Comrade 86 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 I've been on this forum for a season or so now and I don't claim to have the encyclopaedic knowledge of many. I don't have a season ticket and only make half a dozen games a year these days so nor do I claim to know more than those who fork out hard-earned to support the team they love, home and away. Props to all of you. I don't pretend to understand better than the gaffer or the season ticket holders what formation we should play, nor can I claim to know who is capable of playing 'the right formation' whatever that might be. But this is what I think, for what it's worth. Chris Martin is a quality striker. He's proven in that he scores plenty and creates a good few too. Those who criticise him for being sulky when things don't go his way are missing the point. Why should we expect him to grin like an idiot when things are going wrong? Tom Ince has mad skills. He smiles plenty when we play well and as with Martin, I'd worry more if he wasn't grumpy when we don't. In Olsson and Fozzy we have two of the best LBs in the Championship. Bradley Johnson is not a bad player. He's massively short on confidence and struggling badly but cheering when he's subbed doesn't help. Perhaps he'll never prosper at Derby but the vitriol directed at him is over the top. Keogh is a fighter and those who feel he 'always has a mistake in him' would do well to point out a defender who doesn't. When a striker makes a mistake it doesn't cost a goal. He's a heart on sleeve type of player and some of the bile directed at him on this forum must hurt. Jeff Hendrick has not achieved what he should with his ability but he just might if we get behind him. His performances for Ireland show what he can do without the weight of expectation on his back. Will Hughes is pure class. I'd not swap him for any player in the division, biased or not. I genuinely believe he could play any position on the pitch so let's not assume he can't play in a 4-4-2 until proven otherwise. We did not overpay for Jacob Butterfield. After a tricky start where he looked a little overawed and a season where IMO he was massively underused, he's come out swinging. I respect that and have a hunch that he could silence the doubters in true style this year. Expect 8 to 10 goals from him this season if he's a regular starter. Craig Bryson is not 'past it'. It's harder to get match fit as you get older but he just might show us the Bryson of old this season. Nigel Pearson is not a fool. In weaker Championships we've been found out playing 4-3-3 so let's make up our minds. Pretty football or promotion? Boro, Burnley and co have shown that expecting both might be unrealistic. To expect him to have the team flying in a 4-4-2 after pre-season and one game is just plain silly. The team will play better if we get off their backs and support them rather than jumping on every mistake. Being hyper-critical does not and never will improve our performances on the pitch. Mel Morris is a Godsend, end of. Folk pitching FF, Chester, Kodija and Wells forget that Ince scored 11 in 18 games first season and that Martin has notched 52 goals in 3 seasons and cost us nothing, whilst Keogh, who has endured some properly low-rent abuse (likewise his wife), was our POTY and has stayed loyal nonetheless. While I would agree that the squad can be strengthened I feel that the existing roster with guidance and staunch support can give anyone in the division a game. I'm equally certain that self-entitled bitching will only create more pressure for a team that needs a bit of love. After the follies of last season we simply must be certain that anyone we bring in will add to the team. Equally, we should be sure that anyone we let go will not. Big up you fellow Rams fans. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Don't agree with all of that, but I sure agree with the sentiment. Silly season gets sillier every year, and ever window people want us to smash our transfer record for good players, but who aren't necessarily any better than what we've got, and at the same time forgetting completely the qualities of the good players we have here already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 1 minute ago, needles said: Don't agree with all of that, but I sure agree with the sentiment. Silly season gets sillier every year, and ever window people want us to smash our transfer record for good players, but who aren't necessarily any better than what we've got, and at the same time forgetting completely the qualities of the good players we have here already. Surely you half-agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, eddie said: Surely you half-agree? I'm 50% sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half fan Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 I seem to have appointed 86 points as my ghost writer. Well scripted, sir! I will share the royalties with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 14 minutes ago, needles said: I'm 50% sure of that. Quarter fan then, needles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 8 hours ago, 86 