Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't think many are defending them particularly but pointing out that the punishment is well over the top. I was out last Friday and heard a bloke launch into some anti gay/ anti muslim rant in the pub, the blokes undoubtedly a grade A cvnt and deserving of a slap, but at the end of the day he went home, probably woke up with a cracking hangover but still had the option to visit the pubs of Northamptonshire. Why if it is said down at the football are you banned from ALL football grounds in the country for 3 years, known by Derbyshire police for god knows how long and have to surrender you passports on a semi frequent basis over the 3 years. The point is that if someone had reported the bloke in the pub to the police, he'd not just be banned from the boozers of Northants but possibly facing up to 7 years in jail. Doing it at a footbal ground, especially as an away fan where the police have cameras trained on you is crazy. They deserve all they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 So you think that calling someone fat or bald is not done as an insult but as a term of endearment? I assume therefore you would find calling someone a black ******* would be acceptable on the basis that it is a physical description? I'm not saying it's not used as an insult... It is... And it's unpleasant... As mentioned I have been on the receiving end of both of those insults... Trust me it's even worse when you Gran just turns round and says "Oh dear, you seem to be going bald dear" BUT they aren't associated with long term abuse and the association that someone is inferior by virtue of race/relegion/sexuality which the other insults you raised are... I know some people feel awkward using the word 'black' at all... It's just a descriptor... So yeh, I regularly describe people as black... But using it a la John Terry is unacceptable, because his use of it implied that somehow being black made him inferior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I find it funny when an overweight fan shouts 'you fat b****d' at a goalie who is not fat at all. ...but I wonder what that fans' reaction would be if the player shouted that back at him? 'Fat' Frank Lampard... Always find that amusing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 GreenRam, whilst you're correct, people shouldn't be allowed to offend people, I do wonder if people get offended for offended's sake. Only a gay person could really be offended by homophobia. Only a black person could really be offended by the N word I disagree... I find them both offensive as it's perpetuating the negative sterotype which they represent... I find it offensive that people who are part of the country I live in are stupid enough to use such insults... I find it offensive that people may associate me with homophobes just because I support the same club as they do... And I'm not easily offended when it comes to people throwing insults at me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I disagree... I find them both offensive as it's perpetuating the negative sterotype which they represent... I find it offensive that people who are part of the country I live in are stupid enough to use such insults... I find it offensive that people may associate me with homophobes just because I support the same club as they do... And I'm not easily offended when it comes to people throwing insults at me... I'm also inclined to disagree with the statement that "only a gay person could truly be offended by homophobia" If you saw a gay person being beaten up in the street in a homophobic incident, would you not intervene because it's not offensive to you? Invoking Godwin's Law - should only an army of Jews have fought Hitler ? Homophobia and Racism are generall considered to be morally wrong. That's why we have laws against them. If you think you can't be offended by them because they don't affect you then fair enough but that suggests your moral compass is a bit off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'm not saying it's not used as an insult... It is... And it's unpleasant... As mentioned I have been on the receiving end of both of those insults... Trust me it's even worse when you Gran just turns round and says "Oh dear, you seem to be going bald dear" BUT they aren't associated with long term abuse and the association that someone is inferior by virtue of race/relegion/sexuality which the other insults you raised are... I know some people feel awkward using the word 'black' at all... It's just a descriptor... So yeh, I regularly describe people as black... But using it a la John Terry is unacceptable, because his use of it implied that somehow being black made him inferior... Well you fat barsteward has been aimed as insult as long as I have been attending matches, and this all follows on from fat people being bullied at school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'm also inclined to disagree with the statement that "only a gay person could truly be offended by homophobia" If you saw a gay person being beaten up in the street in a homophobic incident, would you not intervene because it's not offensive to you? Invoking Godwin's Law - should only an army of Jews have fought Hitler ? Homophobia and Racism are generall considered to be morally wrong. That's why we have laws against them. If you think you can't be offended by them because they don't affect you then fair enough but that suggests your moral compass is a bit off Do you think people who use the C word at football matches should be banned for all grounds for 3 years? I find this equally offensive as any of the other terms I have seen used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'm also inclined to disagree with the statement that "only a gay person could truly be offended by homophobia" If you saw a gay person being beaten up in the street in a homophobic incident, would you not intervene because it's not offensive to you? Invoking Godwin's Law - should only an army of Jews have fought Hitler ? Homophobia and Racism are generall considered to be morally wrong. That's why we have laws against them. If you think you can't be offended by them because they don't affect you then fair enough but that suggests your moral compass is a bit off right lets get one thing straight, 'homophobia' is a fear of homosexuality, or in most cases, a lack of understanding. 'Beating someone up' is a hate crime, they are miles apart in every possible way. I wouldn't like to see anyone beaten up, black, white, pink, gay, straight, old or young and anything in between. What I'm saying is, if someone calls someone else 'gay', YOU personally shouldn't be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 3 year ban for probably singing 'you only sing when you're bumming' or something of that ilk. I find it ridiculous it was even noticed at all. "we can see you holding hands", this seems ridiculous to me! This "abuse" isn't directed at anyone, just playing on a towns stereotype. I'm pretty sure you won't get arrested for homophobic behaviour against anyone other than Brighton. Is it really worse than calling us, Cardiff or Swansea sheep shaggers? How long until that is banned? Do I have sex with sheep? No... Does that "abuse" offend me? