The "Incredible Backing" myth

[sage]

​hahaha. Not quite Sage me owd. The message here is that those that think we should have romped the league because of what is perceived as "incredible backing" are unreasonable.

​He had enough backing to finish top 6.

He bought the loans in in incorrect positions and all 4 defensive permanent signings have been average or sh1te.

[ronnieronalde]

​hahaha. Not quite Sage me owd. The message here is that those that think we should have romped the league because of what is perceived as "incredible backing" are unreasonable.

​Nobodies talking about romping the league Mostyn.

I think though to finish top 6 and to consolidate last years position is an entirely reasonable expectation for the money spent.

I haven't checked but can you find me 6 clubs who spent more than 7m in the summer on permanent transfers and increased their wage bill by over 30%?

[ramblur]

​Clough total Net spend £6.5m

 

Maclaren Summer 2014 net spend £6.5m

 

 

 

​I remember working out that Clough net spend in response to one of our investors (possibly Mallett) bemoaning the fact that fans didn't realise what they'd spent.Most thought that Clough had spent a lot less (net) than I worked out from facts given in the accounts,probably because we appeared to receive a lot less on sales than the "believed to be" ethereals suggested.I'm also pretty sure this didn't include (though not absolutely certain) the 13/14 summer window. If it didn't (and this is from pure memory only), the 12/13 PBSE (for accounts signed off at the end of November 2013,therefore summer window only) gave sales at just under £1m,and purchases at not that far under £500k.

So it might have been only £6m for the full term.

[Mostyn6]

​Nobodies talking about romping the league Mostyn.

I think though to finish top 6 and to consolidate last years position is an entirely reasonable expectation for the money spent.

I haven't checked but can you find me 6 clubs who spent more than 7m in the summer on permanent transfers and increased their wage bill by over 30%?

​well clearly my argument isn't with you Ronnie. My argument is with those that suggest we were entitled to finish in the automatic promotion places based upon the 'incredible backing'. Your POV is rational and reasonable. I am not for one minute suggesting 8th is success, as per what I answered in your thread last night. 

I will say however your question is quite cute. There will be a few who spent more, but the 30% bit is a bit provocative as we may have had a higher or lower wage to start with (than other clubs) so the percentage is misleading. 

I once got a 28% payrise off Stuart Webb. Everyone else got 3%. My 28% equaled about £15 a week as an office junior! Everyone else's 3% equaled about £25 a week lol

[RLACML]

I've read in about 50 threads over the last few weeks that McClaren should've done better after the "incredible backing" he's apparently had, and the "amazing squad" which should've won the league.

This whole theory is wrong, so absolutely wrong. Whilst the quality of loans has improved under McClaren, I doubt very much the increase in investment has been that spectacular.

Permanent signings for the first team:-

Shotton - fringe player, bargain. Hardly someone you'd be jealous about if Forest signed him (Not really relevant though is it? It was still decent money)

Christie - young lad from the division below, again, hardly a ground breaking signing.

Thorne - fringe player, undoubted quality and hopefully will prove to be a good signing if he stays uninjured. Good backing. but as a signing, about on part with previous summer signings Keogh, Sammon, Shackell etc in terms of finance. (Finance that wasn't possible under Clough, for whatever reason. No way near a par with those guys)

Warnock - free transfer, to shore up the squad, perhaps not used enough, but hardly a wallet-busting transfer. (Most of this is just discussing rumours, but I'm sure he'll be on decent money)

Albentosa - pretty cheap. Bought in January with next season in mind. (Again, compared to the finance before, this isn't a cheap signing).

 

Loan signings.

Mascarell - young kid. Hardly a financial burden - I remember we paid a lot for Bueno's loan. Who knows how much Omar was.

Ibe - young kid on youth contract. Cheap as chips on youth wage. (Again, we don't know this. It's all rumours)

Ince - Already been on loan in this division, at a club that finished below Derby. Maybe a decent wage, maybe less than people think though. (Talk of a huge loan fee. Rumours)

Best - cover and small wage. Hardly incredible backing by sanctioning this. 

Bent - Already been at Brighton on loan, don't believe this loan was as expensive as people make out. Aston Villa had to get some of his wage off the bill. No way Derby are paying anything more than £20k of it (so I hear), but on balance, decent backing, but nothing groundbreaking for this division. (You get the idea)

===========================================================

As I say, there's nothing in that list that anyone can say is incredible in terms of financial backing. If anything, this highlights the fact we are still shopping in the bargain basement. Bournemouth were willing to pay £5m for Gray from Birmingham, which would probably have exceeded our whole transfer spend under McClaren.

I think the club tried to be cute in the transfer market and it backfired. McClaren COULD have had a great bargaining tool with the owners if the fans had reacted so hysterically to the Newcastle ******, but now he hasn't got that. I had hoped this coming summer be the one where they say "right, we need to spend £8m on the spine of the team".

It's inaccurate that we've spent massively and have the best squad.

​I've added a few comments in. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying but I think you're trying too hard. It's all just rumours, we can't possibly know the truth. I think we've given McClaren pretty hefty backing, but I also think that there's more to come next season.

