Apathy towards national team

[TuffLuff]

I thought Steve Nicholson wrote a quite good article today in the telegraph about the attendance at Reading for the recent u21 game against Moldova and that it actually opens up a wider debate.

 

I think its fair to say that people's enthusiasm for the national team has waned over the past few years of which there are many probable reasons (uninteresting football, cant identify with players etc). But I also believe there is a massive problem, in which if you live in the midlands or up north, when can you go see your national team? I think it makes it harder for people outside of london to connect with a national team when it is rare that they play outside of wembley. I can understand that players have to get used to a home pitch, but I dont think since wembley has re-opened it has been a massive advantage?

 

There are two simple ways to address this:

 

-u21/national team need to tour the country more. Play more friendlies at stadiums across the country to get people's interest and a chance to go and see the best English players. I suppose the u21's do, but maybe they need to make a bigger deal about them?

 

-If you cant travel the country drumming up fans, why dont you bring fans to wembley by offering packages to clubs? You could offer some tickets at a slightly reduced rate plus travel and help get the ground filled with a wide range of people from across the country. There would be a lot of logistics involved (you would probably have a continuing rota of clubs). But I believe the Moldova game didn't sell out, so why dont you get those tickets filled up with football fans who would want to be there?

[trekkie_ram]

Moving the games to Friday night hasn't helped (well, it's helped clubs with international players get an extra days rest).

 

You'll probably find the Wembley corporate tickets include England games for the next 'x' years to pay for the Stadium, and these make up a large number of the deficit from a full crowd. :-/

 

I don't disagree with your ideas.

[uttoxram75]

I'd much rather see England play Moldova at St. James Park in front of 52,000 or Old Trafford with 76,000 watching or even the City Ground with all the Forest fans there (i know, i know, 17,500 would not be great, but you get me drift.)

 

Unfortunately the people running our game cannot see past commercialisation and corporate sponsors. It envelops everything for the sake of short term gain against long term sustainability.

 

Bit like the way the country is run really....

[sage]

For a start don't play any u21 anywhere near London. Brum, Manchester, Yorkshire, Newcastle and of course Derby sbould be on a rota.

[uttoxram75]

Thinking about it - the new smaller stadiums like Derby, Leicester, Boro, Stoke, Preston, Bolton etc are perfect for u21 matches. You don't need 40,000 + grounds and it would surely be better for young lads playing for England in front of 25,000 noisy fans in a nearly full stadium.

[MuespachRam]

The FA have killed the whoole experience of watchign England....and fair play to them really, they had a mandate, to rid the England national team of it's unsavoury element and over the course of the last few years they ahev done it.......the only thing is that now they are realising that these "animals" they havge deterred from following England are actually the majority of the support that we have...hence the numbers dropping so badly.

 

.......tickets on sale on the day of the game for Scotland at home......failure to sell out Brazil, Scotland or Ireland at home.... they have killed the whole scene.

 

They will never play first team games away from Wembley, they have to play them there to pay off the stadium.

[bcnram]

The FA have killed the whoole experience of watchign England....and fair play to them really, they had a mandate, to rid the England national team of it's unsavoury element and over the course of the last few years they ahev done it.......the only thing is that now they are realising that these "animals" they havge deterred from following England are actually the majority of the support that we have...hence the numbers dropping so badly.

.......tickets on sale on the day of the game for Scotland at home......failure to sell out Brazil, Scotland or Ireland at home.... they have killed the whole scene.

They will never play first team games away from Wembley, they have to play them there to pay off the stadium.

Small price to pay to get rid of the moronic element who brought total shame on the country. Having said that, I suspect that we are getting bigger gates at the new Wembley for international games than we generally did for the old one.

[Ambitious]

I am quite critical when it comes to the national team.

 

Derby obviously would be lucky to have any of the players in that squad, never mind starting 11 and I will look for positives to revel in.

 

When I watch England, I get critical towards the players but the way I see it - these are the countries best players, and they should be better. When someone misses a pass, or looks rigid and uncreative I get frustrated.

