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the 'honest appraisal' debate.....

Mostyn6

By Mostyn6
in Derby County Forum

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ronnieronalde

ronnieronalde

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I think we have established that there's no such thing as an answer, I certainly don't think Warnock is the answer. I think he's a better answer than Clough is, but there are no guarantees when appointing someone else. Every good manager has a bad job in him, many bad managers have a good job in them. I struggle to accept fear of not knowing who the next manager is as a good enough reason to continue with a manager that in honesty, we ALL know won't improve, in a job.

 

 

And again. We don't ALL know that at all. Some of us or at least one of us thinks totally opposite, especially when faced with the facts of improvement in performance in 13 of his 15 seasons as a manager so far.

 

Would that suggest that he's not likely to be able to improve or would that suggest that usually he does actually improve. 13 out of 15 is a pretty solid statistic to base an estimate on.

 

And again, the title of the thread.

 

It's not an honest appraisal at all, it's Mostyns honest appraisal.

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

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When you keep adding bits like that, it shows you're pushing a point for the sake of it. We've had this row pretty consistently as well.

 

You don't need to make crap up to have a go at him.

 

I'm sorry you seem so offended by the facts Ronnie, but that's your issue, not mine. It is a FACT that in the rules, to manage in the championship, you need to have a minimum qualification level. There are about 2 or 3 levels higher that exist. Clough has JUST (as in 2-3 months ago) attained the most basic of qualifications at this level.

 

I've made nothing up. The facts are out there if you care to open your eyes duck.

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

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And again. We don't ALL know that at all. Some of us or at least one of us thinks totally opposite, especially when faced with the facts of improvement in performance in 13 of his 15 seasons as a manager so far.

 

Would that suggest that he's not likely to be able to improve or would that suggest that usually he does actually improve. 13 out of 15 is a pretty solid statistic to base an estimate on.

 

And again, the title of the thread.

 

It's not an honest appraisal at all, it's Mostyns honest appraisal.

 

If I draw your attention back to the 'debate' created by Bris, we had less points last season, than the one before. Is that an improvement? I think as they flipped, it's about a plateau. I regard a raft of positions to be equal to each other. 16-20th is a struggle, 8-15 is mid-table. Points in between are marginal. Mental strength is an issue here, we could easily have had a play-off position last season, the Wolves game, both Owls games and others...but Clough is not a winner. He is yet to improve 'notably' in professional/league football.

 

As for the title, I'm saddened the accuracy of it failed you. the word 'debate' refers to the fact we (should be) all giving our own honest appraisal, and not that mine over-rules anyone else's!

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ronnieronalde

ronnieronalde

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2345771/Peter-Schmeichel-Robbie-Fowler-Nigel-Clough-UEFA-A-Licence-coaching-course.html

 

that's an article mentioning that he's taking his UEFA A course, how many levels are above that?

 

In case you don't know or as I suspect are making crap up, here's another link for you to spend some time reading.

 

http://www.thefa.com/my-football/football-volunteers/CoachingVolunteering/Get%20Into%20Coaching/CoachingPathway

 

I'm sorry that I'm offended by people making crap up and then trying to pass it off as fact and then telling me I'm wrong.

 

That's what offends me.

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

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That's one thing that baffles me.

If Nige isn't up to the task then why isn't there pressure on him all the time? Of course he's not going to lose them all. If his win ratio isn't high enough (it's ok saying its such and such % but there's other factors.

 

I would say, simply, even with a lack of faith, I am desperate for things to click for Nigel. I'd love it for a multitude of reasons if he had that bit of magic about him to bring us joy. I would like to think that others still want him to do well and feel loved here too.

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2345771/Peter-Schmeichel-Robbie-Fowler-Nigel-Clough-UEFA-A-Licence-coaching-course.html

 

that's an article mentioning that he's taking his UEFA A course, how many levels are above that?

 

In case you don't know or as I suspect are making crap up, here's another link for you to spend some time reading.

 

http://www.thefa.com/my-football/football-volunteers/CoachingVolunteering/Get%20Into%20Coaching/CoachingPathway

 

I'm sorry that I'm offended by people making crap up and then trying to pass it off as fact and then telling me I'm wrong.

 

That's what offends me.

 

there are a couple of UEFA ones which are needed for the Premier League, and then a new one too.

 

Nigel didn't have his qualification until this summer... so which bit am I making up?

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sage

sage

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not sure how your 'balanced' opening post sits with your earlier comments that you knew 5 years ago and after 15 games that Clough couldn't take us any further.

Why we have to keep having the same thread over and over again is beyond me.

