Defensive midfield

[needles]

We've lost 9 games this season (league and cup), Mascarell has started 7 and came on as a sub in another. 8 out of 28 appearances we've lost, versus one out of 14 when he hasn't played. Read what you want into it. I think he makes us liable to get overrun by being out of position and that he loses the ball in dangerous areas. I said enough was enough after forest, but he came back with two or three good games. He seemed to have had a kick up the arse, but since GT has been back in training, I think he's felt the pressure and been flaky again. We don't have time to nurse him into form/confidence with a dozen games to play so for me I'd take him out of the team. I'd sooner play Keogh/Shotton/Warnock as a purely destructive shield in front of the back four than play Mascarell again. I'm not a hater, I don't boo or rant at players, it's just my judgement that he's not up to it and I think the stats bear that out.

[Ambitious]

I watched the Fulham game and a few things stood out for me.

Mascarell has made nearly double the amount of touches as Hendrick. 
Mascarell has created twice as many chances as Hendrick.
Mascarell has made more succesful dribbles than Hendrick.
Hendrick has been dispossessed four times and gave the ball away once due to a poor touch. Mascarell did neither.
Mascarell made five tackles, Hendrick one. Mascarell made six interceptions, Hendrick none. Mascarell has made four clearances... Hendrick.. NONE. 
Mascarell also won more aerial duals over any player on the pitch. 

The only thing I can't understand, after watching the whole game and looking at the analysis, is why some people hell bent on attacking the only centre midfielder looking to get on the ball and break stuff up and move the ball forward. 

I understand from hearing Mascarell get booed in the last home game that he's a marked man and people know will obviously blame him for the results despite how well/or unwell he plays. However, it will still grate on me when there is no solid or good reason for him to do so. 

[DerbyRam!]

I watched the Fulham game and a few things stood out for me.

Mascarell has made nearly double the amount of touches as Hendrick. 
Mascarell has created twice as many chances as Hendrick.
Mascarell has made more succesful dribbles than Hendrick.
Hendrick has been dispossessed four times and gave the ball away once due to a poor touch. Mascarell did neither.
Mascarell made five tackles, Hendrick one. Mascarell made six interceptions, Hendrick none. Mascarell has made four clearances... Hendrick.. NONE. 
Mascarell also won more aerial duals over any player on the pitch. 

The only thing I can't understand, after watching the whole game and looking at the analysis, is why some people hell bent on attacking the only centre midfielder looking to get on the ball and break stuff up and move the ball forward. 

I understand from hearing Mascarell get booed in the last home game that he's a marked man and people know will obviously blame him for the results despite how well/or unwell he plays. However, it will still grate on me when there is no solid or good reason for him to do so. 

[Ashz09]

After watching it on stream I wanted to turn it off at half time! You just know we're gonna land in play offs it's annoying!

[North_Stand_Ram]

It's hard to compare Jeff's and Omar's stats as they play in different positions

[RodleyRam]

I watched the Fulham game and a few things stood out for me.

Mascarell has made nearly double the amount of touches as Hendrick. 
Mascarell has created twice as many chances as Hendrick.
Mascarell has made more succesful dribbles than Hendrick.
Hendrick has been dispossessed four times and gave the ball away once due to a poor touch. Mascarell did neither.
Mascarell made five tackles, Hendrick one. Mascarell made six interceptions, Hendrick none. Mascarell has made four clearances... Hendrick.. NONE. 
Mascarell also won more aerial duals over any player on the pitch. 

The only thing I can't understand, after watching the whole game and looking at the analysis, is why some people hell bent on attacking the only centre midfielder looking to get on the ball and break stuff up and move the ball forward. 

I understand from hearing Mascarell get booed in the last home game that he's a marked man and people know will obviously blame him for the results despite how well/or unwell he plays. However, it will still grate on me when there is no solid or good reason for him to do so. 

[Ambitious]

​

Where you watching the same game as the ref or something?

 

Go and look back again at the two goals we conceded, first, mascarell jumps to try and block the ball instead of staying on his feet, this allows their player to cut round him and take his time on a leisurely stroll in the box. he doesnt directly cost us this goal but he certainly played a big part in it.

even for the second goal, while it was hughes who got caught with the ball, mascarell is completely out of position in no mans land, this allows parker to pick up the ball and have a free 20 yard stroll directly down the middle(keogh should of gone to him, but it was about 3vs2 in their favour! think he panicked and rightly so!)

 

edit: and im pretty sure he was dispossessed at least twice.

[Tombo]

You're right, no player plays badly on purpose but some players like Mascarell have consistently shown that they are not good enough for the role they are supposed to play. Before the game I was brimming with confidence until I heard that Thorne was out - I had no faith in Mascarell to step up to the plate and I wasn't disappointed. He was garbage as was Christie - the rest weren't far behind either - but I'm fed up of Omar not doing the right things and I don't get the blind faith SM has in him. I don't expect us to just turn up and win, but to have competed against a very average Fulham side would have been nice. 

 

 

[Ovis aries]

 

The meltdown every time we lose when the pressure is on  is ridiculous

[RamNut]

The problem wasn't mascarell.

he made a few errors but so did everyone.