 

The performance last night was ridiculously rigid and bland, baring in mind whatever we think of the players they still play at a very high level, and it's not like we have Conor Sammon, Simon Cox...etc playing for us. 

[MuespachRam]

Small price to pay to get rid of the moronic element who brought total shame on the country. Having said that, I suspect that we are getting bigger gates at the new Wembley for international games than we generally did for the old one.

The price we have paid is that now following England has become a completely joyless and uninteresting task. I went everywhere watchign them when the violence was at it's very worst and at no time at all did i get accidently mixed up in anything or innocently arrested etc, it is so easy to walk away from it all.

The attendances and demand for tickets has completely dropped off, like i said before, we couldn't even sell out at home for Scotland, Ireland or Brazil.....this is totally scyandalous for our national team.

 

At least it looks like tickets for the world cup next year will be easy to get hold of....

[VulcanRam]

Good debate this. 

 

Certainly the move to Friday night rules out nearly anyone who doesn't live in London (and plenty who do south of the river!). I'd love to take my lads to Wembley for an England game but no chance on a school weekday. 

 

The issue of the standard of players has long since been debated but there is a core mentality - stretching right down to youth football where I coach. The FA have brought in a whole raft of regulations this season to help players develop but there remains (and always will I think) a win at all costs mentality, even at u7 and u8 levels, which is no good to the development of players as they are terrified of making a mistake.

 

Then there is the number of players at U21 and full level playing week in, week out for their clubs.

 

But even those that do is a worry. You look at the likes of Theo Walcott - he's a fabulous player but he doesn't seem to have developed over the last few years and is still making the same mistakes as always. Is this down to poor coaching or is he simply not clever enough or good enough to take his game higher?

[ladyram]

The price we have paid is that now following England has become a completely joyless and uninteresting task. I went everywhere watchign them when the violence was at it's very worst and at no time at all did i get accidently mixed up in anything or innocently arrested etc, it is so easy to walk away from it all.

The attendances and demand for tickets has completely dropped off, like i said before, we couldn't even sell out at home for Scotland, Ireland or Brazil.....this is totally scyandalous for our national team.

At least it looks like tickets for the world cup next year will be easy to get hold of....

You make it sound like the violence is actually missed and that fighting actually contributed to having a good time? If I'm wrong, ok, but reading your last couple of posts, that's how you come across.

[bcnram]

The price we have paid is that now following England has become a completely joyless and uninteresting task. I went everywhere watchign them when the violence was at it's very worst and at no time at all did i get accidently mixed up in anything or innocently arrested etc, it is so easy to walk away from it all.

The attendances and demand for tickets has completely dropped off, like i said before, we couldn't even sell out at home for Scotland, Ireland or Brazil.....this is totally scyandalous for our national team.

 

At least it looks like tickets for the world cup next year will be easy to get hold of....

In 1990 we had gates at Wembley of Uraguay 38,000, Yugoslavia, 35,000, Denmark, 27,000 & Czechoslavakia 21,000. In the last year at Wembley the lowest gate was in excess of 60,000 against Moldova. So the drop off might not be quite what it seems to you - maybe just the enjoyment factor.

[MuespachRam]

In 1990 we had gates at Wembley of Uraguay 38,000, Yugoslavia, 35,000, Denmark, 27,000 & Czechoslavakia 21,000. In the last year at Wembley the lowest gate was in excess of 60,000 against Moldova. So the drop off might not be quite what it seems to you - maybe just the enjoyment factor.

1990 was the start of the BOOM following England, before that the gates were always terrible, I remember going to see them play teams like Turkey and hammering them 8-0 i think and there being a few thousand there (also remember goign to Brazil in 1986 at Wembley with 100,000 there)

The gates for the big games have dropped off, in the 90's we would never have struggled to sell out a game against Sctoland for instance.!

 

The movement of the games to a Friday is also a genius piece of innovation, ensuring that no one outside of London can go without taking a day off work. The Chumpions league and the Premiershite shouldn't be allowed to dictate to the FA when we play an international game.

