Ashz09 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If I'm honest when Buxton played I always felt a mistake or a goal was going to be conceded. The same with Keogh. To be fair with Buxton when he was playing we was near the top but the same could be said for Omar and Martin and Eustace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Keogh, Bucko and Forsyth get the most stick and they were our best 3 defenders that's like saying Aids is better than Cancer (or vice versa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 that's like saying Aids is better than Cancer (or vice versa).Or you're better than Curtains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Oh for god's sake, that is absolute rubbish.I really wish people would stop saying this - it's not even true. Most of us will have seen him play in some capacity and will have formed an opinion on him that way, which, strangely enough, they're entitled to. I mean, do you actually think people sit there and consider his background and where he was brought up when deciding if they rate him or not? Honestly, that's bordering on bigotry.In fact, this type of comment judging people who judge Bucko is actually more prevalent than those orginally judging Bucko. It's become one of those bandwagons we often see on here that people seem to love jumping on, especially when it involves a moral high ground of some sort.And, for the record, I actually rate him. I'd be selling Shotton and Albentosa long before I'd want to sell Keogh or Buxton.For someone that's just wrote a paragraph on watching players and forming opinions, I'd have expected you're view there to be a little bit more objective...Albentosa has only played 8 games for us, in a foreign league with players he doesn't know and a language he barely speaks. To come into any club under those circumstances would be tough so the fact he put in some decent performances (in my view) shows that we can expect far more from him next season where I'd imagine he will be a first team regular.And yet you're calling for him to be sold?8 games is nothing, certainly not enough to form a fully fledged judgement of a player, especially when those 8 appearances came in a failing side devoid of any confidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Or you're better than CurtainsI've told you to stop flirting with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I've told you to stop flirting with me.sorry i missed off (or vice versa) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'd be selling Shotton and Albentosa long before I'd want to sell Keogh or Buxton.Fair comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernRam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I've got to pull you up on that. Bucko a liability? Yet Shotton and Christie make your grade? Hmm. I didn't mean to imply Bucko is a liability, I meant that some of are defenders are. The difference is in my opinion that under the right coaching the likes of Pearce, Keogh, Shotton and Christie could be very very solid. Bucko isn't cut out for the Prem and that's what we're aiming for, isn't it? At the end of the day, there is a reason why the 4 defenders I named have either played for or been linked with PL clubs and Bucko hasn't. I do like Jake though - he's got a Ram/Lionheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernRam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Give over. You think the fact he's come from Burton and not some continental side doesn't impact opinions on him?If Clement had come as assistant manager at Leicester would people be raving as much? He could be exactly the same coach but people will be influenced by their background.I'm sorry but to say I'm bordering on a bigot for suggesting that may be the case clearly lays you out as an absolute moron in my eyes.Well obviously not, because Leicester are nowhere near the side that Chelsea, Real Madrid and PSG are? It's all very well and good judging a player based on what you see - I agree - but there previous career will give you a fair indication. I agree that Buxton is a good defender at this level, but not the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 For someone that's just wrote a paragraph on watching players and forming opinions, I'd have expected you're view there to be a little bit more objective...Albentosa has only played 8 games for us, in a foreign league with players he doesn't know and a language he barely speaks. To come into any club under those circumstances would be tough so the fact he put in some decent performances (in my view) shows that we can expect far more from him next season where I'd imagine he will be a first team regular.And yet you're calling for him to be sold?8 games is nothing, certainly not enough to form a fully fledged judgement of a player, especially when those 8 appearances came in a failing side devoid of any confidence!Not calling for him to be sold. I'm just saying that, if I were forced to sell one of our CBs, I'd be considering Shotton and Albentosa before Keogh and Buxton. At no point did I say we SHOULD sell him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Give over. You think the fact he's come from Burton and not some continental side doesn't impact opinions on him?If Clement had come as assistant manager at Leicester would people be raving as much? He could be exactly the same coach but people will be influenced by their background.I'm sorry but to say I'm bordering on a bigot for suggesting that may be the case clearly lays you out as an absolute moron in my eyes.Yup, may as well lump me in with all of the other Derby fans you've just offended. To say they don't judge talent but rather where they come from and what type of person they are is, quite franky, an insult to their intelligence as football fans and decent people.I wasn't calling you a bigot either. My point was that you were accusing other fans of it.I have no doubt it would have impacted opinions when he first came here. But he's been here for many seasons now and I think people are over it. Some of our fans, I'm sure, may have even forgotten he came from Burton. Either way, we've seen enough of him now to form a fair opinion. In fact, if anything, I'd say it's worked more in his favour as the "cult hero" local guy.Your Clement example is terrible as well, as has already been pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Not calling for him to be sold. I'm just saying that, if I were forced to sell one of our CBs, I'd be considering Shotton and Albentosa before Keogh and Buxton. At no point did I say we SHOULD sell him though.I