How big are Derby County ? 4 questions

[Alph]

1)Derby are hardly shockingly bad now are we? And we don't sell out our stadium very often at all. We've been in the top 30 clubs in the country for what? 4 years? And 30k seems to be about right for us.Why make more seats for fans that clearly are more interested in our opponents that Derby? Fans who will vanish if we are in the 2nd tier and we'd be back to 25k. 

 

2) I think we could be a top 8-10 club. But so could Sheff Utd. Unfortunately without ridiculous level of investment season on season that's probably the limit and as soon as you try to consolidate the next wannabe will take your place.

3) As famous as Forest? Yeah. More famous. But we will never be as famous as Forest have been in the past. The way things are going in 20 years Forest will be about as world recognised as Blackburn. But that period of history that they have gained recognition I don't think we can match without major titles or regular Champions League football 

4) Honestly don't care. I want a good owner whether he's from Derby or North Korea doesn't bother me. Mel's alright for us. Roman has been good for Chelsea. 

[Cockney Jimmy]

2 hours ago, jagerbob said:

4) dont ever want us to sell to the chinese.

i cant believe people think its a good idea.

Theres loads wrong with modern football at the top level in england that i dont like and dont agree with. Foreign ownership groups is one of them,.

selling out to people to have an expensive play thing when they know nothing about the sport, the culture, well anything. So many clubs have been ruined selling out in this way. Infact when it comes to fan culture they are changing it,and not in a good way.

Im more happy then ever we have Mel who really listens to the fans, was a fan himself and wants to do what he can for the fans.

Recent experiences in Germany proved to me what i probably already knew. Players, managers owners all go, but fans are the club.

I really couldnt give a crap about having a team of international quality players in an international over paid league, where players will dessert ship to another foreign country as soon as they get relegated, because they are only here for the money. Give me a league of lower standard football, mostly players from the country your playing in (especially in the 2nd tier), terraces, better atmosphere, cheaper tickets, games not being dictated by TV ANYDAY OF THE WEEK. The TV rights deal has killed english football in the EPL, it doesnt even matter if they sell their grounds out anymore or not. What  matters is the international rights been sold and followed by the russians and the chinese.

I totally agree - I can get free tickets to West Ham for any game I want - but don’t bother - I’d sooner take my kids to watch Woking- much more enjoyable day out. Even a game at Rochdale the other week was a buzz. I find the big boy games - sanitised tame and boring. There is only one working class pre historic club left for the working classes that generates an atmosphere close to that of a bygone age - Millwall.

[loweman2]

5 hours ago, Cockney Jimmy said:

Is a 40,000 plus stadium realistic or necessary in reality ?

Can we ever be a top 8-10 club prem club year in year out consistently  ?

Will we ever be as famous as Forest or is that simply unlikely ?

If Mel was approached by the mega rich should we encourage him to sell aka Man City and go spending bonkers or keep it local and ‘in the family’.

It’s all been done before dude !

We used to get 40,000 at the BBG.

many top ten finishes, even finished first a couple of times you know !

we were bigger and more famous than than forest and we were playing in Europe before they had even stepped outside of England !

two previous local businessmen guided us through successful periods in the 60s and 70s and then again in the 80s and 90s so keep it in the family.

if you are asking if history can repeat itself then the answer is yes of course it can !

it always does !

up the rams ! You dirty mockney red dog !

[GermanRam]

3) Speaking for Germany: fair enough, Forest are as unknown as we are. Nobody here cares neither about us nor about them. So the question is wrong imo.

Nottingham is the more famous city, sure, actually because people here associate Notts with Robin Hood  

[Cockney Jimmy]

13 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

It’s all been done before dude !

We used to get 40,000 at the BBG.

many top ten finishes, even finished first a couple of times you know !

we were bigger and more famous than than forest and we were playing in Europe before they had even stepped outside of England !

two previous local businessmen guided us through successful periods in the 60s and 70s and then again in the 80s and 90s so keep it in the family.

if you are asking if history can repeat itself then the answer is yes of course it can !

it always does !

up the rams ! You dirty mockney red dog !

Nice one 

[CumbrianRam]

Is a 40,000 plus stadium realistic or necessary in reality ?

No point in the Championship, only if sustanable PL club

Can we ever be a top 8-10 club prem club year in year out consistently  ?

You never know, ask me ten years ago I'd never think Southampton or Leicester would

Will we ever be as famous as Forest or is that simply unlikely ?

Well, not in people born in previous generations, but modern era if you have PL status and build it you create a strong notablity interntionally and nationally. No child in the world was alive when Forest were last in the top flight. Nottingham is and will remain a much more noteable city than Derby however.

