Shuff264 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Like Bournemouth you mean? Oh wait.You dont NEED a holding midfielder.I agree I'd rather us play 4-3-3 of some sorts, with someone holding. But to say you cant do it without that player is wrong. It ******* helps, if they play 4-4-2 in the prem they will be torn apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It ******* helps, if they play 4-4-2 in the prem they will be torn apartMaybe, but it clearly works at this level if done properly and that's all what matters to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Maybe, but it clearly works at this level if done properly and that's all what matters to us. Fair enough, I was being a bit dramatic and over the top but it's just so useful to have that player screening the back four, we couldn't play with a poor dm in there no chance with no player in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 As of now we don't know what the system or what personnel we are going to play. So who knows. So this negates the whole "he doesn't fit into our system " when we didn't have one for ages and don't know what will happen next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craic dispenser Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 How do you propose playing to suit his needs?balls into space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Balls deep in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 balls into spaceIf Miliband promises that, he'll get my vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 4-4-2 can work. Easily.Just watch how Atletico Madrid play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxram Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 For me the only issue with going for Bent would obviously be the wages he is reportedly on, FFP, rocking the boat,ect. Personally think he is great player to have on the books and I'm surprised we are even in the situation where we (seemingly) have a chance. £24M Villa paid four years ago, Ex-England international striker, scoring in half his 8 international appearances since 2010. Rooney managed just 3 in 16 during that time and is only about 18 months younger.Considering the cost of decent strikers at this level, getting Bent on a free transfer... Surely you couldn't even argue he is too old based on his return this season.Jordan Rhodes - 21 Goals - 3513Mins - 167.3Mins/pg - £8M+WageCallum Wilson - 20 Goals - 3908Mins - 195.4Mins/pg - £3M+WageCameron Jerome - 18 Goals - 2926Mins - 162.5Mins/pg - £1.5M+WageRoss McCormack - 17 Goals - 3849Mins - 226.4Mins/pg - £11M+WageDarren Bent - 10 Goals - 1075Mins - 107.5Mins/pg - £0+£3.6M pa(Current reported wage - £70,000*52=£3.6M)(Top scorers on loan not counted)Even without cutting his wages down, he isn't exactly looking that expensive against the leagues top scorers.I'd assume the wages for these strikers are over the reported £500,000 average for the championship, and even if Bent is given the Premier League average of £43,717 per week.(£2.3M pa)That is the same cost as signing him for the £10,000pw average Championship wage and a £1.8M fee...(1 year contract)At a standard 3 year contract length; a player earning a £25K wage would cost a fee of £4M for an equal total expenditure.I'd assume with him being 31, any proposed contract wouldn't be that long. Making the deal arguably better value. The money can also be performance/appearance based giving us a bit of insurance against injury or form that you wouldn't get with a transfer fee.This obviously depends on him wanting to come back and being willing to take such a cut but I just thought I'd have a look at the difference getting him on a free makes to the high wage situation. (also assuming it all comes from the same pot)This would also obviously be the same for any rival club better equipped to meet his wages but I'd never have expected to sign him at the start of the season so the only way I'd be dissapointed is to see him go to a rival championship club.For reference:Tom Ince - 11 Goals - 1604Mins - 145.8Mins/pg - £2.3M+Wage...and yes I do have better things to be doing, but I started so I finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbonfunk Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 "because thats the way its always been done" is never an excuse. 2-2-6 used to be the most popular formation back in the day, lets go back to that.The reason we need a defensive midfielder is because football has changed. Its no long about the quick wingers whipping balls in, its about the tricky attacking midfielder in the centre and playing the ball through the middle. You need a player to mop up in front of the defence and screen for them. You cannot play with the flat lines of a 4-4-2 any more, football is about dynamic players that switch position and drag players away, you need a team that can dynamically change to match this with players in between the lines to break up play or start play off. This is why you play with a three in midfield or a two lines of three and two so that the forward players can press from the front and try force them into a mistake, giving the ball away in there own half never even letting them get close to our defence however with a player or two behind them to mop up just in case anything goes wrong. This is modern football not the 1980s, football isnt about having a 7 foot bloke at centre back who can break a leg, or a player who's got a turn of pace and a cross or a big man up front to head the ball. Football has changed and the best teams have dictated that change or changed with it quickly with the rest being left behind. Well that turned into quite a rant....So much so that I went offline for a day to recover. Some interesting points in there and I'd agree the team needs to be more fluid/dynamic. Doesn't change my opinion that we need to move away from the complete reliance we've had on one central defensive midfielder. As an aside, expressing an opinion that a general 4-4-2 line up has been the most successful in history and could easily serve a team well in the Championship is not the same as saying "because that's the way it's always been done" or advocating lumping it up to a big centre forward. I said neither of those things.Great debate though and I enjoyed reading the 'rant'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbonfunk Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The concept behind the "holding midfielder" isn't just "to babysit the defence", it's to act as a pivot between defence and attack, and damn near vital in possession based systems. There's a reason that Barcelona have Busquets, there's a reason Bayern brought in Xabi Alonso. I know all that. However, putting Eustace in front of Bucko and crazylegs Keogh is almost solely to break up play and protect the ropey central defence. I think that's why Steve persisted so long with Mascarell, he was hoping he could grow into the 'enforcer' side of the role as he could already move the ball about nicely. He didn't. but it would have mattered less if the central defenders were better, iyswim.Fwiw I think we'll see another central midfielder playing next to (a hopefully fit) Thorne in a 4-2-3-1. Which, if Martin ends up in the middle of the 3, is almost a 4-4-2 anyway ;-) Ultimately if we get good enough players in we'll do alright. Stating the obvious, but that's the problem in the 2nd tier, all the players will inevitably have some kind of weakness in their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramchope Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Darren Bent is on The Fantasy Football show on sky this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmerman Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sign him. Close thread. Drink beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 If they pay him more than Martin it will cause trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Anyone watching fantasy football on sky sports one? Bent on there now talking about Derbys demise and his future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Derby are firmly in his thoughts hes just said. But obviously he'd love to be in the premier league but derby in the championship is a good option for him. So half and half chance of landing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 "derby in the championship would be a good move for me""abroad is an option""dont expect to play for villa again, but would be nice""havnt spoken to villa manager at all, on a free at the end of the season"we have first dibs if he's dropping down, said it would be below his level but he'd be happy to if he was getting constant footballjust watching him talk on fantasy football league thing on sky sports.looks good for us to sign him tbh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 !QUOTE!Posted 1 minute ago (edited) · Report postDerby are firmly in his thoughts hes just said. But obviously he'd love to be in the premier league but derby in the championship is a good option for him. So half and half chance of landing himEdited just now by Ramos"Lmao im too slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irobinson Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 just saw him on Fantasy Jobbie with Mers......came across well....reckon he would play for us....likes the club etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 @derbyram yours was more like a transcript and more accurate so don't you ever put yourself down like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.