of bringing in two more forwards.

Everyone is saying that Vydra is too flawed for the system but for me, if I am Frank Lampard and I believe in my coaching ability, I would have looked at Vydra and if there was something missing, I would try and add to his game and see how he blends with the new players, rather than leaving him out in the cold. If you have a proven goalscorer on your hands, why not utilise him? For him not to go on tour and not to get a single pre-season run out is just depressing.

I don’t get the logic that just because he didn’t flourish under McClaren and Pearson in various systems that we should be accepting of this move, all because Lampard is moving forward with a 4-3-3. What happened to a new manager coming in and there being a clean slate and a chance to prove yourself?

Just because Vydra didn’t click in a 4-3-3 under McClaren doesn’t necessarily mean he would be wasted in Lampard’s team, especially coming off a prolific year with renewed confidence. The make up of the team here and now is vastly different to 16-17 and Lampard will have his own ideas and his own methods.

A story in that fee? Are you forgetting the Hughes deal last season? We have consistently sold players for low fees when other clubs have been able to hold out for more. Clubs are going to lowball you if you show signs of being a soft touch.

We just have to trust in Frank but not doing everything in his power to keep Vydra, this could be one of his first ‘rookie mistakes’.

[sage]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Sage, everyone knows you don’t rate Vydra, so it is not a surprise to see you defend this move.

You’re implying that Lampard needs someone who can score goals, play in a 4-3-3, and can offer more in open play, but yet the obvious choice Martin hasn’t got a look in all pre-season either and might not ever, especially now we’re in the middle of bringing in two more forwards.

Everyone is saying that Vydra is too flawed for the system but for me, if I am Frank Lampard and I believe in my coaching ability, I would have looked at Vydra and if there was something missing, I would try and add to his game and see how he blends with the new players, rather than leaving him out in the cold. If you have a proven goalscorer on your hands, why not utilise him? For him not to go on tour and not to get a single pre-season run out is just depressing.

I don’t get the logic that just because he didn’t flourish under McClaren and Pearson in various systems that we should be accepting of this move, all because Lampard is moving forward with a 4-3-3. What happened to a new manager coming in and there being a clean slate and a chance to prove yourself?

Just because Vydra didn’t click in a 4-3-3 under McClaren doesn’t necessarily mean he would be wasted in Lampard’s team, especially coming off a prolific year with renewed confidence. The make up of the team here and now is vastly different to 16-17 and Lampard will have his own ideas and his own methods.

A story in that fee? Are you forgetting the Hughes deal last season? We have consistently sold players for low fees when other clubs have been able to hold out for more. Clubs are going to lowball you if you show signs of being a soft touch.

We just have to trust in Frank but not doing everything in his power to keep Vydra, this could be one of his first ‘rookie mistakes’.

I don't dislike Vydra. I just see his strengths and weaknesses. I see what he brings and what he doesn't.

He is a proven goalscorer 3 seasons out of 9. There is a history of him only doing it when everything suits him and his skill set.

Hughes was sold early to raise money. It is almost August and only 1 club has come in for him. Why?

 

[EnigmaRam]

Career stats

vydra games 312 goals 100 assists 30

Waghorn games 317 goals 93 assists 50 odd

both have only scored double figures 3 times. Waghorn the last few seasons but had to go back to around 2012 for Vydra.

similar goals, similar games but more assists for Waghorn.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Vyd

Just now, EnigmaRam said:

Career stats

vydra games 312 goals 100 assists 30

Waghorn games 317 goals 93 assists 50 odd

both have only scored double figures 3 times. Waghorn the last few seasons but had to go back to around 2012 for Vydra.

similar goals, similar games but more assists for Waghorn.

Vydra you could argue has continuously played at a higher level than Waghorn.

[EnigmaRam]

7 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Sage, everyone knows you don’t rate Vydra, so it is not a surprise to see you defend this move.

You’re implying that Lampard needs someone who can score goals, play in a 4-3-3, and can offer more in open play, but yet the obvious choice Martin hasn’t got a look in all pre-season either and might not ever, especially now we’re in the middle of bringing in two more forwards.

Everyone is saying that Vydra is too flawed for the system but for me, if I am Frank Lampard and I believe in my coaching ability, I would have looked at Vydra and if there was something missing, I would try and add to his game and see how he blends with the new players, rather than leaving him out in the cold. If you have a proven goalscorer on your hands, why not utilise him? For him not to go on tour and not to get a single pre-season run out is just depressing.

