Rammy1 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Just now, G STAR RAM said: But don't understand why people are saying it is balance? Do we really think PC would stick with a midfield that was unbalanced? The more obvious problem seems to be that the front 3 are not firing. That may be down to the level of service but if anything that is more to do with tactics than a lack of balance. That why the balance could maybe be 4-4-2. 2 wingers service the forwards. We have bags of talent to try with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, Rammy1 said: That why the balance could maybe be 4-4-2. 2 wingers service the forwards. We have bags of talent to try with. So you would stick an extra midfielder in because you think the current balance is too defensive? I thought when Butterfield joined he was being played in a too defensive role but PC seems to now have him playing further forward. If anything now, I would Thorne to be playing his football 10 or 15 yards further forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I'd certainly say it's an issue of balance. We have players trying to do each other's jobs. I've said more than once I'd prefer Hendrick or Bryson in the team alongside Johnson, Hughes or Butterfield. It's not often I'd play two of Johnson, Butterfield or Hughes together. Possibly only to play a very defensive game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy1 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 What I'm saying is that Martin could not hold the ball today and a little bit on his own. With a 442 I think the play would be tighter and have more control. He needs someone closer to him. And play off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 47 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said: i think BJ gives us physicality in midfield, which is no bad thing. I've not seen anything so far to suggest he's worth £6million , but fact is since he and butters signed we've got a lot of points. So that doesn't seems to me the main problem. At the moment I'm more worried about our attack, which on paper shoud have done much better but just isn't firing on all cylinders. Lost two games since he came. Do for me all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 6 minutes ago, StringerBell said: I'd certainly say it's an issue of balance. We have players trying to do each other's jobs. I've said more than once I'd prefer Hendrick or Bryson in the team alongside Johnson, Hughes or Butterfield. It's not often I'd play two of Johnson, Butterfield or Hughes together. Possibly only to play a very defensive game. But Johnson plays a much more defensive role than Butterfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 24 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: But don't understand why people are saying it is balance? Do we really think PC would stick with a midfield that was unbalanced? The more obvious problem seems to be that the front 3 are not firing. That may be down to the level of service but if anything that is more to do with tactics than a lack of balance. I think that the wingers are a bit selfish if we're picking holes. When Derby are in possession I think Ince wants perfect situations and while the best of the 3, he has a tendency to make his own game easy if you know what I mean? Russell just wants to run and everything to be explosive and fast. He's direct but it's not always the way? And when it does work he often has his chin on his chest. Weimann... not a winger but I can't say he looks like a striker either. He takes up that inside forward position too much and you can't even get him in the game. I think the wingers need to do more in their role to bring others into play. I know I always banged on about Dawkins but they could do with borrowing some of his ball control and unselfishness. Dawkins enjoyed the build up so much that he never wanted it to end. He just doesn't have that killer instinct. But these lads are not helping Martin hold the ball up. They aren't showing enough for the ball and they just seem to have their own game going on. Occasionally they join in with the team. Then it looks great. Ince especially. But Warnock, Cyrus and Butterfield and Co are doing all 3 phases. Well, Warnock when the poor fella finds someone to work with. Out of possession they do graft tbf to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsall_Ram Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 What will be the plan when Hughesy is back fit, well and playing?!... GT can hold a DM role on his own. Wouldn't trust JB or JH playing wide and only BJ could play on the left. WH would be ahead of JB/JH any day of the week in my eyes. TI on the right, would he do a good enough job with only a full back to cover him? Would have to drop JR/AW for BJ in a 442 formation. CM form has dipped yes but teams know how we play before we've even started. He needs a man running beyond the defence. So for me it would be Carson/Grant Christie Keogh Shackell Warnock Thorne Ince Hughes Johnson Martin New Striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsall_Ram Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Reflecting on that.. The main issue of the other thread (missing ingredient).. Where is the pace in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy1 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Just now, Walsall_Ram said: What will be the plan when Hughesy is back fit, well and playing?!... GT can hold a DM role on his own. Wouldn't trust JB or JH playing wide and only BJ could play on the left. WH would be ahead of JB/JH any day of the week in my eyes. TI on the right, would he do a good enough job with only a full back to cover him? Would have to drop JR/AW for BJ in a 442 formation. CM form has dipped yes but teams know how we play