Managers you wish (at the time) we hadn't sacked (or resigned)

[Yojimbo]

1 hour ago, Jayram said:

No disrespect but would you be going to these lengths to make your point if his surname wasn’t Clough? 

He wouldn't have to, because if his surname wasn't Clough he'd have never been appointed Derby manager.

[RamNut]

At the time......should they have gone?

Brian clough - devastated

dave mackay - i thought he'd lost the plot tbh

colin murphy - happy but worried about what was coming

tommy doc - relieved and happy - (altho i like him more now)

colin addision - inevitable 

john newman - whatever

peter taylor - disappointed but he went mad

roy mac - disappointed

arthur cox - disappointed but he'd lost his way

jim smith - ditto

colin todd - pleased, wonderful player, terrible manager

john gregory - didn't think he was given much chance but happy enough.

george burley - very disappointed

phil brown - ecstatic

terry westley - sorry for him

billy davies - disappointed, felt he should have carried on

paul jewell - happy day - useless

nigel clough - disappointed,i  felt he was finally onto something although i would have sacked him previously @ cywka

Schteve - stupid decision, should have carried on. Sad for eric and simmo.

paul clement - bemused

darren wassall - glad it wasn't permanent

nigel pearson - pleased, nutcase

schteve 2 - bemused and sorry for chris powell

gary rat - pleased, we might now get some proper football.

 

 

[Brammie Steve]

1 hour ago, Yojimbo said:

He wouldn't have to, because if his surname wasn't Clough he'd have never been appointed Derby manager.

How about if Clough junior could be given a pot of money to spend on players he really wants rather than having to get bargain basement and loan players!

His dad used every tactic in his impressive arsenal (small 'a') to sign any player he knew would improve the team and usually got them.

Nigel had to make do with the best of the rest.

[Mikeyboy]

7 hours ago, Jayram said:

No disrespect but would you be going to these lengths to make your point if his surname wasn’t Clough? 

If someone has achieved what he has - yes I would! 

[NorwichLad]

8 hours ago, Jayram said:

No disrespect but would you be going to these lengths to make your point if his surname wasn’t Clough? 

He has actually only served to prove my point. Gives Nigel Clough credit for keeping a non-league club in the Championship.... but no credit for Rowett for almost getting the same non-league club in the promotion mix in League 2 and almost promoting them.

Then gives Clough credit for what he did taking over Sheffield United when they were near the bottom of the table, but none for Rowett for doing the exact same thing at Birmingham where he took them from 1 place outside of the relegation zone to 10th place and then sacked in 7th the following season.

Plus Clough's had 10 years in the professional leagues and Rowett has only had 7 years. 

Clough is 52 years old but seems to get away with being considered an eternal 'prospect'. Steve Tilson took Southend from near the bottom of League Two to the Championship.... and has been on the football scrapheap for the past 5 years, he manages Basildon Ladies. He's younger than Nigel Clough! 

[NorwichLad]

1 hour ago, Mikeyboy said:

If someone has achieved what he has - yes I would! 

Would you be as excited about Steve Tilson who took Southend up two levels to the Championship?

Or Darren Ferguson who actually did achieve a double promotion with Peterborough to the Championship and has also gained a promotion with Doncaster? 5 years younger than Clough?

The praise Nigel Clough gets doesn't seem to be particularly justified.... was given 4 years at Derby, can't say he wasn't given a chance. He had a battle to retain control over your transfers in his final summer, but then you had a terrible start. If you've given a manager god knows how many transfer windows and then seem to be going backwards or standing still then clearly they are going to run out of time.

You can say that he didn't have much money or whatever, but lots of teams have been promoted on a tight budget... Burnley for example, and us under Worthington and Lambert. 

And Mick McCarthy spent 7 years at Ipswich without a pot to p*ss in but got them in the play offs a few times.... a lot of Championship sides are skint. 

