FFP

[Seaside Ram]

FFP is a load of crap and a smokescreen to hide behind . it doesn't matter if you stick two fingers up and piss all over it because Nothing gets done if you do!  Ask Bournemouth how it worked for them ignoring the rules , getting promoted and now with Prem millions flooding in ?? 

[sage]

18 minutes ago, jono said:

Better off as a mid table, breaking even championship club ? And structured to remain so for ever more ?

not knocking GSE or Nigel in any sense. I also like to see sums add up and loath financial shenanigans, over spending bloated egos et al 

But .. Having an ambitious owner who wants us to be better by gambling his own money. THis can't be wrong.  surely a dream is better than mediocrity ? Especially as the dream isn't being funded by debt

We got to the Wembley final under GSE.

Just saying.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Seaside Ram said:

FFP is a load of crap and a smokescreen to hide behind . it doesn't matter if you stick two fingers up and piss all over it because Nothing gets done if you do!  Ask Bournemouth how it worked for them ignoring the rules , getting promoted and now with Prem millions flooding in ?? 

Or alernatively ask Bolton who were unable to sign players in this transfer window due to an embargo...

[plymouthram]

Under FFP is'nt PSG being looked at with their transfer spending

[RamNut]

55 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Or alernatively ask Bolton who were unable to sign players in this transfer window due to an embargo...

How does that help bolton?

They are massively in debt due to historic over spending during the sam allardyce era and subsequent relegation. Their owner is charging interest on a huge debt and they owe HMRC. How do they get out of that with a transfer embargo?

[jono]

2 hours ago, sage said:

We got to the Wembley final under GSE.

Just saying.

True ... But only with Mac1 playing his game with a particular set of players in a particular way. Not Nigel. And we didn't make it to the promised land. And subsequent Mac efforts just reached a plateau not enough to cross the line. And under Nigel (what the original poster proposed ) we were bottom half and little more than pragmatic and workmanlike - not what I enjoy watching and not the DNA of Derby County. 

Dont get me wrong .. Mac when firing on all cylinders was a great watch. But it was frail, inflexible and lacked resilience. I also think Nigel was a great scout, knows a good footballer but as a manager of an aspiring PL team I am not so sure. 

Not dissing anyone, but GR, with Mel's backing can get us there - Before it was always going to be on a wing and a prayer. AND .. You know what .. I reckon if we do make it and stay up, GR will WANT to stay rather than being seduced by a bigger name.

(you'll gather from the above that I am a bit of a GR fan  ) 

[Gritty]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

True ... But only with Mac1 playing his game with a particular set of players in a particular way. Not Nigel. And we didn't make it to the promised land. And subsequent Mac efforts just reached a plateau not enough to cross the line. And under Nigel (what the original poster proposed ) we were bottom half and little more than pragmatic and workmanlike - not what I enjoy watching and not the DNA of Derby County. 

Dont get me wrong .. Mac when firing on all cylinders was a great watch. But it was frail, inflexible and lacked resilience. I also think Nigel was a great scout, knows a good footballer but as a manager of an aspiring PL team I am not so sure. 

Not dissing anyone, but GR, with Mel's backing can get us there - Before it was always going to be on a wing and a prayer. AND .. You know what .. I reckon if we do make it and stay up, GR will WANT to stay rather than being seduced by a bigger name.

(you'll gather from the above that I am a bit of a GR fan  ) 

GR may well put together an effective championship team.  But Huddlestone apart, I don't think any of this team are obvious Prem players. So would need complete rebuild were we to get up. 

The team Mac had may have been too refined for Champ, but when players left they went to Prem. The core of that squad would have needed adding to but were a potential Prem team

[sage]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

True ... But only with Mac1 playing his game with a particular set of players in a particular way. Not Nigel. And we didn't make it to the promised land. And subsequent Mac efforts just reached a plateau not enough to cross the line. And under Nigel (what the original poster proposed ) we were bottom half and little more than pragmatic and workmanlike - not what I enjoy watching and not the DNA of Derby County. 

Dont get me wrong .. Mac when firing on all cylinders was a great watch. But it was frail, inflexible and lacked resilience. I also think Nigel was a great scout, knows a good footballer but as a manager of an aspiring PL team I am not so sure. 

Not dissing anyone, but GR, with Mel's backing can get us there - Before it was always going to be on a wing and a prayer. AND .. You know what .. I reckon if we do make it and stay up, GR will WANT to stay rather than being seduced by a bigger name.

(you'll gather from the above that I am a bit of a GR fan  ) 

This post has no relevance to the rest of the thread or Bris's post. This is nothing to do with Nigel. 

This thread started about FFP and about how close we are to it.

Bris then suggested that under GSE we had got a good squad and got to Wembley. He then suggested Mel took over and threw money at it and left us with a worse team than we had when he took over ie post Wembley.

Are we better, worse or the same as 1/6/14? 

[G STAR RAM]

54 minutes ago, RamNut said:

How does that help bolton?

They are massively in debt due to historic over spending during the sam allardyce era and subsequent relegation. Their owner is charging interest on a huge debt and they owe HMRC. How do they get out of that with a transfer embargo?

They get out of the embargo byou cutting their cloth accordingly.

Realise they are no longer a Premier League team with Sky money and big crowds.

If I owe HMRC I get threatened with all sorts. Why should a football club be any different?

[eddie]

4 hours ago, Mistaram said:

This is either a wind up or your brain dead

I agree with Bris in parts. We were, and I say this with the benefit of hindsight, far better off with Nigel Clough as manager.