points said: I've been on this forum for a season or so now and I don't claim to have the encyclopaedic knowledge of many. I don't have a season ticket and only make half a dozen games a year these days so nor do I claim to know more than those who fork out hard-earned to support the team they love, home and away. Props to all of you. I don't pretend to understand better than the gaffer or the season ticket holders what formation we should play, nor can I claim to know who is capable of playing 'the right formation' whatever that might be. But this is what I think, for what it's worth. Chris Martin is a quality striker. He's proven in that he scores plenty and creates a good few too. Those who criticise him for being sulky when things don't go his way are missing the point. Why should we expect him to grin like an idiot when things are going wrong? Tom Ince has mad skills. He smiles plenty when we play well and as with Martin, I'd worry more if he wasn't grumpy when we don't. In Olsson and Fozzy we have two of the best LBs in the Championship. Bradley Johnson is not a bad player. He's massively short on confidence and struggling badly but cheering when he's subbed doesn't help. Perhaps he'll never prosper at Derby but the vitriol directed at him is over the top. Keogh is a fighter and those who feel he 'always has a mistake in him' would do well to point out a defender who doesn't. When a striker makes a mistake it doesn't cost a goal. He's a heart on sleeve type of player and some of the bile directed at him on this forum must hurt. Jeff Hendrick has not achieved what he should with his ability but he just might if we get behind him. His performances for Ireland show what he can do without the weight of expectation on his back. Will Hughes is pure class. I'd not swap him for any player in the division, biased or not. I genuinely believe he could play any position on the pitch so let's not assume he can't play in a 4-4-2 until proven otherwise. We did not overpay for Jacob Butterfield. After a tricky start where he looked a little overawed and a season where IMO he was massively underused, he's come out swinging. I respect that and have a hunch that he could silence the doubters in true style this year. Expect 8 to 10 goals from him this season if he's a regular starter. Craig Bryson is not 'past it'. It's harder to get match fit as you get older but he just might show us the Bryson of old this season. Nigel Pearson is not a fool. In weaker Championships we've been found out playing 4-3-3 so let's make up our minds. Pretty football or promotion? Boro, Burnley and co have shown that expecting both might be unrealistic. To expect him to have the team flying in a 4-4-2 after pre-season and one game is just plain silly. The team will play better if we get off their backs and support them rather than jumping on every mistake. Being hyper-critical does not and never will improve our performances on the pitch. Mel Morris is a Godsend, end of. Folk pitching FF, Chester, Kodija and Wells forget that Ince scored 11 in 18 games first season and that Martin has notched 52 goals in 3 seasons and cost us nothing, whilst Keogh, who has endured some properly low-rent abuse (likewise his wife), was our POTY and has stayed loyal nonetheless. While I would agree that the squad can be strengthened I feel that the existing roster with guidance and staunch support can give anyone in the division a game. I'm equally certain that self-entitled bitching will only create more pressure for a team that needs a bit of love. After the follies of last season we simply must be certain that anyone we bring in will add to the team. Equally, we should be sure that anyone we let go will not. Big up you fellow Rams fans. COYR Great post. Completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 1 hour ago, jono said: Great post. Completely agree. No half measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 57 minutes ago, eddie said: No half measures. Well I am a half fan after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyDCFC Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Absolutely spot on. I'm not MM's biggest fan (I'm naturally suspicious of big business men owning clubs that they 'support') but he's winning me over. Other than that, everything you've said is absolutely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 12 hours ago, 86 points said: Nigel Pearson is not a fool. In weaker Championships we've been found out playing 4-3-3 so let's make up our minds. Pretty football or promotion? Boro, Burnley and co have shown that expecting both might be unrealistic. To expect him to have the team flying in a 4-4-2 after pre-season and one game is just plain silly. Pretty football please If I'm buying a season ticket and paying train fares up from London every other week I'd really like the football I watch to be enjoyable at the end... But that's just me... Other than that completely agree with your points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: Pretty football please If I'm buying a season ticket and paying train fares up from London every other week I'd really