The demise of Forest

[rynny]

I believe kev and elvis are one and the same. LOL! FACT!

[StaffsRam]

1) We suffered the same wobble after we did not strengthen in January 2010 and completely ran out of steam. Who knows what may have happened if Davies had stuck with the team at Derby. One of the January signings scored the winner in the play-off final as well.

Indeed - seems it doesn't really matter what Davros does he's doomed to bottle it. Strengthen, don't strengthen, he'll find a way...

Pearo - I think that was his first shot on goal since joining in January.

 

2) McClaren did not make the most of what he had. Believe me our performances were just awful under him, the 2-1 defeat to you when we had a goal and man advantage was pretty indicative of his time here. The two league games he won were two of the worst kind of 1-0 wins possible. We ended up going 4-0 down to Burnley within 35 minutes who were languishing in the bottom half of the table. It was just awful in every respect and it was not Davies' fault. That team should have been mid-table at least but was not good enough to push for promotion.

 

Ishmael Miller for 1.2m and on 18k a week is laughable.

Yet our performances under him have been some of the best at least since George Burley, and arguably since TBE. McClaren is getting out of them what Nigel couldn't.

McClaren for you I suppose wasn't really managing with what he had, considering he spent a load of cash bringing in new players. Perhaps he'd have been better off not bothering and trying to work with what he had. Problem then though is that he'd have had Davros' team to try and get playing something approaching decent football.

The transfer fees and wages, was that really McClaren? I can see him being the one saying I want x player but I'd have thought that he'd leave the contract details to your money men?

 

3) Your squad now is far more talented on the whole than ours was in 2011. I have never seen you play under him so cannot comment on what he has done. It will be interesting to see what happens when he has a full pre-season with them and makes some additions of his own. Maybe be will take Ishamel Miller who is out of contract with us!

He won't make the same mistakes he did with you. He won't be allowed to for one thing. Plus he's going to be inheriting the next wave from the academy soon. Wouldn't surprise me if Max Lowe starts getting a look in next season. Mr Wassall keeps mining gold with the academy.

 

4) I don't know how much Doughty put in. It was understandable why he got fed up of it as it did not bring the club success and ultimately was wasted. He got his fingers burnt severely on more than occasion, most notably with Platt spending £12m and not finishing higher than 11th. No-one knows what has happened to the debt to the Doughty family and it is not really anyone's concern. As I said a great investor who had the club's best wishes dear to his heart but an awful decision maker and chairman.

Fine margins. Lionel Pickering isn't a million miles away from that description. Backed a few Managers with countless millions before we eventually hit lucky with TBE. Poor old Lionel ended up over committing himself and w pretty much broke by the end. Despite his faults, and the bust that followed his boom time, I think most Derby fans still love him for it.

 

We will see what happens with Fawaz but I don't see us spending heavily again in the summer and why should we all the time? The club would have gone into administration had someone not bought it so I am very grateful for that.

I doubt next season will be any easier for you tbh - I don't see QPR getting back into the top two now, and I'd be surprised if they went up through the playoffs. So they'll likely. Be having another go next year. If Wigan don't go up this time then I'd fancy them again next year. That's before you even get into the three that end up coming down. This year's your last serious effort at automatic IMO. Next season onwards I'd say you'll be aiming for the playoffs.

[StaffsRam]

Was he liked during the promotion season? Did your fans sing his name when you were promoted? Would you dislike him so much if he did not manage Forest? All genuine questions.

I'd say he was tolerated more than liked. Especially after the Wembley win. He played that all wrong, by making the day about him and his contract situation rather than celebrating the club's success. That was the beginning of the end for some.

Would I dislike him if he weren't at Forest? Put it this way, if he managed someone else, let's say Barnsley, who I have nothing against - if you were playing them then I'd want you to win. Forest has always been banter, to me at least. Billy Davies, I despise, even more so than Colin VVanker and maybe even Don Revie.

[Cam the Ram]

Carl Froch ‏@Carl_Froch  31m

Just got off the phone with @EddieHearn & the waiting is nearly over. City Ground is now the front runner. @Official_NFFC let's do this.