[sage]

I've read in about 50 threads over the last few weeks that McClaren should've done better after the "incredible backing" he's apparently had, and the "amazing squad" which should've won the league.

This whole theory is wrong, so absolutely wrong. Whilst the quality of loans has improved under McClaren, I doubt very much the increase in investment has been that spectacular.

Permanent signings for the first team:-

Shotton - fringe player, bargain. Hardly someone you'd be jealous about if Forest signed him

Christie - young lad from the division below, again, hardly a ground breaking signing.

Thorne - fringe player, undoubted quality and hopefully will prove to be a good signing if he stays uninjured. Good backing. but as a signing, about on part with previous summer signings Keogh, Sammon, Shackell etc in terms of finance.

Warnock - free transfer, to shore up the squad, perhaps not used enough, but hardly a wallet-busting transfer.

Albentosa - pretty cheap. Bought in January with next season in mind.

 

Loan signings.

Mascarell - young kid. Hardly a financial burden

Ibe - young kid on youth contract. Cheap as chips on youth wage.

Ince - Already been on loan in this division, at a club that finished below Derby. Maybe a decent wage, maybe less than people think though.

Best - cover and small wage. Hardly incredible backing by sanctioning this.

Bent - Already been at Brighton on loan, don't believe this loan was as expensive as people make out. Aston Villa had to get some of his wage off the bill. No way Derby are paying anything more than £20k of it (so I hear), but on balance, decent backing, but nothing groundbreaking for this division.

===========================================================

As I say, there's nothing in that list that anyone can say is incredible in terms of financial backing. If anything, this highlights the fact we are still shopping in the bargain basement. Bournemouth were willing to pay £5m for Gray from Birmingham, which would probably have exceeded our whole transfer spend under McClaren.

I think the club tried to be cute in the transfer market and it backfired. McClaren COULD have had a great bargaining tool with the owners if the fans had reacted so hysterically to the Newcastle ******, but now he hasn't got that. I had hoped this coming summer be the one where they say "right, we need to spend £8m on the spine of the team".

It's inaccurate that we've spent massively and have the best squad.

​A lot of disingenuous stuff in there.

[Mostyn6]

​A lot of disingenuous stuff in there.

​I meant fringe player at their previous club, not here. Sorry, should've clarified.

[uttoxram75]

Its gonna be a long summer........

[i-Ram]

​Bigger than it was when I first started Uni #experiment

There are some things that you should not share with others. I would have my ****on that list.

[jagerbob]

Best was on a ridiculous wage. So where you get this information from I do not know. It wasnt just that he was crap tyhat blackburn wwanted him out. it was that his wage was from a premier league era.

[ariotofmyown]

​Clough total Net spend £6.5m

 

Maclaren Summer 2014 net spend £6.5m

 

 

 

And that's before wages

[ariotofmyown]

Its gonna be a long summer........

Said that out loud to myself about 3 seconds before reading your post. Stick to politics and stopped nicking my ideas!

[Guest]

​no, I don't. If people are willing to suggest that the previous years have involved poor backing, then those people can be honest enough to suggest the we have only jumped to average backing. 

I bet a lot of teams in this league have spent more.

I stand by the fact that (aside of Albentosa) we didn't sign a single player that the selling club wanted to keep, we have been cute and tried to get by with buying fringe/reserve players, and similarly, loaning players that aren't near the team either.

Incredible backing would've meant buying players that made us ALL say "wow". 

We need to realise we lose £7m a year and last season increased our spending considerably....incredibly so...as I never expected it to increase to £6.7m   

he has been backed very well. We will always struggle financially against ex prem teams.

by all accounts we bid £5m for McCormack last summer......

spending on wages was and is the biggest commitment we have made ..... And we have not got the best out of those player deals. Normally you are buying something more tangible, as you know the player...no settling in required. 

[Guest]

​Nobodies talking about romping the league Mostyn.

I think though to finish top 6 and to consolidate last years position is an entirely reasonable expectation for the money spent.

I haven't checked but can you find me 6 clubs who spent more than 7m in the summer on permanent transfers and increased their wage bill by over 30%?

I haven't got the accounts to hand so can only guess at the answer but....

red dogs, norwich, Cardiff, Boro, Bournemouth, Brentford.

You ask for 7 but I think it's a trick question and have removed wolves because they were new to the league this season, so that leaves 6 ?

i expect a full blown breakdown for the accounts of that club for anyone who wished to prove me wrong. All my inside info comes from the tea lady at companies house.

 

 

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

so £7m on cheap as chip young players and fringe palyers is being cute? I call it wasteful when those players arent really any better than those we already had.

​With a lot of money allegedly available  having wealthy members of the board "on board"

Would it not have been possible to borrow a substantial amount of money from said wealthy members as a business loan in order to get promotion .

Then with promotion and prize money pay the money back.

Is this feasible or am I being naive by thinking that running a football club should be like running a business

"money comes in and money goes out ,as long as more money comes in than goes out your business is fine"