like the football I watch to be enjoyable at the end... But that's just me... Other than that completely agree with your points... I suppose I've made it sound like the two things are mutually exclusive and I'm probably wrong about that on reflection. Seem to remember Leicester playing us off the park the year they went up and it wasn't pure smash and grab. Take your point though and I guess that's the difference between those who can make most of the games and the likes of me who make very few. It's a lot easier for me to be results-driven though after our last foray into the premiership, I do wonder whether I should be careful what I wish for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 1 minute ago, 86 points said: I suppose I've made it sound like the two things are mutually exclusive and I'm probably wrong about that on reflection. Seem to remember Leicester playing us off the park the year they went up and it wasn't pure smash and grab. Take your point though and I guess that's the difference between those who can make most of the games and the likes of me who make very few. It's a lot easier for me to be results-driven though after our last foray into the premiership, I do wonder whether I should be careful what I wish for! I'm actually not too worried about HOW we play the pretty football... I just want it to be exciting! If we play 4-4-2 and it's all fast attacking play up the wing and piling in crosses for Martin, Bent etc to get on the end of I'm fine with that... It's still fun... The first 5 or 10 mins on Saturday were electric... However pretty much the rest of the game was dire... It was like having Clement back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I'm actually not too worried about HOW we play the pretty football... I just want it to be exciting! If we play 4-4-2 and it's all fast attacking play up the wing and piling in crosses for Martin, Bent etc to get on the end of I'm fine with that... It's still fun... The first 5 or 10 mins on Saturday were electric... However pretty much the rest of the game was dire... It was like having Clement back... Maybe it's my imagination (or dodgy memory) but I'm pretty sure under McLaren we were able to do both. That is play the ball to feet and retain possession, but also to break forward at speed when opponents lost the ball. I guess that would be ideal. It seems to be that a lot on here think 4-4-2 intrinsically means 'direct' so it will be interesting to see how the season progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 @86 points has many valid points, and even though I disagree with what many think about Keogh, I cannot really argue with the simple facts you put forward. I'm with you in so much as this club needs the 'feel-good factor'. Without it, we won't succeed. That feelgood factor is the difference between "encouraging" Ince/Johnson/Russell etc when they try something special but get dispossessed, and "groaning" when they try but lose the ball. The best fans in the country, like it or not, are Man United fans, and they encourage their players. When the likes of Giggs all those years back, and Lee Sharpe before him, were trying to take on a man, they didn't ALWAYS get past the man, but United fans didn't groan the way Derby fans do when Ince gets tackled. It's shameful. The Derby fans of that back half of 2014, when McClaren had us playing sexy football, were amazing. Even when things didn't work out, the fans applauded, the fans encouraged, the fans were grateful for the effort and excitement. This last 15-18 months or so has seen a change. No longer do fans appreciate effort, they criticise effort without success, and this is detrimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: No longer to fans appreciate effort, they criticise effort without success, and this is detrimental. Yes, yes yes and yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: @86 points has many valid points, and even though I disagree with what many think about Keogh, I cannot really argue with the simple facts you put forward. I'm with you in so much as this club needs the 'feel-good factor'. Without it, we won't succeed. That feelgood factor is the difference between "encouraging" Ince/Johnson/Russell etc when they try something special but get dispossessed, and "groaning" when they try but lose the ball. The best fans in the country, like it or not, are Man United fans, and they encourage their players. When the likes of Giggs all those years back, and Lee Sharpe before him, were trying to take on a man, they didn't ALWAYS get past the man, but United fans didn't groan the way Derby fans do when Ince gets tackled. It's shameful. The Derby fans of that back half of 2014, when McClaren had us playing sexy football, were amazing. Even when things didn't work out, the fans applauded, the fans encouraged, the fans were grateful for the effort and excitement. This last 15-18 months or so has seen a change. No longer to fans appreciate effort, they criticise effort without success, and this is detrimental. We need to model ourselves on the Irish and Icelandic fans at the Euros - utterly