CornwallRam Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: that could be thrown had Wassall not already been an employee of the club. Wassall cannot be accused of talking up his current job when the proof is there for all to see. If Wassall was unemployed or employed elsewhere then your assertion would ring true, but I think you're doing both Wassall and Mel a dis-service here. Mel is no mug, and he's certainly not wanting his investment to shrink further. I don't follow your logic. What difference does him already being employed make to how his conversations with Mel have the potential for influencing the latter's thought? I think that your second sentence is intimating that Wassall has been a great success running the junior teams. I'm not sure that is of particular relevance to managing the first team. Whilst I'm sure that our academy is well run and that Wassall does a very good job, I'm also yet to see the evidence that the quantity or quality of players emerging from it has increased particularly. We've produced about one first team player every two season for the last twenty years and appear to be keeping to that sort of average now. I'm not sure what makes Wassall more impressive that Westley or Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, CornwallRam said: I don't follow your logic. What difference does him already being employed make to how his conversations with Mel have the potential for influencing the latter's thought? I think that your second sentence is intimating that Wassall has been a great success running the junior teams. I'm not sure that is of particular relevance to managing the first team. Whilst I'm sure that our academy is well run and that Wassall does a very good job, I'm also yet to see the evidence that the quantity or quality of players emerging from it has increased particularly. We've produced about one first team player every two season for the last twenty years and appear to be keeping to that sort of average now. I'm not sure what makes Wassall more impressive that Westley or Lowe. you suggested/implied that the influence Wassall had could mislead Mel into thinking Wassall was better at his job than he actually is/was, but the fact Mel can already see the job DW is doing means that is not the case. If that is not what you are implying, than I don't understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: you suggested/implied that the influence Wassall had could mislead Mel into thinking Wassall was better at his job than he actually is/was, but the fact Mel can already see the job DW is doing means that is not the case. If that is not what you are implying, than I don't understand your point. But Wassall was not managing a Championship team - in fact isn't Pat Lyons the U21 manager? Therefore, Mel can only have formed the opinion that Wassall can manage the first team from him being able to 'talk a good fight'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: But Wassall was not managing a Championship team - in fact isn't Pat Lyons the U21 manager? Therefore, Mel can only have formed the opinion that Wassall can manage the first team from him being able to 'talk a good fight'. Cornwall, we are going around in circles, and there is no point, Wassall is Lyons boss and did the job before him. I think Wassall has a bit about him, I may be wrong, it has happened before, but no often I think Mel is scarred by PC's lack of knowledge, and perhaps worries another manager will come in and not know what he has at his disposal, Wassall... is trusted, and highly regarded. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 15 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Cornwall, we are going around in circles, and there is no point, Wassall is Lyons boss and did the job before him. I think Wassall has a bit about him, I may be wrong, it has happened before, but no often I think Mel is scarred by PC's lack of knowledge, and perhaps worries another manager will come in and not know what he has at his disposal, Wassall... is trusted, and highly regarded. Time will tell. I don't think that Wassall will succeed, but have acknowledged that there is a chance he will, and if he does, then he will have earned the job - but that chance should initially be two or three games, not sixteen. Mel may well be scarred by Clement's lack of knowledge, but that's Mel's own fault for appointing someone with no knowledge or interest in the Championship. At the time I mentioned that Clement's idea of putting the start of pre-season back by a week was a questionable one - surely he would want to spend as much time as possible getting to know the squad. To me, that just suggests that Mel needs to stop being innovative in his choice of management and structure and get a manager proven in the Championship in straight away so they can get to know the players. Getting a manager in in June will just risk the same problems - they will have to make judgements on our players without having seen them at close hand in competitive matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHomunculusLives Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 If you look at our managerial appointments over the past decade or so, arguably the most successful have been proven Championship/Premiership level coaches - Burley, Davies (whatever happened later, he still got us up) and McClaren all made us very competitive at the top end of the table quickly. Jewell being the one exception although the club was in pretty dire straits overall back then. Greener coaches such as Brown, Clement (however premature his dismissal might have been) and ultimately Clough were, in pure Championship performance terms, less successful appointments. I want to see a proven man in charge who knows what it takes to get out of this league, rather than someone who might be a good long term bet but equally might be out of their depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 7 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: sorry, didn't see this as you didn't quote me. At one point, EVERY manager was inexperienced as a manager. a few years ago Rodgers was in EXACTLY the same scenario. How did you feel when Dave Mackay was given the job? (assuming you're older than me), he had zero coaching experience let alone first team. Why don't you just wind it in a bit and give Wassall a chance ffs! If you're a real Derby fan, you'll know that without doubt, nothing guarantees anything at this club! We could bring in the world's greatest manager and achieve nothing, so try being a bit loyal for once and giving the guy longer than 90 minutes to decide. I see it must be your thing to accuse people of not being proper fans or having no loyalty if they disagree with your opinion so I won't rise to the bait , my point was answering your quote that stated wassell is not inexperienced ,,, he is clearly massively inexperienced for the post he has taken up , now if your belief is that he will go on to do a job and be totally up to it despite that inexperience the I will respect that view , mines differs from yours but time will tell