Cost Cutting

[IlsonDerby]

31 minutes ago, Papahet said:

Because we're Derby County and for some reason like to hand contracts out for fun after 4 or 5 half decent performances. The likes of Bent and Baird having automatic renewals without the managers go ahead tells me it's a being run by amateurs behind the scenes. Have you seen the wagebill since Morris arrived? It's a pisstake he's managed to get it so high after the work GSE and Nigel did in 5 years trying to get it down.

You can't even blame Rush for the recent ones, since he's gone you've had Pearce, Hanson, Keogh, Forsyth and Thorne renew. None of those are the future, so why have them around? Chris Martin got given a new contract to keep Mcclaren happy, a month later Mac was gone and we are stuck with Martin for however many more years.

Why was Rowett given a new deal less than a year at the club? The second another club came sniffing.

Cameron Jerome? If money is so tight, why happily blow 1.25m on this guy? Instead either keep Martin, get in a risk free loan or save the funds till Summer.

The day Morris came in with his millions, was the day it went tits up; the wage bill, the stability, the manager merry go rounds and the ridiculous contracts being handed out left and right. That is the reason we are having to sell assets each Summer (Hendrick, Hughes, Ince..), to remain within FFP and that is the sole reason this club is going backwards rather than forwards.

 

 

 

I’m not saying bringing in Jerome was good business but I’m willing to speculate that the loan fee for Martin more than covered his transfer fee. 

I’d hope Jerome was bought in as he was the best we could afford rather than him being Rowetts first choice (and we’ll never know) 

[archied]

16 minutes ago, Papahet said:

Because we're Derby County and for some reason like to hand contracts out for fun after 4 or 5 half decent performances. The likes of Bent and Baird having automatic renewals without the managers go ahead tells me it's a being run by amateurs behind the scenes. Have you seen the wagebill since Morris arrived? It's a pisstake he's managed to get it so high after the work GSE and Nigel did in 5 years trying to get it down.

You can't even blame Rush for the recent ones, since he's gone you've had Pearce, Hanson, Keogh, Forsyth and Thorne renew. None of those are the future, so why have them around? Chris Martin got given a new contract to keep Mcclaren happy, a month later Mac was gone and we are stuck with Martin for however many more years.

Why was Rowett given a new deal less than a year at the club? The second another club came sniffing.

Cameron Jerome? If money is so tight, why happily blow 1.25m on this guy? Instead either keep Martin, get in a risk free loan or save the funds till Summer.

The day Morris came in with his millions, was the day it went tits up; the wage bill, the stability, the manager merry go rounds and the ridiculous contracts being handed out left and right. That is the reason we are having to sell assets each Summer (Hendrick, Hughes, Ince..), to remain within FFP and that is the sole reason this club is going backwards rather than forwards.

 

 

 

Errr no ,,,,,, the day we lost at Wembley to qpr was the day it all went tits up 

the Americans wanted OUT because it was a money pit just to survive in championship and Morris had bought In ,

we had a very good group of players that were being courted by prem clubs who we wanted to keep at the club and handed out some big money contracts with daft lengths ,, 

so do me a fav and don’t blame mels millions ,, blame how they were spent by all means but almost always nowadays you have to spend to get up and before anybody throws Huddersfield at me ( as somebody did citing how Palmer was ripping up defences with Huddersfield err no ) they went up with a negative goal difference ,they never won a game in the play offs ,, you think that would be accepted at pride park ? Not a chance ,,, there would have been boos ,groaning venom spat at players ,calls for the manager to be sacked ,, imagine mel had bought from the Americans who wanted / needed to sell and he had not invested his money ,,, yes he would be getting the same crap/ blame for buying if he was not going to invest ,,,,, yes I’m pissed off with derby just now , yes I’m embarrassed by them just now , yes I have rising doubts over rowett since Christmas but ffs some fans need to take a step back and look at what they are actually saying and how they apportion blame ,some need to get real

[Papahet]

Just now, IlsonDerby said:

I’m not saying bringing in Jerome was good business but I’m willing to speculate that the loan fee for Martin more than covered his transfer fee. 

I’d hope Jerome was bought in as he was the best we could afford rather than him being Rowetts first choice (and we’ll never know) 

But then in the Summer, we'll have Martin back and Jerome will still be here.

He's signed Huddlestone and Ledley, with both Thorne and Hanson recently signing new deals. So when the players return in June we'll have Butterfield, Bryson, Thorne, Huddlestone, Johnson, Hanson, Ledley, Guy, Elnsik Great planning.

Then we'll wonder why we are up to our tits with FFP.

 

[Topram]

Wave goodbye to Vydra

[Papahet]

14 minutes ago, archied said:

Errr no ,,,,,, the day we lost at Wembley to qpr was the day it all went tits up 

 

How did it go tit's up at Wembley?