[Mistaram]

49 minutes ago, feisty said:

GR may well put together an effective championship team.  But Huddlestone apart, I don't think any of this team are obvious Prem players. So would need complete rebuild were we to get up. 

The team Mac had may have been too refined for Champ, but when players left they went to Prem. The core of that squad would have needed adding to but were a potential Prem team

Feisty  All teams who get promoted have to buy different players to stay up look at Newcastle Hudders and Brighton they have had to spend millions to try and stay up  Get up then worry about it personally I'm fed up with the Championship 

[RamNut]

28 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

They get out of the embargo byou cutting their cloth accordingly.

Realise they are no longer a Premier League team with Sky money and big crowds.

If I owe HMRC I get threatened with all sorts. Why should a football club be any different?

They haven't got any cloth to cut. These are historic debts, subject to interest. They have no big name players on big salaries.

the owner and the relevant directors should be facing sanctions and penalties for financial mismanagement.

the club needs to be able to trade and compete.

the only route is be declared bankrupt and be allowed to start afresh. FFP is just locking them into an impossible position. It isn't helping them now.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

4 hours ago, Seaside Ram said:

FFP is a load of crap and a smokescreen to hide behind . it doesn't matter if you stick two fingers up and piss all over it because Nothing gets done if you do!  Ask Bournemouth how it worked for them ignoring the rules , getting promoted and now with Prem millions flooding in ?? 

Didn't a team that plays in Red down the road as well as a few others have fines and a transfer embargo? It could have gone very wrong for Bournemouth they had virtually no injuries to any main players.

[jono]

1 hour ago, sage said:

This post has no relevance to the rest of the thread or Bris's post. This is nothing to do with Nigel. 

This thread started about FFP and about how close we are to it.

Bris then suggested that under GSE we had got a good squad and got to Wembley. He then suggested Mel took over and threw money at it and left us with a worse team than we had when he took over ie post Wembley.

Are we better, worse or the same as 1/6/14? 

You are right we have strayed off topic but Bris said we were better off under GSE and Nigel. .. I felt it more than reasonable to challenge that. 

[BondJovi]

20 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wish Mel never came on board.

Obviously he hasn't done it on purpose, but his reckless spending ruined the best team we've had since the Jim Smith days and set us back about five years in the process.

We were better off with GSE and Nigel Clough guiding the ship.

Yet didn't GSE appoint Rush. By which act they are then accountable for some of the on field issues currently faced?

Personally I feel some honour and integrity is returning to the club by not throwing huge amounts of cash around.

[RamuelLJackson]

It might not just be the money side. Rowett has said a few times how it's important to get the squad size down.

 

Edit: as some others have also remarked above

[Sith Happens]

I still disagree with FFP.

If, as Fawaz and also whats happened to Bolton as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the owner puts money in but just as 'loans' OR its been borrowed from elsewhere, i.e will require it back at somepoint then I agree with somesort of FFP.

If an owner says 'hey ive got 500 million im happy to put 100 million in for players and dont expect a penny back ever', then FFP should not apply.

For me FFP should only apply if there is a danger of other business (or club staff) not being paid what they are owed as a result of the overspend, Portsmouth for example...hey lets go into administration and agree 10p in the pound deals on our debts..but lets do it again and agree a further 10p in the pound...so thats er now 1p in the pound.

 

 

[Gritty]

40 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I still disagree with FFP.

If, as Fawaz and also whats happened to Bolton as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the owner puts money in but just as 'loans' OR its been borrowed from elsewhere, i.e will require it back at somepoint then I agree with somesort of FFP.

If an owner says 'hey ive got 500 million im happy to put 100 million in for players and dont expect a penny back ever', then FFP should not apply.

For me FFP should only apply if there is a danger of other business (or club staff) not being paid what they are owed as a result of the overspend, Portsmouth for example...hey lets go into administration and agree 10p in the pound deals on our debts..but lets do it again and agree a further 10p in the pound...so thats er now 1p in the pound.

 

 

The problem is even if the owner puts the cash in for transfers you can still get a situation where the wage bill is so high the club makes a loss each year. 

So if the owner dies/loses interest/goes bankrupt the club is then left making massive losses with nobody to pump in cash.  Club then goes bust and creditors (local businesses, other clubs, the general tax payer) then lose money (when Leicester went bust I believe some local businesses that were suppliers folded due to unpaid bills.  No proof but remember clough saying something)

[Sith Happens]

4 minutes ago, feisty said:

The problem is even if the owner puts the cash in for transfers you can still get a situation where the wage bill is so high the club makes a loss each year. 

So if the owner dies/loses interest/goes bankrupt the club is then left making massive losses with nobody to pump in cash.  Club then goes bust and creditors (local businesses, other clubs, the general tax payer) then lose money (when Leicester went bust I believe some local businesses that were suppliers folded due to unpaid bills.  No proof but remember clough saying something)

I get that bit, i am sure there would be ways around it though to guarantee the funds the for the terms of the players contracts.

Leicester did it yes....businesses folder or had to write off money, they didnt even get a slap on the wrist and still got promoted. Nice of them to be boasting when they won the PL how much money they had made...bet the owners of those businesses they ripped off could have done with a chunk of that.

 

[Gritty]

5 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I get that bit, i am sure there would be ways around it though to guarantee the funds the for the terms of the players contracts.

Leicester did it yes....businesses folder or had to write off money, they didnt even get a slap on the wrist and still got promoted. Nice of them to be boasting when they won the PL how much money they had made...bet the owners of those businesses they ripped off could have done with a chunk of that.

 

Think point is that a 'guarantee' doesn't help if owner goes bust or dies.

Ffp makes sense to me.