 

As for missing the violence, i never said that, what i would say is that i miss the atmosphere, the spirit, the togetherness of follwing England, the violence, like i said before, was so easy to avoid if you really wanted to, and also so easy to get involved in if you wanted to.!

[WilkoRam]

The apathy is, in my eyes, purely down to the lack of enjoyment when watching England. The football is bland and lack a spark. The performances in the Euro's were awful and not much has changed. We are a well organised but ultimately not very enjoyable team to watch. I never agreed with the Hodgson appointment and I think that hasn't helped.

The games being London based doesn't create this apathy. Believe me there are a load of people down here who are just as apathetic towards the national team if not more so. There is less and less interest in the national team and it's because it's not interesting to watch. Provide entertainment and you'll get fans.

[Ambitious]

Get Will Hughes in the team.

 

The next Paul Schloes.

 

[GeneralRam]

The problem is, is that there is no competition for places. If there was, you'd see players fighting for their spots when they play. Look at Lambert recently - chuffed to play for his country and seems a likeable chap - if all the players acted like him I might give a damn about the national side a bit more.

[Ambitious]

The problem is, is that there is no competition for places. If there was, you'd see players fighting for their spots when they play. Look at Lambert recently - chuffed to play for his country and seems a likeable chap - if all the players acted like him I might give a damn about the national side a bit more.

 

I disagree. I believe there is tones of options - as a nation we have a very strong national pool, one of the strongest.

 

Our first team 11, however, is not very good.

 

I posted this earlier in the year, of our national pool - ALL possible options.

 

Goalkeepers

 

Joe Hart, Ben Foster, John Ruddy, Alex McCarthy, Fraser Forster, Jack Butland, David Stockdale, Mark Bunn, Kelvin Davies, Luke Steele, Jake Kean, Lee Grant, Alex Smithies, Jason Steele, Rob Green, Scott Carson.

 

 

Defenders

 

Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Phil Jagileka, Leighton Baines, Gary Cahill, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Kyle Walker, Joleon Lescott, Steven Caulker, Steven Taylor, Michael Dawson, Ryan Bertand, Carl Jenkinson, Ryan Shawcross, Keiran Gibbs, Andre Wisdom, Jack Robinson, Michael Keane, Luke Shaw, John Stones, Eric Dier, Nathan Baker, Joe Bennett, Matthew Lowton, John Brayford, Mark Hudson, Tony Hibbert,  Matthew Briggs, James Chester, Martin Kelly, Micah Richards, Mike Williamson, Ryan Taylor, Michael Turner, Nathaniel Clyne, Ryan Shotton, Danny Rose, Kyle Naughton, Adam Smith, Liam Ridgewell, Craig Dawson, Billy Jones, James Tomkins, Jordan Spence, Scott Dann, Matthew Upson, Chris Solly, Jack Hunt, Aaron Cresswell, Sam Byram, Tom Lees, Stephen Warnock, Wes Morgan, Kelvin Wilson, Anton Ferdinand, Danny Simpson, Wayne Bridge, James Perch, Leon Barnett.

 

 

Midfielders

 

Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, James Milner, Michael Carrick, Alex Ox-Chamb, Tom Cleverley, Jack Whilshere, Wilfred Zaha, Jack Rodwell, Scott Parker, Leon Osman, Aaron Lennon, Tom Huddlestone, Jonjo Shelvey, Raheem Sterling, Adam Johnson, Jake Livermore, Adam Lallana, Nathaniel Chalobah, Ross Barkley, Will Hughes, Tom Carroll, Nathan Redmond, Tom Ince, Sammy Ameobi, Marc Albrighton, Ashley Westwood, Fabien Delph, Peter Whittingham, Jordan Mutch, Craig Noone, Josh McEachran, Steve Sidwell, Jordan Henderson, Stewart Downing, Scott Sinclair, Gareth Barry, Ashley Young, Nick Powell, Gael Bigirimana, Bradley Johnson, Jonny Howson, Elliott Bennett, Jacob Butterfield, James Ward-Prowse, Jack Cork, Jason Puncheon, Jermaine Pennant, Michael Kightly, Mattew Etherington, Lee Cattermole, Jack Colback, Craig Gardner, Leon Britton, Nathan Dyer, Wayne Routledge, Andros Townsend, Matt Jarvis, Matthew Taylor, Ravel Morrison, Mark Noble, Joe Cole, Chris Eagles, Mark Davies, Darren Pratley, Will Buckley, Henri Lansbury, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Joey Barton, Michail Antonio, Lewis McGugan, Ben Watson.