Was the wage bill sky high back then and full of pensioners? I recall a side built mainly from Nigel's signings or young hungry Prem loanee's Mac brought in.

Then Morris arrives and we blow every penny we can trying to get out the league, that spending spree wasn't required under Clement. Nor signings like Shackell, Johnson and Butterfield.

Bryson and Hughes pulling up at Bolton, for us to spend 10 friggin million on replacements was the icing on the cake. You'll ultimately end up with 4 midfielders when those are all fit. That's where this "bloated" squad ******** come from and more toss on top of the wage bill.

 

 

[secretsquirrel]

No problem if they get rid of Vydra at least we might get a decent fee.In my opinion i would have a full clear out (except Carson)-im sure though getting most out will be a problem.

[archied]

Just now, Papahet said:

How did it go tit's up at Wembley?

Was the wage bill sky high back then also and full of pensioners? I recall a side built mainly from Nigel's signings or young hungry Prem loanee's.

Then Morris comes in and we blow every penny we can trying to get out the league, that spending spree wasn't required under Clement. Nor signings like Shackell, Johnson and Butterfield.

Bryson and Hughes pulling up at Bolton, for us to spend 10 friggin million on replacement was the icing on the cake.

 

Our better players had become targets to be picked off and we had to start handing out stupid contract lengths and big prem  levelish wages to keep hold of them when we only had championship income which the American owners had already made clear was way too little to even support mid table championship club costs as they were polling money in hand over fist and wanted to sell as they couldn’t keep ploughing money in ,,, suppose we could have just let our top player leave then,,, yep that would have gone down well ? But hey it’s a better story if we blame big bad mel for riding in ,stealing us away from owners who were doing ok and happy to keep hold of the club and put the money in to keep us moving forward ,,,, it was a massive day for us that day and the start of roller coaster white knuckle ride

[cannable]

1 hour ago, Smyth_18 said:

Sad but true.

Is it?

Is George playing ***** because the injuries have done him in or is it once again, the system? 

Under McClaren he would make an angle for himself, receive the ball from the centre-halves, spin and have five players ahead of him and pushed-up full-backs. He could spread the play or find Hughes, Bryson, Jeff or Dawkins in ‘the half-space’. The following game is a prime example of this. 

Now-a-days he’s limited to the right side of the midfield and starting further up the pitch so he’s not receiving it on the half-turn, he’s receiving it face on, and being limited to one side of the pitch further limits his opportunity to turn. 

And now whenever he is turned he’s positioned so that his options are two square passes left or right, a diagonal to Lawrence or in behind for Nugent. The only ‘trademark George pass’ he ever has on is for Vydra.

Then take into account that off the ball he isn’t fast or energetic enough.

There have been five minute spells every now and again where he has dropped in between the centre-halves and taken some control of the game, which makes me think it isn’t him.

And to avoid that looking a sycophantic defence of him I think Huddlestone has the same problems. As he’s more comfortable playing it short, first time with his left and his trademark passing is in-behind rather than zipped to feet though I think he’s just about coping. 

Both belong at the base of a three.

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, jimbobram said:

I don't think losing Vydra (for profit) will be as bad as you make out. If we do get a good price for him I would use whatever available money on a winger. Lawrence looks a different player when he plays in his natural CAM role. he is a direct replacement.

 

3 hours ago, Papahet said:

We made a profit on Ince and what did we buy with the money? Tom Lawrence. A player who's managed what? 3 good games all season.

The Hughes money? Used on Tom Huddlestone, another player with zilch sell on value and stops us playing this brilliant attacking football everyone craves.

I'd argue Wisdom is a shadow of the player he was under Mac, playing second fiddle to Baird for the best part of the season.

Jerome came in for Chris Martin enuff said

If we sold Carson and Vydra we'd only sign some journeyman like Jerome/Thomas Kuszack anyone? or someone who Rowett can't get the best out of a'la Lawrence, Wisdom.

Rowett couldn't attract a seagull to the coast, let alone a gem to the club on a shoestring budget.

vydra will be sold hardly any doubt in that and if Carson can be sold for a very good fee so he should, but sold unfortunately if we receive profit then it will be swallowed up paying one or two off I suspect 

40 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’m not saying bringing in Jerome was good business but I’m willing to speculate that the loan fee for Martin more than covered his transfer fee. 