If Mel was approached by the mega rich should we encourage him to sell aka Man City and go spending bonkers or keep it local and ‘in the family’.

That is for Mel to decide if that happens, not to fussed where the owners come from as long as they have a solid plan for DCFC, I'm finally starting to warm to Mel this season, his heart is in the right place and he is learning from past mistakes now he has his man in the helm.

[England Ram]

15 hours ago, Cockney Jimmy said:

Is a 40,000 plus stadium realistic or necessary in reality ?

Realistic yes, necessary no. After a few years of clear stability in he top flight you would be better able to gauge your average attendance. My guess it would be close to 32,000 (out of the 33500 capacity now) meaning a 35,000 seater would be more appropriate (and manageable if we were to decline again). 

15 hours ago, Cockney Jimmy said:

Can we ever be a top 8-10 club prem club year in year out consistently?

As others have said, with the right manager, investment and planning we could be. never say never.  I was only thinking at the weekend about some of the clubs we played regularly when I was younger. Some are now not even in the league, others are top flight. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Cockney Jimmy said:

Will we ever be as famous as Forest or is that simply unlikely ?

Forest are only famous in their own minds. Two European cups made them famous for that era and that eclipsed what we had achieved domestically twice. 

Recent history though puts them firmly in the ‘Just another run of the mill failure of a club’ bracket like us and most of the teams around us. 

 

15 hours ago, Cockney Jimmy said:

If Mel was approached by the mega rich should we encourage him to sell aka Man City and go spending bonkers or keep it local and ‘in the family’.

If the level headless of the owners was guanenteeable and the investment on the scale of City then of course. 

Not all foreign investment is bad. 

We need to get promoted quite soon to guarantee the clubs survival anyway even with Mel. He ploughs in an additional 7 million each year just to keep us going even after transfers etc. One year promotion gives us a decade of that with money to spare. 

Mels pockets are not endless. 

[SaintRam]

Derby are the biggest club in the world as far as my interest in football goes. I watch other teams maybe 1% as much as I watch Derby. Beyond that I don't think it matters.

[EssendonRam]

12 hours ago, Cockney Jimmy said:

Is a 40,000 plus stadium realistic or necessary in reality ?

It’s some way off yet.

Can we ever be a top 8-10 club prem club year in year out consistently  ?

Top 10-14, yes if we get the Academy working properly.

Will we ever be as famous as Forest or is that simply unlikely ?

At the risk of sounding jingoistic, I think we almost are. I’ve long argued that the second biggest factor in Derby becoming a big-medium-sized club, after us establishing ourselves as a permanent fixture in the Premiership obviously, is Forest doing the same. The story and legend of Brian Clough has the potential to be saviour of both clubs once again...if it’s done correctly. Unfortunately, our role in the Cloughian tragedy is the original, but spurned, suitor who Mr Clough re-embraced in his sadder, later years.

Imagine the Brian Clough Trophy as a permanent Premiership fixture....

If Mel was approached by the mega rich should we encourage him to sell aka Man City and go spending bonkers or keep it local and ‘in the family’.

This is NOT a potshot at Mel Morris but I’ve questioned since the day he took over from the Americans whether he had sufficient wealth to be the sole owner of Derby County were we to be in the Premiership. As absurd as it sounds, £0.5b (I seem to recall his wealth was estimated at between £0.3-0.5b when he took over) isn’t anywhere near enough for the owner of a Premiership club.

Could he remain the main owner, or a significant minority shareholder, in a consortium? Absolutely.

If his personality could adjust to that.

 

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

16 hours ago, McLovin said:

1. Not necessary at the moment but if/when we are an established premier league club then I'd be looking to expand

2. Not anytime soon unless we were bought by mega rich owners.

3. What does famous mean in this context? Famous to who?

4. There are  lots of rumours circulating that Mel has discussed ownership of the club with a Chinese advisory group.

Did I completely miss this?

[Phoenix]

15 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

1. Not needed or desirable - Pride park is a good size fpr us as is and if safe standing ever comes in I think i've heard that'd slightly raise the capacity anyway. A few years of lower midtable PL and we'd be at our base 25-28K support anyway.

2. Only if we're very well run for an extended period, more likely we can achieve sustainable 17-12 status

3. No, but I don't think that matters terribly. I support DCFC. Being realistic, the name forest is more well known than leicester who won the league not long ago.