Can't see how his CV justifies his reputation. He's been a manager for 20 years, will be retirement age in 15 years so well over half way through his career and is back at a small club for a reason.

If Norwich decided to appoint a domestic manager again I'd be disappointed with Nigel Clough and to be honest I'd rather have Fergie's son if I that manager had to have a famous former manager as a father. Has 3 professional promotions over Clough's 1. 

Plus he's really boring isn't he? Had a ridiculously charismatic father so its amazing how he turned out to be so dour, possibly just too nice for management... sure he's got all the knowledge, but can't imagine him ever losing his rag. 

There's a reason why Warnock keeps getting Championship jobs... he brings with him a decent chance of promotion. Can't see anything in Clough's CV which would suggest the same.

[AndyinLiverpool]

5 hours ago, RamNut said:

At the time......should they have gone?

Brian clough - devastated

dave mackay - i thought he'd lost the plot tbh

colin murphy - happy but worried about what was coming

tommy doc - relieved and happy - (altho i like him more now)

colin addision - inevitable 

john newman - whatever

peter taylor - disappointed but he went mad

roy mac - disappointed

arthur cox - disappointed but he'd lost his way

jim smith - ditto

colin todd - pleased, wonderful player, terrible manager

john gregory - didn't think he was given much chance but happy enough.

george burley - very disappointed

phil brown - ecstatic

terry westley - sorry for him

billy davies - disappointed, felt he should have carried on

paul jewell - happy day - useless

nigel clough - disappointed,i  felt he was finally onto something although i would have sacked him previously @ cywka

Schteve - stupid decision, should have carried on. Sad for eric and simmo.

paul clement - bemused

darren wassall - glad it wasn't permanent

nigel pearson - pleased, nutcase

schteve 2 - bemused and sorry for chris powell

gary rat - pleased, we might now get some proper football.

 

 

duck me, there's some dreck in that list, isn't there?

[Bris Vegas]

5 minutes ago, NorwichLad said:

Would you be as excited about Steve Tilson who took Southend up two levels to the Championship?

Or Darren Ferguson who actually did achieve a double promotion with Peterborough to the Championship and has also gained a promotion with Doncaster? 5 years younger than Clough?

The praise Nigel Clough gets doesn't seem to be particularly justified.... was given 4 years at Derby, can't say he wasn't given a chance. He had a battle to retain control over your transfers in his final summer, but then you had a terrible start. If you've given a manager god knows how many transfer windows and then seem to be going backwards or standing still then clearly they are going to run out of time.

You can say that he didn't have much money or whatever, but lots of teams have been promoted on a tight budget... Burnley for example, and us under Worthington and Lambert. 

Can't see how his CV justifies his reputation. He's been a manager for 20 years, will be retirement age in 15 years so well over half way through his career and is back at a small club for a reason.

If Norwich decided to appoint a domestic manager again I'd be disappointed with Nigel Clough and to be honest I'd rather have Fergie's son if I that manager had to have a famous former manager as a father. Has 3 professional promotions over Clough's 1. 

There's a reason why Warnock keeps getting Championship jobs... he brings with him a decent chance of promotion. Can't see anything in Clough's CV which would suggest the same.

Clough did a decent job taking over an ageing squad with a £25m+ wage bill and turned into a young, vibrant one with a £10m wage bill all while improving league position, performance levels and obviously lowering average age of the squad.

He probably had a minimal net spend too.

I think he is held in high regard here is because he clearly cared about the club. He didn't come in, spend X amount of money in a bid for a quick promotion, fall short and the feck off when the next best offer came along.

He, similar to Wenger at Arsenal, treated Derby as a long-term project and sorted us out big time. We had academy products coming through and given chances, and he helped develop a likeable squad with a tight-knit feel to it.

The difference being is if Fergie Jr came in, got us in the playoffs and boosted his reputation so much that another club comes in for him and he leaves us, he ultimately leaves us in a worse position than he found us.