I don’t get the logic that just because he didn’t flourish under McClaren and Pearson in various systems that we should be accepting of this move, all because Lampard is moving forward with a 4-3-3. What happened to a new manager coming in and there being a clean slate and a chance to prove yourself?

Just because Vydra didn’t click in a 4-3-3 under McClaren doesn’t necessarily mean he would be wasted in Lampard’s team, especially coming off a prolific year with renewed confidence. The make up of the team here and now is vastly different to 16-17 and Lampard will have his own ideas and his own methods.

A story in that fee? Are you forgetting the Hughes deal last season? We have consistently sold players for low fees when other clubs have been able to hold out for more. Clubs are going to lowball you if you show signs of being a soft touch.

We just have to trust in Frank but not doing everything in his power to keep Vydra, this could be one of his first ‘rookie mistakes’.

Martin and Vydra have both been injured. How can they be played if not fit? 

Not disputing your other points but balancing your view

[EnigmaRam]

4 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Vyd

Vydra you could argue has continuously played at a higher level than Waghorn.

Waghorn 49 and 34 total 83

vydra 65 and 22 total 87

in championship there’s 4 goals or assists in total between them. 

[Carnero]

18 minutes ago, sage said:

Hughes was sold early to raise money. It is almost August and only 1 club has come in for him. Why?

And why hasn't his former manager, who has stacks of cash to spend and is still in the championship, come in for him?

[Jourdan]

23 minutes ago, sage said:

I don't dislike Vydra. I just see his strengths and weaknesses. I see what he brings and what he doesn't.

He is a proven goalscorer 3 seasons out of 10. There is a history of him only doing it when everything suits him and his skill set.

Hughes was sold early to raise money. It is almost August and only 1 club has come in for him. Why?

 

Every player has strengths and weaknesses, but if you are telling me you can’t accommodate a player who has scored 15+ goals in three out of five seasons at this level and more than 20 twice, then I find that strange.

He is a proven goalscorer 3 seasons out of 10? He only does it when everything suits him?

If we are looking at it like that, should we be worried about Marriott? He hasn’t scored goals everywhere he’s been, nor has Waghorn. So are we to assume they also have a history of only doing it when it suits them? Very few players excel everywhere they go.

I could understand the calm over this move if Martin looked like he was going to be first choice and he was fit and firing. But he looks as much out of the reckoning as Vydra does. So what are we left with?

Jerome and Nugent are years past their best and not certain to stay. Marriott is making the step up. Waghorn has shone at this level in fits and starts.

I just think we’re taking a risk, but that’s football. Once the dust settles, I’ll be hoping Marriott and Waghorn bag 15 each like anyone else.

[Comrade 86]

Can't say I have that gut instinct about Marriott or Waghorn but I'd expect that Frank, Jody and co have done their homework and will know what they're getting. It does make me slightly nervy that we are letting Vyds go, assuming the deal actually happens. It's a strategy not without risks IMO but Frank's the man in charge and on what we've seen thus far, he knows what he's doing.

As for those questioning Vyds' attitude, don't all goalscorers get mardy when they're not getting the service they want? Our last three - Martin, Ince and Vyds - what's the common denominator? Some folk have just gotta have a pop guess but personally, I don't think Vyds should be criticised for his attitude. Finishers are greedy and demanding - it's part of what makes them effective.

[Duracell]

9 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Every player has strengths and weaknesses, but if you are telling me you can’t accommodate a player who has scored 15+ goals in three out of five seasons at this level and more than 20 twice, then I find that strange.

That’s simplistic. Of course we could play a way which would suit Vydra and see him score goals. The question is, are we overall more effective with another system? If the goals are spread across the team? Having a 20-goal striker doesn’t garauntee success. Ask Sunderland.

We could keep Vydra and decide to accommodate him, but is he that good? It’s effectivelt what we did last season, and we had some pretty obvious weaknesses. He’s a number 10 who takes risks all over the pitch and loses possession - which is a problem if you have slow, deep midfielders behind him. When he was doing that but not scoring we went on a terrible run.

Absolute nonsense that Lampard couldn’t accommodate Vydra. Of course we can. The question is whether it’s worth it. I’m not saying it isn’t.

I’d take £11,000,000 to make the argument redundant and play a way which potentially suits the team better.

[Jourdan]

22 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Martin and Vydra have both been injured. How can they be played if not fit? 