think Albentosa has a big part to play at this club. I also believe he is a better CB than Keogh.My CB's in order of importance: Albentosa, Buxton, Keogh, Shotton, Rawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yup, may as well lump me in with all of the other Derby fans you've just offended. To say they don't judge talent but rather where they come from and what type of person they are is, quite franky, an insult to their intelligence as football fans and decent people.I wasn't calling you a bigot either. My point was that you were accusing other fans of it.I have no doubt it would have impacted opinions when he first came here. But he's been here for many seasons now and I think people are over it. Some of our fans, I'm sure, may have even forgotten he came from Burton. Either way, we've seen enough of him now to form a fair opinion. In fact, if anything, I'd say it's worked more in his favour as the "cult hero" local guy.Your Clement example is terrible as well, as has already been pointed out.Are you seriously suggesting that you are offended by something that you've read on a messageboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I have no doubt it would have impacted opinions when he first came here. But he's been here for many seasons now and I think people are over it. Some of our fans, I'm sure, may have even forgotten he came from Burton. Either way, we've seen enough of him now to form a fair opinion. In fact, if anything, I'd say it's worked more in his favour as the "cult hero" local guy.I don't think I care much for agreeing with @Kernow generally (I'm a lone wolf... or bat... don;t need to agree with people... it's sick...) however I think you're missing the point...You're comparing Bucko NOW as he is having improved greatly over the years and having had loads of games to watch him in vs a guy we signed in Jan and has had a few games... You need to compare vs the excitement we had when we first signed (the man, the legend, the messiah) Bucko...We're ALWAYS going to think a player when they arrive is more exciting if they've come from a top league vs signing from a conference side... Especially a guy who was in a 'team of the month' with a load of very recognisable names... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think Albentosa has a big part to play at this club. I also believe he is a better CB than Keogh.My CB's in order of importance: Albentosa, Buxton, Keogh, Shotton, RawsonI agree, but if Pearce comes in and then we ship some money out to buy a slightly higher quality cb, then you would have to think one if not both of Buxton and Keogh would go. It wouldn't surprise me if Clement or any new manager that came in would look at the last two seasons and think, right our defence is probably one of the main causes for concern in terms of why we haven't achieved promotion. He may want to start a fresh and get rid of both of them, I'm sure some will agree with that idea and some won't. Personally I think maybe it is time to move both of them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think Albentosa has a big part to play at this club. I also believe he is a better CB than Keogh.My CB's in order of importance: Albentosa, Buxton, Keogh, Shotton, RawsonI hope you're right, but what did you see in the 8 games he played to suggest this will be the case?He's painfully slow and any attempt to pass more than 5 yards was a Spencer Prioresque hoof down the pitch or into the stands. He's 26 years old and in his entire career to date has played 58 games above the Spanish regional lower leagues.Outside of a season and a half with Eibar his pedigree is no better than the one Buxton arrived with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't think I care much for agreeing with @Kernow generally (I'm a lone wolf... or bat... don;t need to agree with people... it's sick...) however I think you're missing the point...You're comparing Bucko NOW as he is having improved greatly over the years and having had loads of games to watch him in vs a guy we signed in Jan and has had a few games... You need to compare vs the excitement we had when we first signed (the man, the legend, the messiah) Bucko...We're ALWAYS going to think a player when they arrive is more exciting if they've come from a top league vs signing from a conference side... Especially a guy who was in a 'team of the month' with a load of very recognisable names...Nope. Kernow's original comment was "People STILL view Buxton as a liability".I actually agree with your comment but disagree with Kernow's opinion that people still belittle Buxton because of where he's from. He's an established Championship defender - you'd be an idiot to deny him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Nope. Kernow's original comment was "People STILL view Buxton as a liability".I actually agree with your comment but disagree with Kernow's opinion that people still belittle Buxton because of where he's from. He's an established Championship defender - you'd be an idiot to deny him that.Yeh but you have to bear in mind that I had ZERO intention of reading the back and forth of the two of you bickering so just went with the most recent comments...And again (not sure why I'm doing this really) but there ARE people who still view The Buckosaur as a liability... There are those that think Keogh's inclusion in any kind of Team of the Year is madness (loads of those)... There are those that think Messi is 'a bit overrated' (not many of those)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I agree, but if Pearce comes in and then we ship some money out to buy a slightly higher quality cb, then you would have to think one if not both of Buxton and Keogh would go. It wouldn't surprise me if Clement or any new manager that came in would look at the last two seasons and think, right our defence is probably one of the main causes for concern in terms of why we haven't achieved promotion. He may want to start a fresh and get rid of both of them, I'm sure some will agree with that idea and some won't. Personally I think maybe it is time to move both of them on.I'd keep Buxton as back-up to Pearce, sell Keogh and promote Rawson to back-up for Albentosa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'd keep Buxton as back-up to Pearce, sell Keogh and promote Rawson to back-up for Albentosa?I'd have Bucko as back up to Bucko (clone) and partner him with Bucko (clone2) and have Bucko (clone3) as his backup...Original Buckminster is NOBODIES BACKUP BOY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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