Clough, and let's be honest I was never his biggest fan, deserves respect for never making it about himself and never risking leaving the club in a similar state to how he found it in order to boost his chances of making the PL.

That's the difference. So many managers are selfish and would risk leaving a ticking bomb at a club if it meant giving them a better chance of success. Look at Harry Redknapp. He completely screwed Pompy over so he can get an FA Cup on his CV. He didn't give two hoots that the club's reckless spending would leave them up sheet creek later down the line.

Clough would never have done that here.

[Wolfie]

Limiting myself to Mel’s tenure here but Mac2 is the only one I haven’t agreed with. I feel he could have turned things round, given time. Clearly the sacking was due to Rowett being available and, though I understand & can’t criticise him wanting to go for Gary at the time, things probably would have worked out better in the end. 

Isnt hindsight wonderful?!

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Limiting myself to Mel’s tenure here but Mac2 is the only one I haven’t agreed with. I feel he could have turned things round, given time. Clearly the sacking was due to Rowett being available and, though I understand & can’t criticise him wanting to go for Gary at the time, things probably would have worked out better in the end. 

Isnt hindsight wonderful?!

True.

But I feel we can start again with Frankie & Jody. 

[Colombo King]

Clough Junior, and Stevie Mac the first time around.

[Will Hughes Hair]

3 hours ago, NorwichLad said:

Would you be as excited about Steve Tilson who took Southend up two levels to the Championship?

Or Darren Ferguson who actually did achieve a double promotion with Peterborough to the Championship and has also gained a promotion with Doncaster? 5 years younger than Clough?

The praise Nigel Clough gets doesn't seem to be particularly justified.... was given 4 years at Derby, can't say he wasn't given a chance. He had a battle to retain control over your transfers in his final summer, but then you had a terrible start. If you've given a manager god knows how many transfer windows and then seem to be going backwards or standing still then clearly they are going to run out of time.

You can say that he didn't have much money or whatever, but lots of teams have been promoted on a tight budget... Burnley for example, and us under Worthington and Lambert. 

And Mick McCarthy spent 7 years at Ipswich without a pot to p*ss in but got them in the play offs a few times.... a lot of Championship sides are skint. 

Can't see how his CV justifies his reputation. He's been a manager for 20 years, will be retirement age in 15 years so well over half way through his career and is back at a small club for a reason.

If Norwich decided to appoint a domestic manager again I'd be disappointed with Nigel Clough and to be honest I'd rather have Fergie's son if I that manager had to have a famous former manager as a father. Has 3 professional promotions over Clough's 1. 

Plus he's really boring isn't he? Had a ridiculously charismatic father so its amazing how he turned out to be so dour, possibly just too nice for management... sure he's got all the knowledge, but can't imagine him ever losing his rag. 

There's a reason why Warnock keeps getting Championship jobs... he brings with him a decent chance of promotion. Can't see anything in Clough's CV which would suggest the same.

You still here?

[NorwichLad]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

. Look at Harry Redknapp. He completely screwed Pompy over so he can get an FA Cup on his CV. He didn't give two hoots that the club's reckless spending would leave them up sheet creek later down the line.

Can't stand that bloke, and he has screwed more than one club up in his time in the game. 

Extremely close family though.... best mates with his brother-in-law Frank Lampard Sr who was Redknapp's assistant for 8 years. 

And Redknapp's wife and Lampard Sr's wife were twin sisters.... until Lampard became widowed ten years ago.

So what makes many of you think that Frank Lampard Jr. would be loyal to you and use you as anything other than a stepping stone? Was pretty shocking that he joined Man City for a year to help them snatch the title off Chelsea. 

Never liked Lampard, don't particularly like Gerrard either..... their egos got in the way of England having any chance of success.... in terms of individuals we were best in centre midfield and probably had more depth in that position than ever, and yet these two supposedly top level players couldn't ever manage to strike up an understanding.