[May Contain Nuts]

Ambitious ' post just goes to show how misleading some statistics can be. They also tell you nothing about the balance of the team.  Another post is quite telling, making forward / supporting runs that take you out of position to do your main duty are not a positive!  If nobody else offered Hughes an option then that's down to other players, not Mascarell - there will have been good intentions but at best it was irresponsible,  do your own job first and foremost. That's a perfect example of what separates Mascarell from Eustace and Thorne. 

There wouldn't be such a strong reaction to every defeat if every defeat wasn't coupled with such hopeless performances. You can accept losing an even match, against an opposition team who've created good chances and stuck them away, but it's much harder to accept when you've barely managed to threaten yourself and have practically handed the opposition their goals on a plate.  

[bcnram]

​So what about the fact that he has featured in most of the games we have lost ? coincidence ?

[bcnram]

Ambitious ' post just goes to show how misleading some statistics can be. They also tell you nothing about the balance of the team.  Another post is quite telling, making forward / supporting runs that take you out of position to do your main duty are not a positive!  If nobody else offered Hughes an option then that's down to other players, not Mascarell - there will have been good intentions but at best it was irresponsible,  do your own job first and foremost. That's a perfect example of what separates Mascarell from Eustace and Thorne. 

There wouldn't be such a strong reaction to every defeat if every defeat wasn't coupled with such hopeless performances. You can accept losing an even match, against an opposition team who've created good chances and stuck them away, but it's much harder to accept when you've barely managed to threaten yourself and have practically handed the opposition their goals on a plate.  

[Dimmu]

Mac said it was full backs game (due their diamond shape) and they failed to deliver. Not sure where I read/heard it.

So supporting runs were demanded, that's for sure.

[May Contain Nuts]

​Which of the stats do you consider to be misleading? Without knowing what the instructions were from McClaren it is difficult to criticise his supporting runs. He is a very mobile player and I suspect that this is being utilized as part of the game plan. If his instruction was to just sit anchored in front of the back four, then I am sure that he would have been dragged back. The fact is that Derby were out-worked by a team with some very good players, and given little time to do what they tend to do well. Maybe the manager and his support team should be taking some of the wrap for that. 

[bcnram]

Prettty much all of them - they are not context sensitive and in some cases unquantifiable. What counts as a chance created? Mascarell takes free kicks and corners so those might get recorded as a 'chance created' even if there was no actual threat. You could 'intercept' 5 terrible, misplaced passes but still receive the credit. There's too much of a grey area for them to be relied upon completely.

I didn't mean that a DM should NEVER get upfield or make a supporting run, but it's a bit like teaching a child when it's safe to cross a busy road without traffic lights, a judgement of when to stay and when to go - something Eustace/Thorne consistently get right, something that isn't truly covered by any statistic.

 

 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

​I am not sure that anyone is saying that stats should be relied on completely, but they cannot be disregarded completely either because they do not suit your points. 

There is no doubt that Thorne is a better player, he is a massive presence and if he stays clear of injuries for a while he will be excellent for us. Eustace doesn't have the legs to venture upfield too often anyway. Thorne & Mascarell play with a different style, it is up to the manager to allow for that in his tactical planning.

[peakram]

​Which of the stats do you consider to be misleading? Without knowing what the instructions were from McClaren it is difficult to criticise his supporting runs. He is a very mobile player and I suspect that this is being utilized as part of the game plan. If his instruction was to just sit anchored in front of the back four, then I am sure that he would have been dragged back. The fact is that Derby were out-worked by a team with some very good players, and given little time to do what they tend to do well. Maybe the manager and his support team should be taking some of the wrap for that.

[bcnram]

​I think that's a big problem, you don't really want the CDM to be running very far from a certain area, Seth Johnson was a similar culprit, it might look good on the eye but Carsley who always held his position was much the more effective of those two players. Even the second goal where Hughes lost the ball from Mascarell's pass, rendered them both out of position for the second goal. That after Masc had turned his back on the play for the first goal and almost gifted them an earlier opener with a stray pass that thankfully they fluffed, something he wasn't so lucky with at Rotherham. Don't think he's in any kind of form to start the next game, was also completely out of sorts when he came on as sub in the last home game. No withhunt, just stating facts which others can't seem to see. OK he may have had x and y touches but it doesn't change the argument he was found wanting.

[AndyB]

The thing I always felt about Mascarell is that he can't cut it in away games. So I had a look at the stats.

At home, results with starting defensive midfielder

Mascarell 7 5 1 1 20-7 16

Eustace 7 3 3 1 13-6 12

 

Away games, results with starting defensive midfielder

Eustace 6 5 1 0 14-3 16

Mascarell 9 3 2 4 11-14 11

 

What strikes me is Mascarell's difficulties away but also our strength away when Eustace starts. Mascarell's results are much stronger at home when we spend more time going forward and less time defending. I would rather have Eustace than Mascarell at home and away during the run in and obviously Thorne ahead of both.

In the meantime if neither Thorne nor Eustace are fit for away games for the rest of the season I would put Warnock in at defensive midfield. We can't afford a poor away return in our final 6 away games of this season.