Where do we go from here?

admira · February 3, 2016

We’ve all been analysing where things have gone wrong for us recently and what we can do about it so here is my two-penny worth.

I’m sure I am not the only one who a few weeks ago was getting complacent, thinking a draw was a bad result and how we were going to ease ourselves to promotion. But teams don’t win all the time, things can’t always be good and life isn’t like that either. There was always going to be a bad patch and this is it. It will just take that little bit of luck, maybe a fortuitous penalty or a loose ball falling to a Derby players feet and we go ahead in a game. The heads will rise, the confidence levels will start to grow and we will be on our way. Maybe the catalyst to this will be the return of Will Hughes. God knows we need that creative spark right now. Whatever it is, sooner or later it WILL happen.

So, where did it all go wrong? In my opinion, it’s when Chris Martin stopped scoring goals. It’s now 16 games and 24 hours of football since his last goal from open play. Imagine the pressure he must be feeling? Apart from his first few games in a Rams shirt, he has scored for us consistently. With every game that passes, he must feel that pressure increasing. He knows scoring goals is his job, it’s why he is in the team and to coin a cliché, ‘goals win games’.

Now imagine that’s you at work, not delivering, not doing the job you are paid to do. But you have 25,000 people watching you fail. I feel nothing but sorry for the guy but what can Clement do about it? He rested Martin for one half but did that make him feel relieved or de-motivated? Who knows? He bought in Blackman, a proven goal scorer at this level (for this season at least), but instead of replacing Martin during his lean spell, he plays him too but out of position. He leaves Bent a 200 goal career striker out of the squad when we are crying out for goals. What of the rest of the team’s contribution? It’s pretty damning. Weimann had a purple patch, went off the boil and hasn’t been seen since. Ince bangs in a few, Johnson who arrived with a reputation of scoring goals from midfield haven’t delivered, Butters gets the odd few and that’s about it. Bryson who used to score regularly hardly gets on the pitch and Russell has dried up too.

Think back to last season. When Martin had his spell out, Bent came in and scored goals at a similar rate. Once he was out too, we were out of options. Russell played up front, didn’t score and we stopped winning. It’s no different this time round.

We all bemoaned Macca as not having a plan B. It looked like Clement did at first but that’s looking less likely now. For the Bristol City game, Ince played in a central role and banged in a hat trick. Why are we not doing that again, putting Bent or Blackman as the number 9, starting Razza instead of a late sub? Calls for Cement’s head are ridiculous though. A few weeks ago we thought he was one of the best bosses we’d ever had and things don’t change that quickly. He is still learning the ropes in his first job as Head Coach.

The important thing is for everyone at the club to stick together thorough this lean spell, the players, the fans, the boss and Mel. We still only have 5 defeats, we are still 4th and there is a long way to go. Let’s hope and pray that the little bit of luck comes at Craven Cottage. COYR.

Van der MoodHoover · February 3, 2016

Cravenue cottage was where it all started to unravel last season for me.

So it would be delicious karma if it was the inflexion point in the opposite direction this season.

February 3, 2016

I'm afraid in my opinion things aren't just going to change with a lucky win. Things are fundamentally wrong.

Team selection and formation are both wrong in my opinion.

Clement is also struggling to make a difference during matches.

Last night was a perfect example. The game was crying out for Olsson but he rigidly stuck to something that wasn't working.

His defiance and stubbornness seems to be a trip down memory lane.

He needs to start learning and fast. He started to lose fans and fast and, as Phil Brown found out, there is no coming back from that.

To see fans streaming for the exits from the 80th minute should be ringing alarm bells for him, and rather than saying only the South Stand are supportive he should be thinking what he can do to get all of the fans onside.

tomsdubs · February 3, 2016

The players don't seem to actually understand what they are doing, it's fundamental training ground tactics. There's no link ups, no runners in between the lines for them to look for. Safe balls played when the forwards have bust a gut to get forward. 11 strangers on a pitch. I'm in shock at how bad this is to be honest.

sage · February 3, 2016

4 minutes ago, admira said:

We’ve all been analysing where things have gone wrong for us recently and what we can do about it so here is my two-penny worth.

I’m sure I am not the only one who a few weeks ago was getting complacent, thinking a draw was a bad result and how we were going to ease ourselves to promotion. But teams don’t win all the time, things can’t always be good and life isn’t like that either. There was always going to be a bad patch and this is it. It will just take that little bit of luck, maybe a fortuitous penalty or a loose ball falling to a Derby players feet and we go ahead in a game. The heads will rise, the confidence levels will start to grow and we will be on our way. Maybe the catalyst to this will be the return of Will Hughes. God knows we need that creative spark right now. Whatever it is, sooner or later it WILL happen.