I’d hope Jerome was bought in as he was the best we could afford rather than him being Rowetts first choice (and we’ll never know) 

Rowett wanted him last summer which says it all 

[Papahet]

Just now, archied said:

Our better players had become targets to be picked off and we had to start handing out stupid contract lengths and big prem  levelish wages to keep hold of them when we only had championship income which the American owners had already made clear was way too little to even support mid table championship club costs as they were polling money in hand over fist and wanted to sell as they couldn’t keep ploughing money in ,,, suppose we could have just let our top player leave then,,, yep that would have gone down well ? But hey it’s a better story if we blame big bad mel for riding in ,stealing us away from owners who were doing ok and happy to keep hold of the club and put the money in to keep us moving forward ,,,, it was a massive day for us that day and the start of roller coaster white knuckle ride

The only player who looked close to leaving was Bryson to Burnley, hence the ridiculous 5 year contract.

The rest are on merit after 5 or 6 performances "Here you go mate, have another 2 or 3 years".

Who was responsible for making Sam Rush the highest paid CEO? Who made Paul Clement the highest paid head coach in the division? Who recently sanctioned a new deal for Rowett just a year into his current? Who tied Chris Martin down for a further 2 years? Who happily agreed to letting Bent and Baird having the say on their contract extensions? Pearce? Forsyth Hanson? Thorne? Keogh?

It's MM, and I don't mean Mickey Mouse.

 

 

 

[cannable]

48 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’m not saying bringing in Jerome was good business but I’m willing to speculate that the loan fee for Martin more than covered his transfer fee. 

I’d hope Jerome was bought in as he was the best we could afford rather than him being Rowetts first choice (and we’ll never know) 

If the widely reported £30,000 is correct AND IF Reading are paying all of it then that’s £510,000.

That’s a third of the Jerome fee, let alone his wages.

I doubt any loan fee will cover £1,000,000 plus Jerome’s wages.

[King Kevin]

4 minutes ago, Papahet said:

The only player who looked close to leaving was Bryson to Burnley, hence the ridiculous 5 year contract.

The rest are on merit after 5 or 6 performances "Here you go mate, have another 2 or 3 years".

Who was responsible for making Sam Rush the highest paid CEO? Who made Paul Clement the highest paid head coach in the division? Who recently sanctioned a new deal for Rowett just a year into his current? Who tied Chris Martin down for a further 2 years? Who happily agreed to letting Bent and Baird having the say on their contract extensions? Pearce? Forsyth Hanson? Thorne? Keogh?

It's MM, and I don't mean Mickey Mouse.

 

 

 

You sure?

[oldtimeram]

I still say that all of this mess is down to Morris 

[Papahet]

6 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

You sure?

Which part?

Sam Rush left in April last year. How many deals have we handed out since then? Any negotiations would get Morris approval anyway, with him being so hands on and his own dough at stake.

 

[cannable]

5 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

I still say that all of this mess is down to Morris 

It’s all very complex. You COULD argue that it was Rush.

In sacking Clough he got rid of a man whose whole footballing ideals perfectly aligned with Morris… but then you could argue Morris would never had joined without Clough.

The appointment of Clement is the beginning of our downfall, whoever made that decision got it badly wrong. But then you could argue; should Mel have sacked McClaren? 

Pearson plunged us further in the ****. 

Nobody has ever shared the same footballing ideals as Mel put probably in part because his own ideals have never been consistent. 

Do we have any senior management left at the club from when Clough was here? There’s been no continuity really since McClaren was sacked. He kept everything the same but was purely a better coach and tactician than Clough. 

[King Kevin]

12 minutes ago, Papahet said:

Which part?

Sam Rush left in April last year. How many deals have we handed out since then? Any negotiations would get Morris approval anyway, with him being so hands on and his own dough at stake.

 

Obviously my sense of humour didn't translate ,the last bit.

[archied]

6 minutes ago, Papahet said:

The only player who looked close to leaving was Bryson to Burnley, hence the ridiculous 5 year contract.

The rest are on merit after 5 or 6 performances "Here you go mate, have another 2 or 3 years".

Who was responsible for making Sam Rush the highest paid CEO? Who made Paul Clement the highest paid head coach in the division? Who recently sanctioned a new deal for Rowett just a year into his current? Who tied Chris Martin down for a further 2 years? Who happily agreed to letting Bent and Baird having the say on their contract extensions? Pearce? Forsyth Hanson? Thorne? Keogh?

It's MM, and I don't mean Mickey Mouse.