before we've even started. He needs a man running beyond the defence. So for me it would be Carson/Grant Christie Keogh Shackell Warnock Thorne Ince Hughes Johnson Martin New Striker Spot on. A new striker. But what about trying Bent with MartinMartin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: But Johnson plays a much more defensive role than Butterfield? Butterfield tends to play like Hughes, like a number 8, receiving the ball in the centre of the pitch from any angle, switching play, picking out the odd slide rule pass when it's on. This is the position on the pitch Johnson should also be occupying, although he achieves his results slightly differently to Hughes or Butterfield. Butterfield is slightly more advanced - he has been carrying the ball into advanced positions on the edge of the box in the channels, which is new, but he doesn't do the running off the ball and break the midfield and defensive lines like Hendrick and Bryson do. Nowhere near as effectively anyway. His best works on the ball, Hendrick and Brysons best work is usually off the ball. This lack of runner is one of the reasons Martin looks so isolated sometimes. Its worth pointing out Hughes used to drive forward too, it just wasn't his natural game and he wasn't as good at it as Bryson. If you did an average position map of Hughes and Bryson in 13/14 I bet Bryson would be further forward. If you did an average position map of Butterfield and Johnson I bet Butterfield would be further forward. But if you compared the two midfields I also bet Butterfields position would be as close to Hughes' as it would be Bryson's The best midfield balance we've had recently was Eustace/Thorne, Hughes and Bryson. If Clement wants his midfield less gung ho then that's fine. But I don't think that suits Chris Martin in the slightest. I agree about the wide players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Yesterday dilemma with him was position where he had to play. He is about as much DM as Hendrick... When Bryson gets fit, I'd like to see BJ on the left so he could attack to Christie's crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogbad van 50 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 At Norwich he was used to players up front who could retain the ball and who had pace.There's not too much wrong with this team that a decent winger who can take on full backs and a centre forward with power and pace wouldn't put right.We're in a good position now and if we make a couple of good signings now I think we'll go up.I don't care if it's as runners up but anything except the play offs again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I just think our system relies on at least 2 players playing fantastically to properly click. I much prefer 4231 - no coincidence that boro play it and they're top at a canter. We've got quality players like them, I just think 433 relies too much on. 2 positions. To link this back to the original post, a 4231 allows Johnson and thorne to control the play (are they any worse than leadbitter/clayton?) the 3 behind the attacker allows for many more possibilities too with Martin being no more isolated than 433 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 5 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: I just think our system relies on at least 2 players playing fantastically to properly click. I much prefer 4231 - no coincidence that boro play it and they're top at a canter. We've got quality players like them, I just think 433 relies too much on. 2 positions. To link this back to the original post, a 4231 allows Johnson and thorne to control the play (are they any worse than leadbitter/clayton?) the 3 behind the attacker allows for many more possibilities too with Martin being no more isolated than 433 spot on. couldn't agree more. Think Johnson is wasted being DM with 15 goals last year i prefer him up further up the pitch. If thorne is injured put baird there or buy another DM or Loan Reece Oxford perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I think johnson is doing fine. we were a bit too polite in midfield before we signed him. He gets stuck in. He's a threat from set pieces. He's got a good shot on him. Whats not to like. compare our results before and after we signed Bradders and Butters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I honestly believe that after we beat Hartlepool,we get drawn away to Man City and win 6-0 someone on here would be picky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 9 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: I just think our system relies on at least 2 players playing fantastically to properly click. I much prefer 4231 - no coincidence that boro play it and they're top at a canter. We've got quality players like them, I just think 433 relies too much on. 2 positions. To link this back to the original post, a 4231 allows Johnson and thorne to control the play (are they any worse than leadbitter/clayton?) the 3 behind the attacker allows for many more possibilities too with Martin being no more isolated than 433 I also think you're spot on mate inasmuch as we have players who I believe individually are a match for Boro or any other team. Quite why we seem not to have expected to get anything at the riverside is a bit of a mystery to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Ovis aries said: I honestly believe that after we beat Hartlepool,we get drawn away to Man City and win 6-0 someone on here would be picky? Have you been in Cloud Cuckoo land today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 23 hours ago, TheDeadlySaul said: I wouldn't mind seeing BJ on the wing like he did with Norwich. Good idea this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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