So, where did it all go wrong? In my opinion, it’s when Chris Martin stopped scoring goals. It’s now 16 games and 24 hours of football since his last goal from open play. Imagine the pressure he must be feeling? Apart from his first few games in a Rams shirt, he has scored for us consistently. With every game that passes, he must feel that pressure increasing. He knows scoring goals is his job, it’s why he is in the team and to coin a cliché, ‘goals win games’.

Now imagine that’s you at work, not delivering, not doing the job you are paid to do. But you have 25,000 people watching you fail. I feel nothing but sorry for the guy but what can Clement do about it? He rested Martin for one half but did that make him feel relieved or de-motivated? Who knows? He bought in Blackman, a proven goal scorer at this level (for this season at least), but instead of replacing Martin during his lean spell, he plays him too but out of position. He leaves Bent a 200 goal career striker out of the squad when we are crying out for goals. What of the rest of the team’s contribution? It’s pretty damning. Weimann had a purple patch, went off the boil and hasn’t been seen since. Ince bangs in a few, Johnson who arrived with a reputation of scoring goals from midfield haven’t delivered, Butters gets the odd few and that’s about it. Bryson who used to score regularly hardly gets on the pitch and Russell has dried up too.

Think back to last season. When Martin had his spell out, Bent came in and scored goals at a similar rate. Once he was out too, we were out of options. Russell played up front, didn’t score and we stopped winning. It’s no different this time round.

We all bemoaned Macca as not having a plan B. It looked like Clement did at first but that’s looking less likely now. For the Bristol City game, Ince played in a central role and banged in a hat trick. Why are we not doing that again, putting Bent or Blackman as the number 9, starting Razza instead of a late sub? Calls for Cement’s head are ridiculous though. A few weeks ago we thought he was one of the best bosses we’d ever had and things don’t change that quickly. He is still learning the ropes in his first job as Head Coach.

The important thing is for everyone at the club to stick together thorough this lean spell, the players, the fans, the boss and Mel. We still only have 5 defeats, we are still 4th and there is a long way to go. Let’s hope and pray that the little bit of luck comes at Craven Cottage. COYR.

Ask yourself why Martin isn't scoring. The problems start way before the ball gets anywhere near him. When we got balls into his feet yesterday in the second half, we started to look like scoring. In my opinion our problems, to varying degrees are;

1. Carson never releases the ball early to launch counter attacks (minor)

2. Christie is just awful. Can't hold a defensive position, keeps giving the ball away and never creates a chance.

3. We miss Forsyth, Warnock is one of our better players at the minute, creating 3 good opportunities in the first half yesterday, but we miss the balance of a forward running full back when the outside left (let's not pretend we have wingers) tucks inside.

4. Keogh has been one of our best players this year and injects urgency into our game, however the opposition are now starting to stand their CF in front of him leaving space in front of...

5. Shackell, who whilst a good defender cannot play football. He can't pass and is ponderous in possession slowing the game down so the opposition can get into position. Is it worth sacrificing his class to put (a not completely fit) Bucko in who can start attacks

6. Thorne is now playing too deep to try and solve problems 4/5 and is also not quite passing at the top of his game, Never seen him with such a low pass accuracy rate,

7. Johnson has been poor from around his 7th game for us onwards. Slows the whole process down and plays too deep. Hendrick did ok yesterday but never takes the game by the scruff of the neck. Bryson could yet get his chance

8. Butterfield has been one of our brighter players, but still doesn't make enough forward runs, doesn't get beyond Martin. Thorne's goal v Man U should be the kind of goal Butterfield is scoring

9. Ince has some talent but has been a bad signing IMO. I know that is a controversial statement, but I feel he stymies the team by the way he plays. I don't think he's lazy or particularly greedy it's just the way he plays is quite insular and sellf-focussed. However his situation isn't helped by the slow tempo of the side meaning by the time he gets the ball he has 2 players in front of him.

10. Blackman isn't a left winger. His success at reading this year was playing outside right and cutting in on his left foot to shoot. we already have Ince doing that and is better at it. A puzzling purchase. Camara looks very raw, naive and too eager to please. Can't see him anything other than a last 15 minutes gamble, however it's early days. Russell is a better player for our style but some poor form in Nov/Dec has seen him pushed out. If you want to add my favourite purchase weimann to the mix we have now spent around £12m on 4 left footed wise forwards in the last 8 months, when we already had one. Fooked up recruitment.