 

 

George Groves ‏@StGeorgeGroves  7m

Before you all book your trains to Nottingham because the Sheriff has tweeted.. I very much doubt King John would send us all there! #Hoax

[Knowle Rohrer]

Indeed - seems it doesn't really matter what Davros does he's doomed to bottle it. Strengthen, don't strengthen, he'll find a way...

Pearo - I think that was his first shot on goal since joining in January.

 

Yet our performances under him have been some of the best at least since George Burley, and arguably since TBE. McClaren is getting out of them what Nigel couldn't.

McClaren for you I suppose wasn't really managing with what he had, considering he spent a load of cash bringing in new players. Perhaps he'd have been better off not bothering and trying to work with what he had. Problem then though is that he'd have had Davros' team to try and get playing something approaching decent football.

The transfer fees and wages, was that really McClaren? I can see him being the one saying I want x player but I'd have thought that he'd leave the contract details to your money men?

 

He won't make the same mistakes he did with you. He won't be allowed to for one thing. Plus he's going to be inheriting the next wave from the academy soon. Wouldn't surprise me if Max Lowe starts getting a look in next season. Mr Wassall keeps mining gold with the academy.

 

Fine margins. Lionel Pickering isn't a million miles away from that description. Backed a few Managers with countless millions before we eventually hit lucky with TBE. Poor old Lionel ended up over committing himself and w pretty much broke by the end. Despite his faults, and the bust that followed his boom time, I think most Derby fans still love him for it.

 

I doubt next season will be any easier for you tbh - I don't see QPR getting back into the top two now, and I'd be surprised if they went up through the playoffs. So they'll likely. Be having another go next year. If Wigan don't go up this time then I'd fancy them again next year. That's before you even get into the three that end up coming down. This year's your last serious effort at automatic IMO. Next season onwards I'd say you'll be aiming for the playoffs.

 

1) Bottle it is harsh, in my opinion. His first season with Preston he did very well to get them to the play-off final and lost to a strong West Ham team who had underperformed under Pardew. He did bottle it against Leeds the next year. Preston drew at Elland Road and he claimed it was "job done" and they blew it big time at Deepdale.

 

I don't think it was his fault a solid team just collapsed against Blackpool at home. Swansea were a better side than us a year later as well even though we wasted a golden opportunity by playing against 10 men for 89 minutes and not scoring. We hit the woodwork three times in the second leg after going 2-0 down as well.

 

I think he bottled it big time last season, having taken us from 14th to 5th, we won only one out of eight games in what was not a particularly difficult run in with plenty of games we should have been able to win.

 

2) We had 9 players leave that summer who were out of contract so we needed reinforcements. He expected big money like Davies has had and it just was not there. I don't think he was interested in building the club slowly with youth and younger signings who needed to be developed which is a shame as he could have been a brilliant manager for us.

 

3) I wouldn't have thought he would make the same mistakes again but recruiting probably is not a strength for him as a manager either.

 

Do you think that the next wave of youngsters will eventually make it to the Premier League? If you do get promoted will they get a chance?

 

4) Good comparison with Pickering. Maybe Doughty even saw that he made himself broke over it and decided to get out.

 

I also agree it will be tougher next year. Fulham, Cardiff, Sunderland, West Brom and Palace would all fancy themselves to push for promotion. However, it is not worth thinking about it yet as we could win the play-offs and it is often hard to predict how a team will fare in this league.

[Knowle Rohrer]

I'd say he was tolerated more than liked. Especially after the Wembley win. He played that all wrong, by making the day about him and his contract situation rather than celebrating the club's success. That was the beginning of the end for some.

Would I dislike him if he weren't at Forest? Put it this way, if he managed someone else, let's say Barnsley, who I have nothing against - if you were playing them then I'd want you to win. Forest has always been banter, to me at least. Billy Davies, I despise, even more so than Colin VVanker and maybe even Don Revie.

 

Fair enough. No-one can deny he made an absolute hash of attempting to manage in the Premier League. Blackpool and Burnley spent a fraction of what he spent and made good attempts at staying up and at least were relegated with their heads held high.