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Do you think people who use the C word at football matches should be banned for all grounds for 3 years? I find this equally offensive as any of the other terms I have seen used. Come on - is that a serious question? It's not about what an individual finds offensive, it's about the laws of this country designed to protect groups of people against persecution and hatred. Why aren't people grasping that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Well you fat barsteward has been aimed as insult as long as I have been attending matches, and this all follows on from fat people being bullied at school. Fine... You're right... That should be stopped as well... Doesn't make your "Being calle Fat and being called a Nigger is the same" argument any more valid... In fact it just means that you shouldn't call people fat either... Just stick with calling people stupid cnuts... then the only people you'll offend is women... and they deserve it... lost the british empire cos we gave them the vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 People are hammered for being fat at football, " who ate all the pies" being a famous example. This really is the start of something stupid! Singling people out for homophobic abuse is not acceptable I'd say, just singing general songs is banter in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I might write to the club to ban everyone for 3 years that sings offensive songs about shagging sheep.. it.. it does really get me down, y'know. "http://stream1soup.com/view/110950/jack-bauer-cry-o" alt="jack-bauer-cry-o"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Come on - is that a serious question? It's not about what an individual finds offensive, it's about the laws of this country designed to protect groups of people against persecution and hatred. Why aren't people grasping that? Yes it's a very serious question. If there are laws against calling people because of their colour or sexual orientation, why are there not laws against calling people because of their physical appearance? You don't need to answer this by the way...we all know its about political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 right lets get one thing straight, 'homophobia' is a fear of homosexuality, or in most cases, a lack of understanding. 'Beating someone up' is a hate crime, they are miles apart in every possible way. I wouldn't like to see anyone beaten up, black, white, pink, gay, straight, old or young and anything in between. What I'm saying is, if someone calls someone else 'gay', YOU personally shouldn't be offended. Why not? Are you saying that might is right? Only gay people should be offended and they're in the minority therefore it should be fine to use the terms? I find it offensive because it highlights an ignorance in our society which we should all be working hard to wipe out... "we can see you holding hands", this seems ridiculous to me! This "abuse" isn't directed at anyone, just playing on a towns stereotype. I'm pretty sure you won't get arrested for homophobic behaviour against anyone other than Brighton. Is it really worse than calling us, Cardiff or Swansea sheep shaggers? How long until that is banned? Do I have sex with sheep? No... Does that "abuse" offend me? No Sheep Shagger in our case comes from the Ram on our logo... and for Cardiff and Wales because of a national association (which is kinda bad TBH)... The difference is that Brighton the football club has nothing to do with the 'reputation' of the city being a popular destination for gay people... and Brigton fans will tell you (as the commenter here did) that they embrace the gay-friendly nature of their city (most do anyway)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 right lets get one thing straight, 'homophobia' is a fear of homosexuality, or in most cases, a lack of understanding. 'Beating someone up' is a hate crime, they are miles apart in every possible way. I wouldn't like to see anyone beaten up, black, white, pink, gay, straight, old or young and anything in between. What I'm saying is, if someone calls someone else 'gay', YOU personally shouldn't be offended. Maybe not offended directly by the insult (as it's directed at someone else) but I'm offended by the caller's morals and by his inherent stupidity and outright ignorance. You're right of course about the true meaning of the word homophobia, but for some reason the word has become interchangeable within the English language with any sort of abuse (verbal or physical) of gay people. Cleverly pointing out that people aren't using a word right is not really addressing the issue though. It's funny in a way. I imagine that a thug who beats up a gay person would take it quite badly if you suggested that they did it because they were scared of their victim.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I might write to the club to ban everyone for 3 years that sings offensive songs about shagging sheep.. it.. it does really get me down, y'know. For someone who's opinion I generally respect on here it makes me sad that you take this line... Homophobia and homophobic abuse is a really serious issue... People have died because of the ignorance surrounding it... And it's especially bad in football where very few players are able to come out since their is still such a stigma attached to it... People have every right to an opinion, and every right to express it... We should just do everything in our power to stamp out ignorant opinons like homophobia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'm banning myself from Pride Park for three years after being offended by what I've seen on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Anyhow, three pages in, and no-one has actually revealed what these two blokes did - whether it was vile hatred based at an individual/family or just joining in with general "banter" chants aimed at no-one in particular. So I'm not sure how we got so far with the thread. Does anyone actually know what they said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 For someone who's opinion I generally respect on here it makes me sad that you take this line... Homophobia and homophobic abuse is a really serious issue... People have died because of the ignorance surrounding it... And it's especially bad in football where very few players are able to come out since their is still such a stigma attached to it... People have every right to an opinion, and every right to express it... We should just do everything in our power to stamp out ignorant opinons like homophobia... I just don't see the big issue personally, it seems me and Alpha have similar view points on the sense that I have never ever been offended by anything that anyone has said, at any point in my life - doesn't bother me in the slightest, if someone started abusing me because I am white it wouldn't bother me, if people were abusing me for being straight wouldn't bother me.. when people take the piss out of my seizures, it doesn't bother me... I'm dead against things like 'his gay so he shouldn't be allowed in the changing room'...etc but in this case a few comments doesn't mean they're homophobic - we've all made a homophobic comment like alpha said, it's probably the most used insult in the country. I just think it's a bit daft but everyone will have different stand points for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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