11. Martin isn't scoring and to be honest is barely having attempts on goal. However when we do get the ball to his feet and support him he creates good opportunities. He also suffers when the tempo is slow. he is the fulcrum with runners fizzing around him.

We have lots of problems. The main one is our appalling recruitment over the last 12 months. Not only have we overpaid for players, we have bought the wrong type of player and players who are no bettter than what we have, how can you hope to have a cohesive dressing room and club when you bring 13 players in in less than a year.

I remember saying to my mate in June we just need a good left winger (McCormack/Pritchard standard), a good right back (Brayford standard or higher) and a back up for Martin. 7 months, 13 players and £25m later we are still in exactly the same position.

NottsRammy · February 3, 2016

21 minutes ago, sage said:

Ask yourself why Martin isn't scoring. The problems start way before the ball gets anywhere near him. When we got balls into his feet yesterday in the second half, we started to look like scoring. In my opinion our problems, to varying degrees are;

1. Carson never releases the ball early to launch counter attacks (minor)

2. Christie is just awful. Can't hold a defensive position, keeps giving the ball away and never creates a chance.

3. We miss Forsyth, Warnock is one of our better players at the minute, creating 3 good opportunities in the first half yesterday, but we miss the balance of a forward running full back when the outside left (let's not pretend we have wingers) tucks inside.

4. Keogh has been one of our best players this year and injects urgency into our game, however the opposition are now starting to stand their CF in front of him leaving space in front of...

5. Shackell, who whilst a good defender cannot play football. He can't pass and is ponderous in possession slowing the game down so the opposition can get into position. Is it worth sacrificing his class to put (a not completely fit) Bucko in who can start attacks

6. Thorne is now playing too deep to try and solve problems 4/5 and is also not quite passing at the top of his game, Never seen him with such a low pass accuracy rate,

7. Johnson has been poor from around his 7th game for us onwards. Slows the whole process down and plays too deep. Hendrick did ok yesterday but never takes the game by the scruff of the neck. Bryson could yet get his chance

8. Butterfield has been one of our brighter players, but still doesn't make enough forward runs, doesn't get beyond Martin. Thorne's goal v Man U should be the kind of goal Butterfield is scoring

9. Ince has some talent but has been a bad signing IMO. I know that is a controversial statement, but I feel he stymies the team by the way he plays. I don't think he's lazy or particularly greedy it's just the way he plays is quite insular and sellf-focussed. However his situation isn't helped by the slow tempo of the side meaning by the time he gets the ball he has 2 players in front of him.

10. Blackman isn't a left winger. His success at reading this year was playing outside right and cutting in on his left foot to shoot. we already have Ince doing that and is better at it. A puzzling purchase. Camara looks very raw, naive and too eager to please. Can't see him anything other than a last 15 minutes gamble, however it's early days. Russell is a better player for our style but some poor form in Nov/Dec has seen him pushed out. If you want to add my favourite purchase weimann to the mix we have now spent around £12m on 4 left footed wise forwards in the last 8 months, when we already had one. Fooked up recruitment.

11. Martin isn't scoring and to be honest is barely having attempts on goal. However when we do get the ball to his feet and support him he creates good opportunities. He also suffers when the tempo is slow. he is the fulcrum with runners fizzing around him.

We have lots of problems. The main one is our appalling recruitment over the last 12 months. Not only have we overpaid for players, we have bought the wrong type of player and players who are no bettter than what we have, how can you hope to have a cohesive dressing room and club when you bring 13 players in in less than a year.

I remember saying to my mate in June we just need a good left winger (McCormack/Pritchard standard), a good right back (Brayford standard or higher) and a back up for Martin. 7 months, 13 players and £25m later we are still in exactly the same position.

Absolutley spot on

sage · February 3, 2016

Can I also add Clement in September said Weimann would struggle to get in the team as he wasn't a a left winger and that is the only place available. We then spent £2.5m? on Blackman. Exactly the same kind of player. Too daft to laugh at.

SkeggyRam · February 3, 2016

look what a change of manager, about a similar time, did last season for Norwich

McMuffin · February 3, 2016

34 minutes ago, SkeggyRam said:

look what a change of manager, about a similar time, did last season for Norwich

If we were to do it they would bloody well have to get it right.

Never liked the bloke but Nigel Pearson would sort us out. That team at the top of the premier league is his team. And he started in league 1!

admira · February 3, 2016

If we changed manager, he would want to bring his own players in and I think we've spent enough for one season. It would be madness to change manager just because we have gone a few games without a win. If we were bottom of the league then maybe.