If we'd not sacked Hoddle then we'd have built a team around Scholes and both Lamps and Gerrard would have got fewer caps.... Hoddle was the only England manager to ever understand Scholes.

[G-Ram]

1 hour ago, NorwichLad said:

Can't stand that bloke, and he has screwed more than one club up in his time in the game. 

Extremely close family though.... best mates with his brother-in-law Frank Lampard Sr who was Redknapp's assistant for 8 years. 

And Redknapp's wife and Lampard Sr's wife were twin sisters.... until Lampard became widowed ten years ago.

So what makes many of you think that Frank Lampard Jr. would be loyal to you and use you as anything other than a stepping stone? Was pretty shocking that he joined Man City for a year to help them snatch the title off Chelsea. 

Never liked Lampard, don't particularly like Gerrard either..... their egos got in the way of England having any chance of success.... in terms of individuals we were best in centre midfield and probably had more depth in that position than ever, and yet these two supposedly top level players couldn't ever manage to strike up an understanding.

If we'd not sacked Hoddle then we'd have built a team around Scholes and both Lamps and Gerrard would have got fewer caps.... Hoddle was the only England manager to ever understand Scholes.

We wouldnt have built a team around scholes he didnt want to play for England wanted to spend time at home with the family over summer 

Anyone thats seen scholes pottering about springhead knows he isnt really for all that flashy footballers life, gets £7 hair cuts at the local barbers can be seen in the local pubs, played in the oldham legends league when he first retired 

he’d have jacked it in anyway had nothing to do with being forced out on the left 

Problem with England was we had all them class players and played a flat 442 

[NorwichLad]

47 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

We wouldnt have built a team around scholes he didnt want to play for England wanted to spend time at home with the family over summer 

Paul Scholes stated quite clearly last year that Sven Goran-Eriksson thought that Gerrard and Lampard were better players, and that's why he didn't pick him in centre midfield.

There have been some ridiculous excuses from players like Gerrard and Lampard about why the team couldn't gel for England.... usually they trot out the line that its difficult to put aside club loyalties to work as a team..... yet look at the Spain squad for World Cup 2010 and Euro 2012 and look how many Barcelona and Real Madrid players had to put aside club level rivalries....

.... in Euro 2012 the Spain squad had 5 Real Madrid players and 7 Barcelona players, one of the fiercest rivalries in European football... Chelsea and Liverpool supposed to be huge rivals are they? 

It was the overly inflated egos of a group of prima donnas who had too much too young and thought they were better than they were. That's why Scholes called it a "circus" after he left, and probably couldn't be bothered to try and jostle his way into a position to become an 'untouchable' who can't be dropped.

Only really need to examine the attitude of Sol Campbell to see how strong the sense of entitlement was with those failures.... upon enquiring about why Gary Neville got an England job above him and listening to the answer, he was shocked and said "but I'm Sol Campbell" several times. He thinks being Sol Campbell entitles him to a top job in football.

Scholes the best centre midfielder in the world for quite a long time. As Zidane said when asked "whats it like being the best midfielder in the world".... his answer... "I don't know, ask Paul Scholes". Hugely missed opportunity for England not to build a team around Scholes, which Hoddle was on the way to doing when he was sacked for a silly comment. 

I think a Hoddle was our best opportunity of winning something. Worth noting of course that a more intelligent manager could have incorporated all three in midfield or just played him there more oftne instead of giving so many caps to people like Nicky Butt and Kieron Dyer. 

[rynny]

2 hours ago, NorwichLad said:

Never liked Lampard, don't particularly like Gerrard either..... their egos got in the way of England having any chance of success.... in terms of individuals we were best in centre midfield and probably had more depth in that position than ever, and yet these two supposedly top level players couldn't ever manage to strike up an understanding.