you pays your money you takes your pick , as I've clearly stated my biggest concern is the motivation in appointing two totally inexperienced for the post they are taking up coaches in a row is a worry , if that makes me not a proper fan or someone with no loyalty in your eyes I'm not gonna lose too much sleep over it , throwing insults just means you are unable to respect others views if they don't match your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 According to Sportscene talk in......Wassall should be thrown under the bus right now, the bus reverse back over a couple of times to make sure and Mel should apologise unreservedly then commit hari kari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 6 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: According to Sportscene talk in......Wassall should be thrown under the bus right now, the bus reverse back over a couple of times to make sure and Mel should apologise unreservedly then commit hari kari. Didn't realise I was live on air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 7 hours ago, CornwallRam said: I don't think that Wassall will succeed, but have acknowledged that there is a chance he will, and if he does, then he will have earned the job - but that chance should initially be two or three games, not sixteen. Mel may well be scarred by Clement's lack of knowledge, but that's Mel's own fault for appointing someone with no knowledge or interest in the Championship. At the time I mentioned that Clement's idea of putting the start of pre-season back by a week was a questionable one - surely he would want to spend as much time as possible getting to know the squad. To me, that just suggests that Mel needs to stop being innovative in his choice of management and structure and get a manager proven in the Championship in straight away so they can get to know the players. Getting a manager in in June will just risk the same problems - they will have to make judgements on our players without having seen them at close hand in competitive matches. This is exactly my perspective. It is pretty naive to give a new manager (assuming it isn't Wassall, which I am sure it won't be) a pre-season then the first ten games of next season to bed in his squad, when we have the tail end of the this disappointing season to use for it. If Pearson came in now he could set his stall out nice and early with the players: 'what has gone, has gone - fresh start. For the remaining games, go and prove to me that you're worth a spot in the squad next season'. If the play-offs come hand in hand with that then so be it, and even more the worthwhile in the change in manager. What I predict if we persist with Wassall until the end of the season is another questionable start to the campaign, as the new manager feels his way into the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Could only happen to us , what should be heaven , new owner , loves the club, pots of doe and happy to invest in the club and things somehow descend into a clusterfuck,,,, any true Derby fan with a minimum of fourth five years service will know what I mean,,, got to smile ain't we ,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 19 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: According to Sportscene talk in......Wassall should be thrown under the bus right now, the bus reverse back over a couple of times to make sure and Mel should apologise unreservedly then commit hari kari. After 1 game playing a (horrible stiff) formation that loads of fans were asking for? Wish Derby fans would chill. What they in such a rush over? Although if I could dig a hole and bury 442 then I would. There's more freedom in North Korea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 If Saturday was anything to go by not long hopefully. Nothing personal but please not long. Surely we should look at getting our target in now and let them work the squad until end of the season to get a feel of which players he likes and which he wants gone, that way at least it would give him a head start come the summer. Unless our target is under contract. If we are writing this season off can I claim 1/3 of the cost of my season ticket back? Just don't like the way we are going at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statham512 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Not any longer please I dont want to go grey at 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 6 minutes ago, Alpha said: After 1 game playing a (horrible stiff) formation that loads of fans were asking for? Wish Derby fans would chill. What they in such a rush over? Although if I could dig a hole and bury 442 then I would. There's more freedom in North Korea What about 352. Olsson and Christie might suit wingback. Bucko in at CB with Shacks and Keogh Then midfield options are plentiful Ince behind Martin and Blackman lets be honest non of the wide players have done well this season consistently so maybe try something different. Anything has got to be an improvement on Saturdays 442 debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 hour ago, ollycutts1982 said: What about 352. Olsson and Christie might suit wingback. Bucko in at CB with Shacks and Keogh Then midfield options are plentiful Ince behind Martin and Blackman lets be honest non of the wide players have done well this season consistently so maybe try something different. Anything has got to be an improvement on Saturdays 442 debacle. Can you see these players clicking soon under any system? Think they've lost their way a bit now. Whatever we go with I think it's best that we are consistent with it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCArmy Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'd be happy to see him given until the end of the season, its obvious we're not gonna make autos and SW should be given that time at least. I'm still adamant that Pearson is perfect for this job though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Pearson will want his way not "the Derby way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trom50 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I really hope I'm proved wrong but just don't think DW has the man management experience to handle the senior pros, its a totally different scenario to managing the u21s who are learning with your knowledge. If the players are not totally committed to what he says you can soon get dissenting voices and player power takes over, how many of the first team have come out behind Wassall? even the special one suffered when the senior players turned against him. A strong character is needed to lead Derby forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The core of the squad are now working for their 4th. manager in less than 3 seasons - and that excludes their previous clubs and internationals.............. come the summer it will be 5 !! The new players have had little chance to settle into any consistency. No wonder there is befuddlement in the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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