 

I do not despise Derby particularly, I enjoy the rivalry the games against you. Leicester I have no time for and they will not accept there is no rivalry between them and us!

[StaffsRam]

1) Bottle it is harsh, in my opinion. His first season with Preston he did very well to get them to the play-off final and lost to a strong West Ham team who had underperformed under Pardew. He did bottle it against Leeds the next year. Preston drew at Elland Road and he claimed it was "job done" and they blew it big time at Deepdale. I don't think it was his fault a solid team just collapsed against Blackpool at home. Swansea were a better side than us a year later as well even though we wasted a golden opportunity by playing against 10 men for 89 minutes and not scoring. We hit the woodwork three times in the second leg after going 2-0 down as well. I think he bottled it big time last season, having taken us from 14th to 5th, we won only one out of eight games in what was not a particularly difficult run in with plenty of games we should have been able to win.

Bottling it might not be the right phrase. That assumes that he has what it takes in the first place, which I'm not convinced that he does. Mentally not strong enough, especially if his plan A doesn't work.

2) We had 9 players leave that summer who were out of contract so we needed reinforcements. He expected big money like Davies has had and it just was not there. I don't think he was interested in building the club slowly with youth and younger signings who needed to be developed which is a shame as he could have been a brilliant manager for us.

A shame for you. As he's proving with us, he's more than capable of working with a young team and getting the best out of them.

3) I wouldn't have thought he would make the same mistakes again but recruiting probably is not a strength for him as a manager either. Do you think that the next wave of youngsters will eventually make it to the Premier League? If you do get promoted will they get a chance?

Some of them certainly would. Lowe definitely. Others would likely take longer having to wait for opportunities. Lowe though could be another in the Will Hughes bracket.

4) Good comparison with Pickering. Maybe Doughty even saw that he made himself broke over it and decided to get out. I also agree it will be tougher next year. Fulham, Cardiff, Sunderland, West Brom and Palace would all fancy themselves to push for promotion. However, it is not worth thinking about it yet as we could win the play-offs and it is often hard to predict how a team will fare in this league.

Sunderland always fooking yo-yo if they come down. Very epitome of a club not being good enough for the top flight, but probably too good for the second tier.

[needles]

Forget the football history, Billy Davies is blatantly obviously a colossal *****. He's also a competent manager at Championship level with strengths and weaknesses we could all identify quite readily. It's a sad indictment of us as fans that us Derby lot tolerated him while he was winning, and its an equally sad indictment that Forest fans tolerate him now. I don't believe he'll ever make more than what he is now, a decent if extremely controversial Championship boss.

[Knowle Rohrer]

Bottling it might not be the right phrase. That assumes that he has what it takes in the first place, which I'm not convinced that he does. Mentally not strong enough, especially if his plan A doesn't work.

A shame for you. As he's proving with us, he's more than capable of working with a young team and getting the best out of them.

Some of them certainly would. Lowe definitely. Others would likely take longer having to wait for opportunities. Lowe though could be another in the Will Hughes bracket.

Sunderland always fooking yo-yo if they come down. Very epitome of a club not being good enough for the top flight, but probably too good for the second tier.

 

1) Perhaps you're right. Assuming we do make the play-offs this season it means that every full season he has managed at this level as well keeping a poor Forest side up in his half season with us. He is good enough to take teams so far but cannot get them over the line.

 

A bit like Sven Goran Eriksson who was good enough to take England to quarter finals but no more than that.

 

2) He has a real feeling for Derby and feels very much at home there. After the disaster at Forest and not being successful at Twente in his second spell, he has had to change his expectations. When he took over at Forest he really wanted to back in the Premier League quickly instead of building slowly.

 

3) Its a sad indication of English football that clubs do not feel that they can blood young talent in the Premier League like they used to.

 

4) Agreed about Sunderland even though they have done well to stay up since 2007. West Brom are similar in stature to Forest, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday etc. but are so well run to stay up and always bounce back quickly when they have come down. Fulham could go either way when they come down, Solskjaer looks to be out of his depth as well so Cardiff could struggle and you would expect Pulis to get a team challenging at this level.

