Are we desperate for cash?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, David said:

It's almost like there were no warning signings as to what would happen this summer.

How was Rowett supposed to reduce the squad without selling players?

Because we haven't signed a multi million pound player yet we're skint, yet for the last couple of seasons one of the biggest complaints was spending multi millions on players.

We were never immune from FFP, it applies to every single club in this league. 

Maybe it's just me that's enjoying this sensible summer for a change.

My complaints were never about the money being spent. At the end of the day its not the clubs money and as long as my season ticket price is not going through the roof to find it that's fine.

My main gripe was what it did to the public perception of our club. Overnight we went from being the club that operated sustainably, and played eye catching football, to a club desperate to buy their way out of The Championship, that was something I didn't like. It felt like the 5 years building under Clough was wasted time.

I'm happy that we are taking a new route but to be honest if there sales are all purely financial reasons then of course that is disappointing because basically it shows that Mel has gambled and got it wrong.

[RamBamFan]

1 hour ago, David said:

Because we haven't signed a multi million pound player yet we're skint

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we're desperate to get the cash in to meet FFP. As I said in the very first paragraph of the first post, I don't have any doubts that MM has plenty of cash left in the vault.

You have to admit that all our business so far this summer (Two star players out the door a week before the deadline; no expensive incomings yet until after the deadline) seems to suggest that the threat of FFP is lurking.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, David said:

It's almost like there were no warning signings as to what would happen this summer.

How was Rowett supposed to reduce the squad without selling players?

Because we haven't signed a multi million pound player yet we're skint, yet for the last couple of seasons one of the biggest complaints was spending multi millions on players.

We were never immune from FFP, it applies to every single club in this league. 

Maybe it's just me that's enjoying this sensible summer for a change.

What worries me isn't so much that we are selling players is that it appears the club seems all too eager to sell our best players for what I would call bargain prices.

[Day]

5 minutes ago, RamBamFan said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we're desperate to get the cash in to meet FFP. As I said in the very first paragraph of the first post, I don't have any doubts that MM has plenty of cash left in the vault.

You have to admit that all our business so far this summer (Two star players out the door a week before the deadline; no expensive incomings yet until after the deadline) seems to suggest that the threat of FFP is lurking.

FFP is obviously an issue, Rowett has openly talked about it, just not sure how this as become Derby being "desperate for cash".

Just read on the DET Rowett saying he hopes Ince will still be a Derby player but if he does go we'll bring in a high quality replacement. 

That doesn't sound like a man in desperation.

There's 2 months left of the window, I'm sure ideally Rowett would loved to have have completed our summer transfer business but for whatever reason hasn't been possible.

If we can move players on, he won't bring even more in, that's sensible, we don't want to be sat here on September 2nd with a 30+ man squad again. 

[Mckram]

2 minutes ago, RamBamFan said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we're desperate to get the cash in to meet FFP. As I said in the very first paragraph of the first post, I don't have any doubts that MM has plenty of cash left in the vault.

You have to admit that all our business so far this summer (Two star players out the door a week before the deadline; no expensive incomings yet until after the deadline) seems to suggest that the threat of FFP is lurking.

I can't see us being in trouble with FFP at all.

I just think we have that many players now all on big money that we would be daft not to clear them out first and let Gary see what he has to play with.

My understanding (could be wrong) is that all our signings transfer fees are amortised over their contract. So Vydra £8m on a 4 year deal is £2m hit in the year.

Players sold falls in the year so Hendrick £10m profit for the year.

On that logic with Hendrick £10m, Grant £1.3m, Albentosa £0.7m and Hughes £4.5 (maybe others?) all sold in the year for £16.5 -I know these aren't concrete figures.

Players brought in in the year I'd guess at £30m? Sorry it would pain me to actually look back and see what we paid for some of them. £30m over an average contract of 3 years? So maybe £10m in the year.

In - £16.5m

Out - £10m

I know there are other expenses included too but we are allowed to lose £13m. I can't see our other losses being £20m.

 

[LesterRam]

I blame Brexit, its those Brexitidiots fault

[Day]

7 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

What worries me isn't so much that we are selling players is that it appears the club seems all too eager to sell our best players for what I would call bargain prices.

The alternative being hold out until deadline day for the best possible price hoping more clubs come in, then pay over the odds ourselves to get players through the door at the last minute.

Could it be possible the club have put feelers out to other clubs, look we have Hughes and Ince here, both want Premier League football, they have one club each interested, are these players that may interest you at all?

Said it before a thousand times, if there's 2 men that would want the very very top price they can get it will be Mel and Rowett, maybe just maybe we've taken the best and only offers on the table.

[Gritty]

20 minutes ago, Mckram said:

Players sold falls in the year so Hendrick £10m profit for the year.