4. I wouldn't encourage him to go at all. For all his faults, he's got the interests of the club at heart. Even if Chinese or other big rollers came in we'd just be a vessel for them until times get tough and then we'll be done over and spat out. Take a look at Swansea, for years fan involved sensibly run club that achieved good things, sold out to yankie investors, now they're a stick on for how not to run a club - they might have gone down sooner if they'd stuck to the sustainable model but probably be in better shape when they did. (before we even get into some of the other examples of big promise owners who've come in and ruined clubs, Blackburn and Cov for example). I'm sure if Mel were made a good offer he'd sell up, rich folk didn't get that way by being sentimental.

I was going to put No No No and No but this sums it up perfectly. Besides, do we want a 45,000 stadium,half full (or half empty depending on your outlook on life) as per Shef Wednesday?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1) No - think the current level of size is not far off. Maybe a few thousand more if we stay up in the premier but we already have about 24% of the city based on its population size at the ground any given matchday. Compare this to Newcastle at  around 12%-  most loyal fans in the country my arse.

2) of course - we have won it twice and consistently been in the top 5 -just under a different name then.  I know that most people under thirty don't remember football existed prior to 92 - this is feed by commentators constantly banging on about records being broken that haven't  - example a couple of years ago a huge deal was made about someone breaking the record for scoring in consecutive games -untrue the record for goals in top flight games in an irish fella who scored in 13 games straight for Sheff utd.

3)  As for question 2 football is selective - Derby is defo a more historical football city nostalgia  wise - founder members of football league- first british team to score in Italy , baseball ground pitch , winning the peoples FA cup final in 46 etc .  I went to a forum last year where Archie gemmill was asked this question, in his opinion Derby are much bigger club than Forest.  I think this is the general consensus amongst other fans around the country when asked - I know lads who support Wolves,  Middlesbrough , Spurs etc from my travels who are of this opinion .

Famous is a different thing-  no getting away from the fact that they won two European cups - a red dog mate did show me the teams they beat to win the first one thougth .  my nephews under 6 team would have beat most including the final.  Forest - malmo officially the two smallest teams to get to the European cup final .  So a bit of luck involved in the first one  .  By the way Forest the only team to  win this cup to play in the third tier of there domestic league -  WORST team in European history lol,,,   and robin hood was from Doncaster.

4) I'm afraid  should we get promoted it will be a struggle without more investment to stay there .  £180 mill on promotion sounds a lot but when players like Gylfi Sigurdson go for £30 mil it ain't . Football is unfortunately losing it's soul at that level and few hundred pounds on a season ticket is small fry to most club owners in the prem. They are much more interested in commercial opportunity than how many turn up through the gate .

[eddie]

Silly questions. Forest Green aren't very famous at all.

[RamNut]

31 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

we already have about 24% of the city based on its population size at the ground any given matchday. Compare this to Newcastle at  around 12%-  most loyal fans in the country my arse.

Eh?

the population of derby city in 2011 was 248,000 so the home crowd is about 10% of that.

the population of Derbyshire - a more reasonable catchment area -  is a further 770,000.

So about 2.5% come to Pride Park. 

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

You are correct . My typo I meant 14%- however I would argue that a number of people in North Derbyshire are more drawn to Sheff utd having arrived there from that metropolis and you forget Chesterfield. Additionally there are areas of Derbyshire on the greater Manchester border drawn to the premiership mecca of Manchester and bright lights of Rochdale and Stockport   And 2.5 % of 770,000  is around 19000 .  I would argue that around 14% is more accurate  I was actually thinking more of the city itself rather than the badlands of bakewell  lol

[RamNut]

8 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

You are correct . My typo I meant 14%- however I would argue that a number of people in North Derbyshire are more drawn to Sheff utd having arrived there from that metropolis and you forget Chesterfield. Additionally there are areas of Derbyshire on the greater Manchester border drawn to the premiership mecca of Manchester and bright lights of Rochdale and Stockport   And 2.5 % of 770,000  is around 19000 .  I would argue that around 14% is more accurate  I was actually thinking more of the city itself rather than the badlands of bakewell  lol

The total population of Derbyshire is 248,000 (derby city) plus 770,000 (elsewhere) which includes 100,000 daft enough to live in Chesterfield. I.e. Just over 1 million.

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

So that means that Chesterfield with an average gate of around 6000 must have more twice as big a support as us on demographics alone  .  Learn something new every day

[RamNut]

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

So that means that Chesterfield with an average gate of around 6000 must have more twice as big a support as us on demographics alone  .  Learn something new every day

I said they were daft.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Forgot to mention  - went on a stadium tour of Munichs ground a few years ago on a stag do .  The tour guide had no idea who Derby were,more amusing was she had no idea who Forest were and they won the European cup there.  She did pick up that one of the lads supported West Brom - power of the premier league I suppose.

[Arisesirringo]

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