[Grimbeard]

1. Was he liked during the promotion season?

 

2. Did your fans sing his name when you were promoted?

 

3. Would you dislike him so much if he did not manage Forest?

 

All genuine questions.

 

1. Never exactly 'liked' by many.

2. Some did, many didn't.

3. Absolutely, thought he was a git when he was here,  think he's (an insane, self-obsessed) git now.

[TigerTedd]

At the end of the day, Forest wasn't the right time or place for McLaren. Different managers suit different situations, and sometimes you need a perfect storm to bring about exactly the right situation.

For a variety of reasons, trying to rebuild a billy Davies team, having unrealistic expectations, it was a total clusterfuck at Forest.

But that perfect storm has hit for Derby. It's the right time, and he's in the right place.

[eddie]

At the end of the day, Forest wasn't the right time or place for McLaren. Different managers suit different situations, and sometimes you need a perfect storm to bring about exactly the right situation.

For a variety of reasons, trying to rebuild a billy Davies team, having unrealistic expectations, it was a total clusterfuck at Forest.

But that perfect storm has hit for Derby. It's the right time, and he's in the right place.

 

"There's a time, and the time is now and it's right for me….."

 

Bugger, now I've got to listen to bloody Yes.

[Srg]

The debate about Davies rumbles on. 

 

I think the clear problem with him - both whilst with us and after - is that it's all about him. He deflects attention from the team onto himself and fancies himself as a poor-mans Mourinho in doing it. It works fantastically at creating a siege mentality but that is literally all he has. No real discernable tactics and one motivational tactic.

 

When the team/squad he has are clear favourites, with quality players instead of his grafting underdogs, they struggle. That's where the ridiculous, frankly laughable, excuses start.

[tomsdubs]

Was he liked during the promotion season? Did your fans sing his name when you were promoted?

 

Would you dislike him so much if he did not manage Forest?

 

All genuine questions.

 

Couldn't ******* stand him and the football was *****.

[MuespachRam]

Was he liked during the promotion season? Did your fans sing his name when you were promoted?

 

Would you dislike him so much if he did not manage Forest?

 

All genuine questions.

Don't let anyone kid you, we won promotion, we were the third best team in the league, we went to Wembley and won the biggest cash prize in world football....he was loved when he was here.

 

I was with the thousands on the pitch singing his name after the Southampton semi final and after the open top bus parade after he had said everything he did about Preston.

 

For sure that Is the reason why so many people dislike him, if he was managing Wigan no one would give a toss about him and his ways.

 

I still have a lot of time for his methods, I love the "siege mentality" he creates, just like someone said Jose does this so well at all the clubs he is at, takes all the attention off the players on to himself, leaving them to play.

He is arrogant, self centred, opinionated and sometimes a horrible little twirp, but there have been numerous managers throughout history who have all been these things, but have had that something extra that makes them likeable.... Brian was, Jose is....Billy will never be there....which is great for us.

 

We should have kept him at our place throughout the premiership season, he couldn't have done any worse after all could he?

 

But, hey, what do I know, I didn't want Nigel sacked.......ha ha

[Ewetube]

For question 3 I can say I'd dislike Forest a lot less if Davros wasn't in charge, whereas my dislike for him is constant.

[MuespachRam]

Couldn't ******* stand him and the football was *****.

yep...all that winning was awful...I hated it...especially when we went to Wembley and won down there too...that was just the worst ever.......

[tomsdubs]

yep...all that winning was awful...I hated it...especially when we went to Wembley and won down there too...that was just the worst ever.......

 

Score one goal and defend, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You'll find your above post is out of touch with the majority of fans views. His management style is a disaster and he is majorly out of his depth above top 6 in the Championship.

[McRamFan]

yep...all that winning was awful...I hated it...especially when we went to Wembley and won down there too...that was just the worst ever.......

 

 

I was at Wembley, it was a awful day, awful match and an awful manager.  Me and my mates all agreed that we would be screwed with him in charge.

[MuespachRam]

I was at Wembley, it was a awful day, awful match and an awful manager. Me and my mates all agreed that we would be screwed with him in charge.

So you didn't enjoy winning at wembley...guess what...you are lying.