 

 

No. If a player is sold, the clubs will agree a schedule. So if it is a sale of a 10mn player, the clubs may agree that is going to be paid in installments of 4mn, 3mn, 3mn over 3 years or whatever

 

[Gritty]

15 minutes ago, David said:

The alternative being hold out until deadline day for the best possible price hoping more clubs come in, then pay over the odds ourselves to get players through the door at the last minute.

Could it be possible the club have put feelers out to other clubs, look we have Hughes and Ince here, both want Premier League football, they have one club each interested, are these players that may interest you at all?

Said it before a thousand times, if there's 2 men that would want the very very top price they can get it will be Mel and Rowett, maybe just maybe we've taken the best and only offers on the table.

Sam was an ex-agent. I think he got good value when we sold players in my view (Albentosa went for more than we paid for him, Weimann deal was going to be 2.2mn had Wolves not changed manager, Grant for 2mn plus with only 6 months left on his contract, etc)

I fear that without an experienced CEO, we may be less savvy on how to conduct these negotiations. We might not know how far we can push things without blowing the sale etc

[archied]

Show me a championship club not desperate for money FFP limits and I will show you one that has either in receipt of parachute payments or happy to consolidate in championship with the hope of getting lucky with a good manager and bargain buys ,,

ambitious clubs in this division with large expectant fan bases will always be operating on the edge and have times of reigning it in if not promoted

[EnigmaRam]

38 minutes ago, David said:

The alternative being hold out until deadline day for the best possible price hoping more clubs come in, then pay over the odds ourselves to get players through the door at the last minute.

Could it be possible the club have put feelers out to other clubs, look we have Hughes and Ince here, both want Premier League football, they have one club each interested, are these players that may interest you at all?

Said it before a thousand times, if there's 2 men that would want the very very top price they can get it will be Mel and Rowett, maybe just maybe we've taken the best and only offers on the table.

As Zammo once said, "just say no" ?

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

What worries me isn't so much that we are selling players is that it appears the club seems all too eager to sell our best players for what I would call bargain prices.

 

1 hour ago, David said:

Said it before a thousand times, if there's 2 men that would want the very very top price they can get it will be Mel and Rowett, maybe just maybe we've taken the best and only offers on the table.

THIS

Rowett inherits a squad which has been promised promotion over 4 years - Naturally some of the players will consider themselves good enough for the Premier League and consider this being long enough to wait around for Derby to give it them - They want to leave

Rowett doesn't want those players

However the price we get for them is then entirely based on who is prepared to pay us for them - Looks like we had one club interested in Hughes and one club interested in Ince - Not exactly a bidding war is it?

However

If we see any first team players going to championship rivals THEN I'll start to worry - Especially Keogh as you can't accuse him of not being passionate - At times it's been only him trying to carry the whole the team 

[cannable]

Desperate to raise cash quickly so we can do business. 

Which is probably why we're accepting multi-million pound offers that are nowhere near what we COULD get. 

[ramblur]

5 hours ago, feisty said:

No. If a player is sold, the clubs will agree a schedule. So if it is a sale of a 10mn player, the clubs may agree that is going to be paid in installments of 4mn, 3mn, 3mn over 3 years or whatever

 

Cash has no relevance whatsoever to profit and loss.Profit on sale of players' regs is calculated on the full transfer fee,irrespective of when it's actually paid. 

[ramblur]

5 hours ago, Mckram said:

 

My understanding (could be wrong) is that all our signings transfer fees are amortised over their contract. So Vydra £8m on a 4 year deal is £2m hit in the year.

.

 

You're right that fees are amortised over length of contract,but the way it's all calculated has changed and now players' regs are given a residual value,and amortised down to this,rather than zero. So Vydra would be (transfer fee -residual value)/length of contract.The overall RVs seem to be fairly high,and as a result amortisation charges have fallen significantly.I think a younger player is likely to be allocated a higher RV than an older one.

[Mckram]

49 minutes ago, ramblur said:

You're right that fees are amortised over length of contract,but the way it's all calculated has changed and now players' regs are given a residual value,and amortised down to this,rather than zero. So Vydra would be (transfer fee -residual value)/length of contract.The overall RVs seem to be fairly high,and as a result amortisation charges have fallen significantly.I think a younger player is likely to be allocated a higher RV than an older one.

Ah fair enough, I guess that works in our favour for FFP then!

[Gritty]

2 hours ago, ramblur said:

Cash has no relevance whatsoever to profit and loss.Profit on sale of players' regs is calculated on the full transfer fee,irrespective of when it's actually paid. 

I wasn't talking about profit? I was simply saying that if we sell a player for 10mn, we won't get all 10mn upfront

[Curtains]

FFP

[eddie]

4 minutes ago, curtains said:

FFP

FFS

[ramblur]

5 minutes ago, feisty said:

I wasn't talking about profit? I was simply saying that if we sell a player for 10mn, we won't get all 10mn upfront

You quoted Mckram suggesting a £10m Hendrick profit for the year,and said "No", and then went on to talk about cash and instalments.