 

 

 

Erm you are jumping forward a bit there and missing bits ,,,,Steve Mac was still head coach / manager then and he tied players down  handing out contracts getting players to buy into what he was building so players got big rises better contracts turned down prem chances ,,, then the first sniff of a prem job he did not come out and repay that loyalty and say no thanks , I’m flattered but I have a group of young players who have committed and we are building something here at derby county , that’s when the dressing room was lost ,,,,

Appointing clement ive already said in other posts was the biggest single most daftest mistake Morris’s made and trusting his investment to a bloke with not one jot of experience as a manager ,in his first ever job as a manager and comming back to a second division club in a country he had not even been working in as a number 2 with not a clue of what it was like and what the job was going to take ,,, stupid stupid stupid ,,,, 

if you are saying that mistakes made with the money thrown in are Morris’s fault and the reason we have problems now then that’s fair point but not the fact of throwing money in because that is what it takes to get out of this division or even stay midtable ,,

over trust in sam rush MAY be a big factor but can’t honestly say for sure but I would really love to know how much the decision to bring clement in was driven by rush especially given the agency connections ,

by all means throw blame at mel if you want but at least blame him for the right things and actually putting the money into the club is not it ,,, how it’s used is

[Papahet]

It's no coincidence this club has gone backwards since Morris came in though

Wage budget is through the roof, the average age is through the roof and we are again going to be left with a bloated squad in the Summer when the likes of Martin, Butterfield, Bryson, Blackman return. Attendances are droppin' like flies and the football is dire, especially when it wast long ago we were the most exciting side in the league.

It's a matter of time before Baird gets a 2 year deal, along with Shackell for impressing at Millwall. Bent scored at the weekend, maybe Mel will tie him down for another season?

The future revolves around Thomas, Elnsik and Bogle and let's be honest, how many games has Rowett given them this season? He'd rather bring Anya out the cupboard than use a player from this supposedly amazing academy. He hasn't got the balls, a manager with no balls is usually a manager who doesn't go very far in the game. Limited has fook

Also, I could be wrong on this one but but wasn't Mel part of the Gadsby board who was quick to jump ship when we got promoted in 2007? Where has he been since? It was only after a relative success where we got to Wembley he came out the woodwork again.

Where was he when were were crying out for investment under Nigel throught 08-2013? He returned knowing the club would be able to fixed up to make a nice little earner, major backfired mind like most things DCFC related.

 

 

[archied]

9 minutes ago, Papahet said:

It's no coincidence this club has gone backwards since Morris came in though

Wage budget is through the roof, the average age is through the roof and we are again going to be left with a bloated squad in the Summer when the likes of Martin, Butterfield, Bryson, Blackman return. Attendances are droppin' like flies and the football is dire, especially when it wast long ago we were the most exciting side in the league.

It's a matter of time before Baird gets a 2 year deal, along with Shackell for impressing at Millwall. Bent scored at the weekend, maybe Mel will tie him down for another season?

The future revolves around Thomas, Elnsik and Bogle and let's be honest, how many games has Rowett given them this season? He'd rather bring Anya out the cupboard than use a player from this supposedly amazing academy. He hasn't got the balls, a manager with no balls is usually a manager who doesn't go very far in the game. Limited has fook

Also, I could be wrong on this one but but wasn't Mel part of the Gadsby board who was quick to jump ship when we got promoted in 2007? Where has he been since? It was only after a relative success where we got to Wembley he came out the woodwork again.

Where was he when were were crying out for investment under Nigel throught 08-2013? He returned knowing the club would be able to fixed up to make a nice little earner, major backfired mind like most things DCFC related.

 

 

Yep very big mistakes have been made since clough junior came in and built the model that should have taken us forward and been kept as the building block but let’s at least share it out properly , Morris did not have the kind of money in gadsby days he had when he took over ,,, but yes he has to take a big share of the blame for where we are now as does rush , Steve Mac ,clement and some of the players because no matter what rumours of putting tools down are believed or not believed they let us down too with performances that there was no excuse for and if you think for one minute that I’m not as sad and angry as others to see us returned to the piss poor team that can’t trap/control a ball , hit a simple 10 yard pass to a team mate , move off the ball to give a team mate passing options and generally look like a very poor hungover pub side that was the case for so long before the clough rebuild and all with players that are overrated by us but far better than the shambles they produce then you are sadly mistaken ,,,

problem is we could bang round for the next decade arguing the toss who s to blame for what but it won’t do anything ,, the problem now is what’s the way forward ,,,, at this point I can honestly say I don’t bloody know 

[sage]

3 hours ago, Ramara said:

It is hard to accept. I used to love Thorne but we cant just play him because of how he USED to play for us. Our midfield in general is too slow. I used to rate Forsyth before he got injured but now players seem to just get past him so easily. Olsson isn't much better, has no right foot and struggles to make simple passes. our fullbacks/wingbacks have been a problem for a few seasons. To be fair we've improved since the Gareth Roberts days but our wide defenders atm aren't up to standard. Max Lowe should be starting, not out on loan

Lowe can't get in the Shrewsbury team on a regular basis. 

Gareth Roberts whilst not as good as the Forsyth of 3 years ago he was better than Olsson as he used to stop crosses coming in.