Gary Teale · February 3, 2016

1. Carson never releases the ball early to launch counter attacks

I must be watching a different game, Carson distributes the ball quicker than any keeper we have had for years

February 3, 2016

I don't agree with the attacks on christie or shackell.

christie nearly walked it in about three times last night. He's providing way more than we are entitled to expect. And shackell is a rock. You'd soon notice the difference if he wasn't there.

otherwise i'd agree with most of the rest except the idea that maccormack is a left winger. He's about as much a left winger as blackman or weimann.

February 3, 2016

18 minutes ago, emjlc02 said:

1. Carson never releases the ball early to launch counter attacks

I must be watching a different game, Carson distributes the ball quicker than any keeper we have had for years

He might do, but still not quick enough sometimes.

Although tbf, the players take their time shifting up pitch which leaves the opposition time to get back too.

And fwiw, I miss Bucko's tenacity. But don't bring him back yet until he's fully fit.

DRBee · February 3, 2016

2 hours ago, admira said:

We’ve all been analysing where things have gone wrong for us recently and what we can do about it so here is my two-penny worth.

I’m sure I am not the only one who a few weeks ago was getting complacent, thinking a draw was a bad result and how we were going to ease ourselves to promotion. But teams don’t win all the time, things can’t always be good and life isn’t like that either. There was always going to be a bad patch and this is it. It will just take that little bit of luck, maybe a fortuitous penalty or a loose ball falling to a Derby players feet and we go ahead in a game. The heads will rise, the confidence levels will start to grow and we will be on our way. Maybe the catalyst to this will be the return of Will Hughes. God knows we need that creative spark right now. Whatever it is, sooner or later it WILL happen.

So, where did it all go wrong? In my opinion, it’s when Chris Martin stopped scoring goals. It’s now 16 games and 24 hours of football since his last goal from open play. Imagine the pressure he must be feeling? Apart from his first few games in a Rams shirt, he has scored for us consistently. With every game that passes, he must feel that pressure increasing. He knows scoring goals is his job, it’s why he is in the team and to coin a cliché, ‘goals win games’.

Now imagine that’s you at work, not delivering, not doing the job you are paid to do. But you have 25,000 people watching you fail. I feel nothing but sorry for the guy but what can Clement do about it? He rested Martin for one half but did that make him feel relieved or de-motivated? Who knows? He bought in Blackman, a proven goal scorer at this level (for this season at least), but instead of replacing Martin during his lean spell, he plays him too but out of position. He leaves Bent a 200 goal career striker out of the squad when we are crying out for goals. What of the rest of the team’s contribution? It’s pretty damning. Weimann had a purple patch, went off the boil and hasn’t been seen since. Ince bangs in a few, Johnson who arrived with a reputation of scoring goals from midfield haven’t delivered, Butters gets the odd few and that’s about it. Bryson who used to score regularly hardly gets on the pitch and Russell has dried up too.

Think back to last season. When Martin had his spell out, Bent came in and scored goals at a similar rate. Once he was out too, we were out of options. Russell played up front, didn’t score and we stopped winning. It’s no different this time round.

We all bemoaned Macca as not having a plan B. It looked like Clement did at first but that’s looking less likely now. For the Bristol City game, Ince played in a central role and banged in a hat trick. Why are we not doing that again, putting Bent or Blackman as the number 9, starting Razza instead of a late sub? Calls for Cement’s head are ridiculous though. A few weeks ago we thought he was one of the best bosses we’d ever had and things don’t change that quickly. He is still learning the ropes in his first job as Head Coach.

The important thing is for everyone at the club to stick together thorough this lean spell, the players, the fans, the boss and Mel. We still only have 5 defeats, we are still 4th and there is a long way to go. Let’s hope and pray that the little bit of luck comes at Craven Cottage. COYR.

What a superficial post ..... to put the blame on Martin not scoring goals shows you can't see the wood for the trees.

Clement has to take the blame for his negative cautious tactics . His interview last night gave the game away when he admitted that he wanted the players to keep playing it back and sideways if there did not seem to be other options. The question is why there are not other options.

As a manager why can't Clement see how stuck we get playing down the right, with Ince so ineffective when he has the ball and lazy in his movements ( last night when he lost the ball he stood still rather than try to get it back ).

Warnock is a major problem in slowing down play and so ineffective and predictable when he gets deep in the opposition half. We did much better when Clement started to play Fossie regularly and we badly miss Fossie's ability to get in crosses from the goal line.

Did you see the match when Blackman played up front in place of Martin ? It was even worse.

We are facing the consequences of our owner selecting " an inexperienced manager who can grow with us " . An owner who is actively interfering in football matters and likes it that way rather than have someone who will tell him what to do.The recent signings look dreadful and it is hard to see how they fit and how they will improve us - whose choice were they?