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Gaspode

Gaspode

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Yeah but look at the quality in both of the sides you mentioned.

 

I'd kill to have some of the players Leicester or Readings side at this level.

 

true, but if we want to progress, we have to overcome the difference in ability by having better tactics (or at least the players doing their jobs properly) - against Reading for example, it was clear to virtually everyone in the ground that we needed a change in the 2nd half if we were going to break them down - yet Clough stubbornly stuck with his original formation until it was too late

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Ambitious

Ambitious

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true, but if we want to progress, we have to overcome the difference in ability by having better tactics (or at least the players doing their jobs properly) - against Reading for example, it was clear to virtually everyone in the ground that we needed a change in the 2nd half if we were going to break them down - yet Clough stubbornly stuck with his original formation until it was too late

 

First half against Reading we played really well, good first half.

 

And then second half they hit us twice because we weren't switched on or aware - I wish sometimes we had an extra centre back on the bench, to come on for the last 15 - and allow us to play 5 at the back, because teams in this league when 1 goal down will go straight for the long ball, and knock downs.

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ronnieronalde

ronnieronalde

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there are a couple of UEFA ones which are needed for the Premier League, and then a new one too.

 

Nigel didn't have his qualification until this summer... so which bit am I making up?

 

 

You're making the bit up where you said

 

"and Nigel Clough finally going to get a basic coaching qualification"

 

Thats the bit you made up.

 

As you musn't have read that link I gave you to stop you digging yourself further into a hole, I'll quote it for you on here.

 

The UEFA A Licence is the highest practical coaching award available. It follows the UEFA B Licence and can lead onto the FA Academy Managers or the UEFA Pro Licence award. The content meets UEFA guidelines and the course runs for a minimum of 120 hours. It is suitable for coaches working with a team playing 11-a-side.

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Stive Pesley

Stive Pesley

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hang on - does this mean that Mostyn has to now apologise? No - hang on

 

there are a couple of UEFA ones which are needed for the Premier League, and then a new one too.

 

Nigel didn't have his qualification until this summer... so which bit am I making up?

 

Well the article from June says

 

 

Former football stars Robbie Fowler, Peter Schmeichel and Nigel Clough all took part in a course earlier this summer to obtain their UEFA A coaching badges

 

Which I assume is the one that you are saying he achieved this summer

 

And the FA coaching pathway website says:

 

The UEFA A Licence is the highest practical coaching award available.

 

So when you say:

 

 

2 or 3 levels higher that exist. Clough has JUST (as in 2-3 months ago) attained the most basic of qualifications at this level.

 

Don't expect to not be called out for bullsh1tting

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ronnieronalde

ronnieronalde

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there are a couple of UEFA ones which are needed for the Premier League, and then a new one too.

 

Nigel didn't have his qualification until this summer... so which bit am I making up?

 

 

Honestly mostyn, you don't need to do that kind of stuff. It really just kicks you in the nuts as a proper poster, you're not a WUM so don't try to be one, stick to the facts and talk about the football and I'm sure you wouldn't take half the stick you do. When you talk football, proper football without trying to stick an agenda in there, you would offer a lot to this place.

 

 

don't worry about apologising, I'm sure you're packing.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXXRHpVed3M

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

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right, without the qualification Clough has JUST attained, he would not be able to take a job in the Championship. He had a B licence, but as he was already in the Derby job, he was allowed special dispensation. As the A licence is the minimal requirement, it is the basic qualification at this level.

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

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Mostyn - by STILL trying to argue your way out of bullsh!t corner you're just making it worse...

 

GET A GRIP.

 

I wrote something in good faith, "bullshitting", unless I'm again mistaken is where you deliberately mislead someone by saying something untrue. I KNOW for a fact there is a rule in the Football League rules stipulating that managers need a minimum qualification. I KNOW for a fact that Clough has only just got this said qualification. I KNOW for a fact that there are two (or more) qualifications beyond this qualification for managers/coaches. 

 

So please point out the 'bullshit'?!!?

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Stive Pesley

Stive Pesley

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GET A GRIP.

 

I wrote something in good faith, "bullshitting", unless I'm again mistaken is where you deliberately mislead someone by saying something untrue. I KNOW for a fact there is a rule in the Football League rules stipulating that managers need a minimum qualification. I KNOW for a fact that Clough has only just got this said qualification. I KNOW for a fact that there are two (or more) qualifications beyond this qualification for managers/coaches. 

 

So please point out the 'bullshit'?!!?

 

"The UEFA A Licence is the highest practical coaching award available."

 

So maybe provide some links to your "fact" that the FA Career Path website is wrong?

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