Stive Pesley Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 21 hours ago, SaintRam said: Doesn't mean I don't have a problem with things being literally tortured for sport. If I wanted my sport to involve torture then I'd support Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, StivePesley said: If I wanted my sport to involve torture then I'd support Forest my missus likes torture but she is a good sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Whats the deal with the bull running? What happens to them after they've done running? That seems a tad more stupid on the part of the humans or equal for the bulls depending on your point of view as they don't have the picadores jabbing them in the neck with lances so that the poor bulls cannot keep their heads up. Its another outdated tradition like fox hunting in my limited metropolitan view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Hope this would happen more often. ******* ****** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagaram Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Now if you want to hear about real animal torture start reading about halal butchery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/bullfighting/bull-running-festivals This is what happens, it's really beyond cruel. It should definately be made illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, Malagaram said: Now if you want to hear about real animal torture start reading about halal butchery Ha! Good luck getting any traction with that one. Animal rights activists tend to be left leaning and all come down with a severe case of cultural relativism when halal is mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Malagaram said: Now if you want to hear about real animal torture start reading about halal butchery I don't know much about it, my understanding is the animal is put through agony in order to frighten it so much that the adrenaline floods the blood and makes the meat taste better. I'll stick with mustard on my steak thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 As much as i hate all blood sports and would never attend any, i have to admit that as someone who eats meat, my arguments against them are substantially weakened. After all i don't need to eat meat, but i do it because i enjoy it..and i feel it improves my lifestyle. Those who engage in bullfighting, foxhunting and so on, don't need to do so either...but they enjoy it and they feel it improves their lifestyle. So as meateaters we are left in a position where it's nearly impossible to argue that animals can't be killed for the purposes of entertainment. All we can do is say that it's important that every effort is made to make sure that the animals don't suffer on our behalf, which is a strong argument against blood sports, but is it also an argument against the manner in which some animals are farmed for our meat ? Why anyone would be entertained by those 'sports' is another matter, at least i can understand why people like the taste of meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 On 10/07/2016 at 11:47, JoetheRam said: I understand it is painful and barbaric towards the animal but the end result is the same, and it's not good news for the cattle either way. It's a tough question, and I can see the merits to both sides of the arguement, but I think if you eat meat, there is a limit to how deeply you can actually care about animal welfare. Interesting thread this. I eat meat and I have worked in animal welfare for the past 16 years and care deeply about them. The only meat I eat is fish and venison / game animals. It is achievable to do both without feeling remorse IMO. If we are to assume that we are part of the animal kingdom then it's reasonable to suggest that if we were cavemen (as we once were) then we should think nothing of going out of an evening and spearing a giraffe (other animals are available). Just as the lion catches and sticks it's gnashers into a wildebeest who, up until then had lived a perfectly happy and confinement free wild life. On those terms it's like for like. That's why I eat deer / game. The animal gets to live as wild and and natural life as is possible without artificial feed and growth hormones / antibiotics shoved down it's neck, without being bred over generations to carry more meat / milk than it's skeletal structure is meant for, without being kept in inhumane and unnatural confinement and without being rounded up, driven 100 miles down the M1, emptied out, forced into a slaughterhouse and it's life ended in clinical circumstances. It's not the act of the bolt being administered to end the animals life that's the cruelty bit - it's everything that went before. For game animals, one day it's having a chat with it's mates down the river and the next Jurgen Klopp the gamekeeper rocks up and BOOM! No suffering before the event and if the gamekeeper is any good then none after either. It's sad that the deer for example has to die but if I was in the Serengeti just strolling around whistling Steve Bloomer's watching then i'd probably end up as a meal too so it's horses for courses. Well, deers in this case. Fish swim in the sea and then they get landed and brought aboard where they suffer momentarily whilst they suffocate. Again, it's sad but up until the fish was caught it lived a full and wild life. I only eat wild caught fish. Farmed fish, especially the salmon that is commonplace at the supermarkets, are reared in claustrophobic inshore cages that are overstocked without the freedom to swim naturally (hence the huge lines of fat you get all over a normal salmon fillet - compare wild Alaskan salmon who have lived a wild life and accumulated no fatty tissue to farmed salmon and