Who are the 'we' who thought Clement was one of the best bosses we had ever had ??

At the moment Clement looks like 'Phil Brown lite'.

Quote

duncanjwitham · February 3, 2016

13 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I don't agree with the attacks on christie or shackell.

Shackell is a rock. You'd soon notice the difference if he wasn't there.

The problem isn't Shackells 'rock'-ness, defensively he's been fantastic. The problem is the effect his lack of ability on the ball has for our offensive play. Last season, if the ball was passed back into the back 4, it would quickly move from one side to the other and back out again and we'd be attacking again. That quick lateral movement of the ball was a key part of what created space for the rest of the team - you cannot stay compact defensively and still defend the full width of the pitch.

This season, the ball goes into the back 4, and if it goes out through the right side, we're not too bad, Christie and Keogh are both at least okay on the ball. But if it goes to the left, Shackell has to have 2 or 3 touches before the pass, and he struggles to open his body up to pass the ball out to his left at all. And even if he does get it out there, Warnock doesn't push on well enough, and (last night anyway) Blackman pushed so far forward the there was no-one to pass to. By the time we've mucked around with all this, the opposing defence have shuffled across and got set, and we're attacking a wall of yellow (last night again) shirts.

CornwallRam · February 3, 2016

1 hour ago, sage said:

Ask yourself why Martin isn't scoring. The problems start way before the ball gets anywhere near him. When we got balls into his feet yesterday in the second half, we started to look like scoring. In my opinion our problems, to varying degrees are;

1. Carson never releases the ball early to launch counter attacks (minor)

2. Christie is just awful. Can't hold a defensive position, keeps giving the ball away and never creates a chance.

3. We miss Forsyth, Warnock is one of our better players at the minute, creating 3 good opportunities in the first half yesterday, but we miss the balance of a forward running full back when the outside left (let's not pretend we have wingers) tucks inside.

4. Keogh has been one of our best players this year and injects urgency into our game, however the opposition are now starting to stand their CF in front of him leaving space in front of...

5. Shackell, who whilst a good defender cannot play football. He can't pass and is ponderous in possession slowing the game down so the opposition can get into position. Is it worth sacrificing his class to put (a not completely fit) Bucko in who can start attacks

6. Thorne is now playing too deep to try and solve problems 4/5 and is also not quite passing at the top of his game, Never seen him with such a low pass accuracy rate,

7. Johnson has been poor from around his 7th game for us onwards. Slows the whole process down and plays too deep. Hendrick did ok yesterday but never takes the game by the scruff of the neck. Bryson could yet get his chance

8. Butterfield has been one of our brighter players, but still doesn't make enough forward runs, doesn't get beyond Martin. Thorne's goal v Man U should be the kind of goal Butterfield is scoring

9. Ince has some talent but has been a bad signing IMO. I know that is a controversial statement, but I feel he stymies the team by the way he plays. I don't think he's lazy or particularly greedy it's just the way he plays is quite insular and sellf-focussed. However his situation isn't helped by the slow tempo of the side meaning by the time he gets the ball he has 2 players in front of him.

10. Blackman isn't a left winger. His success at reading this year was playing outside right and cutting in on his left foot to shoot. we already have Ince doing that and is better at it. A puzzling purchase. Camara looks very raw, naive and too eager to please. Can't see him anything other than a last 15 minutes gamble, however it's early days. Russell is a better player for our style but some poor form in Nov/Dec has seen him pushed out. If you want to add my favourite purchase weimann to the mix we have now spent around £12m on 4 left footed wise forwards in the last 8 months, when we already had one. Fooked up recruitment.

11. Martin isn't scoring and to be honest is barely having attempts on goal. However when we do get the ball to his feet and support him he creates good opportunities. He also suffers when the tempo is slow. he is the fulcrum with runners fizzing around him.

We have lots of problems. The main one is our appalling recruitment over the last 12 months. Not only have we overpaid for players, we have bought the wrong type of player and players who are no bettter than what we have, how can you hope to have a cohesive dressing room and club when you bring 13 players in in less than a year.

I remember saying to my mate in June we just need a good left winger (McCormack/Pritchard standard), a good right back (Brayford standard or higher) and a back up for Martin. 7 months, 13 players and £25m later we are still in exactly the same position.

I've rarely read a post with which I agree more except the first two points. Carson always looks for the attacking out ball - it is one of his major strengths. I'm quite amazed that anyone who could write so much that I agree with so whole heartedly could put something that is so wrong.

Christie is also not that bad. He has some defensive frailties and his crossing could be better, but he's generally OK.