 

 

Strikers

 

Theo Walcott, David Welbeck, Wayne Rooney, Rickie Lambert, Andy Carroll, Daniel Sturridge, Connor Wickham, Harry Kane, Benik Afobe, Will Keane, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Nathan Delfouneso, Darren Bent, Fraizer Campbell, Dwight Gayle, Glenn Murray, Gary Hooper, Jay Rodriguez, Peter Crouch, Cameron Jerome, Danny Graham, Jermaine Defoe, James Vaughan, David Nugent, Lukas Jutkiewicz, Charlie Austin, Bobby Zamora, Adam Le Fondre, Troy Deeney, Grant Holt, Callum McManaman. 

 

I believe that to be very strong, when you consider all the other national teams. 

[MuespachRam]

So you think a team of...

 

Lee Grant

 

John Brayford

 

Anton Ferdinand

 

Wes morgan

 

Liam Ridgewell

 

Jason Puncheon

 

Henri Lansbury

 

Shaun Wright-Phillips

 

Chris Eagles

 

Cameron Jerome

 

Grant Holt

 

is STRONG.....?

 

And I picked some of the better players from that list too..

 

We have a decent 11, we have an average bench, we have a below average reserve bunch and the rest are a million miles off being international class.

We are currently so far behind even "the Golden Generation" and look what they managed to acheive...

From last nights starting 11 none of them would get in against the legendary "golden generation" and they never came close to winning anything.

 

I think your list just highlights where we are in the international football stakes......behind

[Ambitious]

So you think a team of...

 

Lee Grant

 

John Brayford

 

Anton Ferdinand

 

Wes morgan

 

Liam Ridgewell

 

Jason Puncheon

 

Henri Lansbury

 

Shaun Wright-Phillips

 

Chris Eagles

 

Cameron Jerome

 

Grant Holt

 

is STRONG.....?

 

And I picked some of the better players from that list too..

 

We have a decent 11, we have an average bench, we have a below average reserve bunch and the rest are a million miles off being international class.

We are currently so far behind even "the Golden Generation" and look what they managed to acheive...

From last nights starting 11 none of them would get in against the legendary "golden generation" and they never came close to winning anything.

 

I think your list just highlights where we are in the international football stakes......behind

 

 

Stronger than most countries can put out and that would be our 15th choice team? well in actual fact would be about 40th/50th choice team

[GeneralRam]

I disagree. I believe there is tones of options - as a nation we have a very strong national pool, one of the strongest.

 

Our first team 11, however, is not very good.

 

I posted this earlier in the year, of our national pool - ALL possible options.

 

Goalkeepers

 

Joe Hart, Ben Foster, John Ruddy, Alex McCarthy, Fraser Forster, Jack Butland, David Stockdale, Mark Bunn, Kelvin Davies, Luke Steele, Jake Kean, Lee Grant, Alex Smithies, Jason Steele, Rob Green, Scott Carson.

