europia Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 1 minute ago, bcnram said: Not so... We met the release clause in his contract. Bruce was really peed off at losing him. Yes technically that was the case. We don't know whether he was being kept happy at Hull or not. He wasn't getting much game time. A similar pattern could be emerging.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 11 hours ago, Jon_Grooves said: Im presuming Pearson doesnt like Inces attitude, just like he didnt Martins. Both moaners, and that doesnt fit in to Pearsons Derby. Pearson then is no manager he sells players, he doesn't manage them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Same approach as Nigel Clough. 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Pearson then is no manager he sells players, he doesn't manage them! I'd argue it's the right way. The squad of good characters that McClaren inherited was half the reason we did so well under him. The bunch of prima donna wafty lads that have been bought since are most of the reason we've been ***** this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, needles said: The bunch of prima donna wafty lads that have been bought since are most of the reason we've been ***** this season. No. That's not why we've been cr*p this season else why did why manage to be 'reasonable' last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, needles said: Same approach as Nigel Clough. I'd argue it's the right way. The squad of good characters that McClaren inherited was half the reason we did so well under him. The bunch of prima donna wafty lads that have been bought since are most of the reason we've been ***** this season. Good luck trying to find buyers forBlackman, Bent and Johnson, we are stook with them until the contracts are up or they are paid up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, CumbrianRam said: Good luck trying to find buyers forBlackman, Bent and Johnson, we are stook with them until the contracts are up or they are paid up Shudder to guess what the weekly BACS payment from Mel to them 3 is, £60k+??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: No. That's not why we've been cr*p this season else why did why manage to be 'reasonable' last season? Last season we still tried to play the 433, and we still had the vestiges of the togetherness and belief we inherited from Clough and McClaren respectively. This season we've got a preponderance of wafty players in the squad who are being asked to step up and play a new way. They haven't got the minerals for the task. You can see the men of character easily enough. Hughes. Bryson (who looks like he's seething at what's happening), Keogh. They're your core. There's some around them who keep going and have decent attitude. Christie. Anya. Russell. Maybe Olsson, and a few more. Then there's a lot of blokes I wouldn't want to rely on to have my back in a crisis. Ince the prime example. That's why he isn't playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 1 minute ago, needles said: You can see the men of character easily enough. Hughes. Bryson (who looks like he's seething at what's happening), Keogh. They're your core... But wasted. Hughes & Bryson may put it about but to what end with how they're being asked to play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: But wasted. Hughes & Bryson may put it about but to what end with how they're being asked to play! I've said the same myself. Get Thorne fit, play him behind them two and you're half way to a good side. He's not going to do it though. If the rest of the team was playing with drive that those two have shown, we wouldn't be in this mess all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Maybe it is just me but when Thorne is actually fit I don't think he will be doing a defensive midfielder role, maybe replacing a butterfield but in a basic midfield role but I don't think he has the legs for it based on his appearance levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Don't know the answer with ince , I have looked at him in games and he deosnt seem to be the work shy luxury player stereotype , he does seem to track back and work ,, he also seems a grounded lad when he speaks in interview deosnt seem like a Johnny big spuds thinks he s better than he is character,,, so I'm not sure Pearson is trying to teach him a lesson by benching him ,, it just seems that ince far too often fails to produce what he's on the park to produce ie creativity and goals and he s not producing now ,,, I for one am confused about what he is as a player ,we have some saying h Es best as a wide player but when he s not producing it's put out there that wide is not his best position ,he s a number 10 , then when he s played number 10 and don't produce visa versa ,, don't know the answer but I do know the days of the luxury player of that type who can produce magic 1 in 5 games but nothing in between are gone for all clubs , all managers want /need players to produce a level of consistency so you've got some kind of idea what your going to get in a game , ince for whatever reason just has long runs of games where he produces nothing at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Grooves Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 On 14/09/2016 at 21:37, RoyMac5 said: Pearson then is no manager he sells players, he doesn't manage them! Its about a healthy postive dressing room that can pull in the same direction together. Negative characters that have been around for a while sometimes need shipping out to ''freshen it up'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 37 minutes ago, Jon_Grooves said: Its about a healthy postive dressing room that can pull in the same direction together. Negative characters that have been around for a while sometimes need shipping out to ''freshen it up'' Yes ultimately the manager is judged by the performance of the team that he picks. Using an excuse of inheriting someone squad containing a few disgruntled players, would not be accepted by a willing and supportive chairman as mitigation for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 We've lost our last three games, without scoring, and Ince has played 45 minutes. Maybe that should be a big wake up call to Nigel Pearson? Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Grooves Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ambitious said: We've lost our last three games, without scoring, and Ince has played 45 minutes. Maybe that should be a big wake up call to Nigel Pearson? Maybe. weve been on a downward spiral since the end of the McClaren era, its not happend over night since Pearson arrived has it?! Pearson will sort it out, but since weve been **** for a while now, it also isnt going to happen over night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 13 hours ago, Jon_Grooves said: weve been on a downward spiral since the end of the McClaren era, its not happend over night since Pearson arrived has it?! Pearson will sort it out, but since weve been **** for a while now, it also isnt going to happen over night. Under Wassall our form was that of play off contenders. 1.68 points per game gets us in the play offs 2 out of the last 3 seasons (coincidentally the 2 years we did make it in). That was with the same mentally weak squad. The same bunch of players who 'don't care'. For me Pearson has to get us to above 75 points this season otherwise a better manager has taken this squad backwards from somebody who runs our academy and is still employed by us. (Wassall had to contend with getting us out of a bad place under Clement, Pearson came in with a clean slate and the whole summer to work on things) i will give Pearson time but as far he isn't covering himself in glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I think part of the problem with Ince is he's too negative on himself, he's often said in interviews hes his own worst critic. People think he's throwing his toys out at other players but most of the time I think he's berating himself for how he's playing. His effort is there and certainly in interviews doesn't give the impression he's a primadonna. He needs to fix mindset if he's going to be a good player. Loads of ability, horrendously inconsistent within games and game to game and definitely the most frustrating player in the Derby squad. I was hoping he would be sold last window but he has the potential to be a great asset. How long do you persevere? For me, latest end of this season and then get shot if he hasn't improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Obviously has some individual talent but often looks predictable and one-dimensional. When we’re behind in a game or struggling I really don’t expect Ince is going to be the player who’s going to turn it around with a flash of individual skill. Despite the odd good game his interlinking play, his movement off the ball and his ability to create space for others is not that great. He never convinced as a team player alongside the likes of Martin, Russell, Bryson, and Hughes - who at times seemed telepathic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 53 minutes ago, ramesses said: Despite the odd good game his interlinking play, his movement off the ball and his ability to create space for others is not that great. He never convinced as a team player alongside the likes of Martin, Russell, Bryson, and Hughes - who at times seemed telepathic. Exactly. When he was at his best (on loan) it was when played with Bent, because for some reason opposition teams still believed that Bent had pace - they'd be busy worrying themselves about what he was doing and it would open up the space for Tom Ince. That still stood in 2015/16 on the rare occasion they played together (Bristol being the obvious one), but now I think other teams have finally realised that Bent is shot and hardly needs worrying about. If you put Ince in a team that isn't full of pace and moving the ball quickly then his lack of awareness in tight spaces, his tendency to take 5 touches when 2 will do, and his insistence on getting it on his left foot all become an issue. Ironically, with the signings of Vydra (especially) and WIlson/Anya, we have some players who the opposition might have the same 'fear factor' about with their pace, which would open up the space for Ince, and he isn't playing! ps, What the hell has happened to his ability to take a free kick? Good on loan, but absolutely turd for a whole season. Maybe you could put that down to confidence, but I don't think it should make such a dramatic difference to dead ball situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 17 hours ago, Ambitious said: We've lost our last three games, without scoring, and Ince has played 45 minutes. Maybe that should be a big wake up call to Nigel Pearson? Maybe. Tom Ince has been at the club a tad longer than the new manager though. He has also had plenty of opportunities to stake his place in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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