unshakeable support during games and some decent chants too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 13 hours ago, 86 points said: I've been on this forum for a season or so now and I don't claim to have the encyclopaedic knowledge of many. I don't have a season ticket and only make half a dozen games a year these days so nor do I claim to know more than those who fork out hard-earned to support the team they love, home and away. Props to all of you. I don't pretend to understand better than the gaffer or the season ticket holders what formation we should play, nor can I claim to know who is capable of playing 'the right formation' whatever that might be. But this is what I think, for what it's worth. Chris Martin is a quality striker. He's proven in that he scores plenty and creates a good few too. Those who criticise him for being sulky when things don't go his way are missing the point. Why should we expect him to grin like an idiot when things are going wrong? Tom Ince has mad skills. He smiles plenty when we play well and as with Martin, I'd worry more if he wasn't grumpy when we don't. In Olsson and Fozzy we have two of the best LBs in the Championship. Bradley Johnson is not a bad player. He's massively short on confidence and struggling badly but cheering when he's subbed doesn't help. Perhaps he'll never prosper at Derby but the vitriol directed at him is over the top. Keogh is a fighter and those who feel he 'always has a mistake in him' would do well to point out a defender who doesn't. When a striker makes a mistake it doesn't cost a goal. He's a heart on sleeve type of player and some of the bile directed at him on this forum must hurt. Jeff Hendrick has not achieved what he should with his ability but he just might if we get behind him. His performances for Ireland show what he can do without the weight of expectation on his back. Will Hughes is pure class. I'd not swap him for any player in the division, biased or not. I genuinely believe he could play any position on the pitch so let's not assume he can't play in a 4-4-2 until proven otherwise. We did not overpay for Jacob Butterfield. After a tricky start where he looked a little overawed and a season where IMO he was massively underused, he's come out swinging. I respect that and have a hunch that he could silence the doubters in true style this year. Expect 8 to 10 goals from him this season if he's a regular starter. Craig Bryson is not 'past it'. It's harder to get match fit as you get older but he just might show us the Bryson of old this season. Nigel Pearson is not a fool. In weaker Championships we've been found out playing 4-3-3 so let's make up our minds. Pretty football or promotion? Boro, Burnley and co have shown that expecting both might be unrealistic. To expect him to have the team flying in a 4-4-2 after pre-season and one game is just plain silly. The team will play better if we get off their backs and support them rather than jumping on every mistake. Being hyper-critical does not and never will improve our performances on the pitch. Mel Morris is a Godsend, end of. Folk pitching FF, Chester, Kodija and Wells forget that Ince scored 11 in 18 games first season and that Martin has notched 52 goals in 3 seasons and cost us nothing, whilst Keogh, who has endured some properly low-rent abuse (likewise his wife), was our POTY and has stayed loyal nonetheless. While I would agree that the squad can be strengthened I feel that the existing roster with guidance and staunch support can give anyone in the division a game. I'm equally certain that self-entitled bitching will only create more pressure for a team that needs a bit of love. After the follies of last season we simply must be certain that anyone we bring in will add to the team. Equally, we should be sure that anyone we let go will not. Big up you fellow Rams fans. COYR I love you, can we have babies together I absolutely love bullet points, all it needed was a pie chart and I would have been in utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 I'm a full fan so I doubly agree! I am hoping that the football will improve once the squad get used to what they are being asked to do.I'm also braced for maybe waving goodbye to some of my favourite players but looking forward to future heroes. So I will be encouraging the team, start to finish, tomorrow and throughout the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, 86 points said: Maybe it's my imagination (or dodgy memory) but I'm pretty sure under McLaren we were able to do both. That is play the ball to feet and retain possession, but also to break forward at speed when opponents lost the ball. I guess that would be ideal. It seems to be that a lot on here think 4-4-2 intrinsically means 'direct' so it will be interesting to see how the season progresses. Yeh I agree... Whilst I kinda understood where Mel was coming from when he sacked Smacca I still think that set us back massively... I think if we'd had him last season we would have finished higher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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