 

 

Defenders

 

Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Phil Jagileka, Leighton Baines, Gary Cahill, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Kyle Walker, Joleon Lescott, Steven Caulker, Steven Taylor, Michael Dawson, Ryan Bertand, Carl Jenkinson, Ryan Shawcross, Keiran Gibbs, Andre Wisdom, Jack Robinson, Michael Keane, Luke Shaw, John Stones, Eric Dier, Nathan Baker, Joe Bennett, Matthew Lowton, John Brayford, Mark Hudson, Tony Hibbert,  Matthew Briggs, James Chester, Martin Kelly, Micah Richards, Mike Williamson, Ryan Taylor, Michael Turner, Nathaniel Clyne, Ryan Shotton, Danny Rose, Kyle Naughton, Adam Smith, Liam Ridgewell, Craig Dawson, Billy Jones, James Tomkins, Jordan Spence, Scott Dann, Matthew Upson, Chris Solly, Jack Hunt, Aaron Cresswell, Sam Byram, Tom Lees, Stephen Warnock, Wes Morgan, Kelvin Wilson, Anton Ferdinand, Danny Simpson, Wayne Bridge, James Perch, Leon Barnett.

 

 

Midfielders

 

Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, James Milner, Michael Carrick, Alex Ox-Chamb, Tom Cleverley, Jack Whilshere, Wilfred Zaha, Jack Rodwell, Scott Parker, Leon Osman, Aaron Lennon, Tom Huddlestone, Jonjo Shelvey, Raheem Sterling, Adam Johnson, Jake Livermore, Adam Lallana, Nathaniel Chalobah, Ross Barkley, Will Hughes, Tom Carroll, Nathan Redmond, Tom Ince, Sammy Ameobi, Marc Albrighton, Ashley Westwood, Fabien Delph, Peter Whittingham, Jordan Mutch, Craig Noone, Josh McEachran, Steve Sidwell, Jordan Henderson, Stewart Downing, Scott Sinclair, Gareth Barry, Ashley Young, Nick Powell, Gael Bigirimana, Bradley Johnson, Jonny Howson, Elliott Bennett, Jacob Butterfield, James Ward-Prowse, Jack Cork, Jason Puncheon, Jermaine Pennant, Michael Kightly, Mattew Etherington, Lee Cattermole, Jack Colback, Craig Gardner, Leon Britton, Nathan Dyer, Wayne Routledge, Andros Townsend, Matt Jarvis, Matthew Taylor, Ravel Morrison, Mark Noble, Joe Cole, Chris Eagles, Mark Davies, Darren Pratley, Will Buckley, Henri Lansbury, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Joey Barton, Michail Antonio, Lewis McGugan, Ben Watson.

 

 

Strikers

 

Theo Walcott, David Welbeck, Wayne Rooney, Rickie Lambert, Andy Carroll, Daniel Sturridge, Connor Wickham, Harry Kane, Benik Afobe, Will Keane, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Nathan Delfouneso, Darren Bent, Fraizer Campbell, Dwight Gayle, Glenn Murray, Gary Hooper, Jay Rodriguez, Peter Crouch, Cameron Jerome, Danny Graham, Jermaine Defoe, James Vaughan, David Nugent, Lukas Jutkiewicz, Charlie Austin, Bobby Zamora, Adam Le Fondre, Troy Deeney, Grant Holt, Callum McManaman. 

 

I believe that to be very strong, when you consider all the other national teams. 

 

 

Goalkeeper list: Can you seriously see any of those challenging Joe Hart for the #1 spot!?

 

Defenders Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Phil Jagileka, Leighton Baines, Gary Cahill, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Kyle Walker, Joleon Lescott, (Maybe Shawcross)

 

Midfielders Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, James Milner, Michael Carrick, Alex Ox-Chamb, Tom Cleverley, Jack Whilshere, Wilfred Zaha

 

Strikers Theo Walcott, Welbeck, Wayne Rooney, Rickie Lambert, Andy Carroll, Daniel Sturridge, Darren Bent.

 

That is basically our pool of international players. The best players in this selection may get dropped for the others I've listed, but anyone else outside this selection wouldn't even get a look in. Not one bit.

 

What an awful national team.

 

EDIT -  I've released I missed a couple of players out, such as Ashley Young (Althoguh he is playing bad at the minute) but I believe my point still stands so won't bother editing it.