They were completely mismanaged for England. As @G-Ram says 4-4-2 was the wrong formation for the team, we had only 1 wide man, unfortunately that was Beckham, and the team revolved around him and how much money he could bring in for the FA. 

[G-Ram]

27 minutes ago, NorwichLad said:

Paul Scholes stated quite clearly last year that Sven Goran-Eriksson thought that Gerrard and Lampard were better players, and that's why he didn't pick him in centre midfield.

There have been some ridiculous excuses from players like Gerrard and Lampard about why the team couldn't gel for England.... usually they trot out the line that its difficult to put aside club loyalties to work as a team..... yet look at the Spain squad for World Cup 2010 and Euro 2012 and look how many Barcelona and Real Madrid players had to put aside club level rivalries....

.... in Euro 2012 the Spain squad had 5 Real Madrid players and 7 Barcelona players, one of the fiercest rivalries in European football... Chelsea and Liverpool supposed to be huge rivals are they? 

It was the overly inflated egos of a group of prima donnas who had too much too young and thought they were better than they were. That's why Scholes called it a "circus" after he left, and probably couldn't be bothered to try and jostle his way into a position to become an 'untouchable' who can't be dropped.

Only really need to examine the attitude of Sol Campbell to see how strong the sense of entitlement was with those failures.... upon enquiring about why Gary Neville got an England job above him and listening to the answer, he was shocked and said "but I'm Sol Campbell" several times. He thinks being Sol Campbell entitles him to a top job in football.

Scholes the best centre midfielder in the world for quite a long time. As Zidane said when asked "whats it like being the best midfielder in the world".... his answer... "I don't know, ask Paul Scholes". Hugely missed opportunity for England not to build a team around Scholes, which Hoddle was on the way to doing when he was sacked for a silly comment. 

I think a Hoddle was our best opportunity of winning something. Worth noting of course that a more intelligent manager could have incorporated all three in midfield or just played him there more oftne instead of giving so many caps to people like Nicky Butt and Kieron Dyer. 

Still maintain you’re wrong about Scholes & he didnt enjoy intetnational football & would rather have spent summer with the family. His only intrest was playing for man u & apparently his contract used to be the easiest to negotiate. Pay him the going rate & just turned up & signed it

He had opportunities to return to England many times but declined  

[NorwichLad]

4 hours ago, rynny said:

They were completely mismanaged for England. As @G-Ram says 4-4-2 was the wrong formation for the team, we had only 1 wide man, unfortunately that was Beckham, and the team revolved around him and how much money he could bring in for the FA. 

We had a superb left winger come through at Norwich called Darren Eadie, rejected £6m offers for him when £6m was mega mega money. We were a Championship side. 

By the time he went to Leicester under Martin O'Neill for £3m (in the Prem) he had already had a serious injury and wasn't quite the same, unfortunately another serious one at Leicester finished him off. 

Was Retired by 27 (in 2003) after not doing much at all for 3 years. 

I know teams always big up their own youth products but that kid would have been the left winger that England desperately needed if he'd not been crocked, a shame for him and England in general, his pace and close control when running with the ball was unreal, and the power he could generate when striking the ball with his left foot was immense for somebody so diminutive. Wasn't entirely one footed either.

If we apply a generous to 'own club bias' reduction to the above projection, then he'd still be at least as good as Craig Bellamy.... who would obviously have won plenty of England caps down that left side if he was English (ignoring the fact that he used to fall out with managers easily).

[NorwichLad]

4 hours ago, G-Ram said:

& apparently his contract used to be the easiest to negotiate. Pay him the going rate & just turned up & signed it

The Neville brothers didn't have an agent either, couldn't contemplate not playing for Man Utd so didn't need anybody with 'contacts' and didn't think paying 5%/10% every month to somebody for only a contract negotiation every few years was worth it.

Wise decision when you look at what happened to Ravel Morrison and Zeki Fryers after they had their agents telling them that they'd already made it when they'd barely kicked a ball.