Not disputing your other points but balancing your view

Yes, that is the party line. And if they are genuinely injured, then that’s fair enough. It just seems a little convenient, shall we say.

Neither went on the tour earlier in pre-season when it would have been beneficial. Surely it still benefits Martin to be part of the touring party and to be mixing with the squad and the new coaching staff if he is part of the plans.

But it seems with Vydra at least we have wrapped him up in cotton wool to ensure that nothing jeopardizes our only realistic chance of a big money sale.

Now if Vydra joins Leeds and spends weeks on the sidelines building up match fitness and slowly being integrated, I’ll hold my hands up.

But would it surprise you to see Vydra walk straight into Leeds’ starting eleven on the opening day suddenly injury free?

[sage]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Yes, that is the party line. And if they are genuinely injured, then that’s fair enough. It just seems a little convenient, shall we say.

Neither went on the tour earlier in pre-season when it would have been beneficial. Surely it still benefits Martin to be part of the touring party and to be mixing with the squad and the new coaching staff if he is part of the plans.

But it seems with Vydra at least we have wrapped him up in cotton wool to ensure that nothing jeopardizes our only realistic chance of a big money sale.

Now if Vydra joins Leeds and spends weeks on the sidelines building up match fitness and slowly being integrated, I’ll hold my hands up.

But would it surprise you to see Vydra walk straight into Leeds’ starting eleven on the opening day suddenly injury free?

Why has only 1 club bid for him if anyone would want him?

[Duracell]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

 

Now if Vydra joins Leeds and spends weeks on the sidelines building up match fitness and slowly being integrated, I’ll hold my hands up.

But would it surprise you to see Vydra walk straight into Leeds’ starting eleven on the opening day suddenly injury free?

It would surprise me if he were to play opening day, yes, and I also happen to agree with you that it’s a very convenient timing of injury. 

I think you’re right, we’ve wrapped him up in cotton wool to ensure he’s not injured. But he’s also not played a single pre-season game. That would make him rusty at best, at worst miles away from being match-fit.

If he played the first game without joining in with any of pre-season, then what’s the point of it? I’m guessing he’s absolutely fine but miles off match fitness and regardless of which club he is at, he probably won’t be fit enough to be in the starting XI until late August to September. 

[Rab a dab doo]

At the moment its all supposition as to what will and won't happen. There are so many variable possible injuries,loss of form, changes of formation and personal that can effect how a particular striker performs in one season to the next.

I think a prime example maybe Salah at Liverpool he had a once in lifetime season last year but to keep up that level of performance is very difficult unless your names Renaldo or Messi.

If Vyds does go out it will interesting to match his stats with his replacement at Derby.

Only time will tell who will have got the better of any proposed deal.

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Yes, that is the party line. And if they are genuinely injured, then that’s fair enough. It just seems a little convenient, shall we say.

Neither went on the tour earlier in pre-season when it would have been beneficial. Surely it still benefits Martin to be part of the touring party and to be mixing with the squad and the new coaching staff if he is part of the plans.

But it seems with Vydra at least we have wrapped him up in cotton wool to ensure that nothing jeopardizes our only realistic chance of a big money sale.

Now if Vydra joins Leeds and spends weeks on the sidelines building up match fitness and slowly being integrated, I’ll hold my hands up.

But would it surprise you to see Vydra walk straight into Leeds’ starting eleven on the opening day suddenly injury free?

Assuming Frank wants to unload Vyds then why lie about an injury? Not exactly what potential suitors want to hear, is it? Posh didn't lie about Marriott, they just didn't play him. Frank's line was that it was a niggle, nothing more, so I don't think Vyds starting for Leeds in their first game would prove anything other than the 'minor niggle' line may have been true. 

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Why has only 1 club bid for him if anyone would want him?

£50K a week salary demand, perhaps?

[Jourdan]

Just now, sage said:

Why has only 1 club bid for him if anyone would want him?

Since when did the number of clubs bidding being made public indicate the quality or level of interest in the player?

Such things can go unreported, and agents and clubs have informal discussions before a bid is even tabled. Perhaps many clubs were interested and priced out of a move? Perhaps Vydra wanted reassurances about being a key player and some clubs couldn’t give him that? Maybe Vydra wanted an astronomical pay rise?

There are so many variables that could explain why Leeds are the frontrunners in a one horse race, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is a top Championship striker, a loss for us, and being sold at a price which is short of market value.