it's not even the same colour never mind the same fish ). Farmed fish are kept in a controlled environment, controlled by humans, fed manufactured feed by humans and reared to support an ever growing demand for cheap food. These fish are fed antibiotics as they live in such close proximity to one another and are susceptible to lice and all sorts of infections / aquatic bacteria. Their soft flesh absorbs multiple chemicals from the waters including PCB's which are persistent carcinogenic chemical compounds and these accumulate within the fatty lines and ridges of the salmon fillets. Basically I wouldn't eat farmed fish if it were free. Wild fish are also subject to contaminants especially tuna and larger fish such as swordfish, king mackerel who eat lots of smaller fish who also have contaminants in their bodies particularly heavy metals such as mercury and cadmium and when the bigger fish eat these smaller fish their toxic burden increases exponentially with biomagnification leading to the tuna and stuff that you buy in the shops poisoning you when you eat them. Stick to small fish and white fish and never farmed IMO. If there ever was a time where I would eat a farmed animal then at the very least it would have to be a herd animal kept in vast fields, fed only a grass based natural diet - no supplementation, it would have no antibiotics or injections or anything and it would have to be slaughtered in exactly the same spot where it likes to frequent and not subjected to the horrific trauma of transport/slaughter in front of it's herd mates. My argument I have with people is about companion versus farm animals. For some reason if someone sees someone being cruel to a cat or dog they'll get incensed and report it. Probably because it's fluffy and they can stroke it. Yet these people are perfectly happy for farmers, commercial enterprises and slaughterhouses to do the same to a cow, pig, chicken, duck, goose, sheep or whatever and they'll buy it and eat it. I'm not passing judgement on anybody here but simply wondering why this happens? On the one hand they care about animals because they don't like to see a load of delinquent youths knocking the hell out of a defenceless moggy but then they'll go to the shops and buy some battery eggs or indoor reared bacon from Holland. I don't eat eggs either. Purely because it's only females that can lay. Males once born get gassed because they can't produce. Again, it's a very very interesting debate about what we eat and it's an absolute minefield. I'm just saying the above is how I eat and I have no right to force my beliefs onto anyone else so please do not read this and think i'm a bit of an arse. I'm a working class lad on minimum wage. I'm not a 'foodie' or 'toff' or anything like that but just take an interest in what I put in my body. Oh and bullfighting. It belongs in the dark ages IMO. Tradition or not - it's 2016 and totally unnecessary however I'm not going to criticise anyone who likes going or whatever - it's just my opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 19 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: A lot of interesting stuff. Good post Tony. I think what I was trying to articulate or would have articulated if I'd bothered to answer the topic properly, was that I don't see bull fighting as particularly more inhumane than the way most animals are treated that end up on our plates. Sure, it's not nice that the bull suffers for 20 minutes whilst a bloke in a cape jabs spikes into it, in the name of entertainment, but I'd wager that most of the folks who decry bull fighting aren't bothered that their Sunday Roast probably suffered for far longer. Most livestock bred for the supermarkets live in miserable conditions for their entire lives, but because their deaths are instantaneous, 'we' see this as being treated with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 1 hour ago, JoetheRam said: Good post Tony. I think what I was trying to articulate or would have articulated if I'd bothered to answer the topic properly, was that I don't see bull fighting as particularly more inhumane than the way most animals are treated that end up on our plates. Sure, it's not nice that the bull suffers for 20 minutes whilst a bloke in a cape jabs spikes into it, in the name of entertainment, but I'd wager that most of the folks who decry bull fighting aren't bothered that their Sunday Roast probably suffered for far longer. Most livestock bred for the supermarkets live in miserable conditions for their entire lives, but because their deaths are instantaneous, 'we' see this as being treated with respect. Ok, i am no expert but, your example of roast dinner, when i go out walking i see cows in fields, they look ok to me. I do not know for sure but how bad can this be for them? That said i accept there must be some bad practices, but i wonder how bad they can be compared with how a bull is treated, bearing in mind the torture starts several days prior, they are put in a darkened cage, deprived of fluids to weaken them, newspaper put up their nose to restrict airflow, vaseline smeared in their eyes to affect vision...i just cannot imagine farm animals being treated as such. But like anything its about education, maybe if there are any farmers on here they could enlighten us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Killing to eat is fine by me. Killing for entertainment, no thanks. It isn't noble, it's about one step up from bear baiting and dog fighting. ... Guy knew the risks. Sorry for his friends and family but sticking little swords in an animal and "fight" as it weakens .. No thanks. Primitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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