notts_ram Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 They're better, but the money they've spent has allowed that - it doesn't guarantee success, but they have players that we just couldn't afford, or dream of signing. Are the new mouthpiece for the Clough propaganda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Are the new mouthpiece for the Clough propaganda It's just common sense, if we signed a player for 2million pound I would expect him to be better than one signed for 150k - having money opens doors, how can you argue it doesn't? would Chelsea/Man Utd...etc be as successful with our budget? of course not, they've spent money to get where they are, whether it be on players/academy/coaches/management...etc it's all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 To the person who said that we have. Million pound striker on the bench.... How many more managers in this division would have paid 1.2 million for Sammon?!?! The whole of Leicesters defence for me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Then question marks have to be asked. Morgan cost practically the same as Keogh. Moore through the youth system De Laet a million (rumoured) Schlump through the youth system Hardly sky high transfer fees are they? How many of those will be on ridiculous wages? two of the four are youth graduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Then question marks have to be asked. Morgan cost practically the same as Keogh. Moore through the youth system De Laet a million (rumoured) Schlump through the youth system Hardly sky high transfer fees are they? How many of those will be on ridiculous wages? two of the four are youth graduates. schlupp would be on a good amount for his age I guess,morgan and De laet would be on decent whack, wouldn't know with moore but probably if comparing on more than freeman and bucko combined just my opinion no facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Then question marks have to be asked. Morgan cost practically the same as Keogh. Moore through the youth system De Laet a million (rumoured) Schlump through the youth system Hardly sky high transfer fees are they? How many of those will be on ridiculous wages? two of the four are youth graduates. St Ledger was 3million, and reportedly on 20k a week - he was injured, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stedcfc Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I think having 2 really inexperienced full backs is a bit of an issue. When we had brayford and roberts they probably had the ball more than anybody else on the pitch, now we seem to be trying to play it right through the middle of the pitch via the centre backs. I like both freeman and forsyth but I think were weaker going forward now through those positions. Forsyth seems to play a lot of long balls and his distribution was pretty poor yesterday. That said most of the time there was nobody in front of him and our full backs were almost playing 2 positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I think having 2 really inexperienced full backs is a bit of an issue. When we had brayford and roberts they probably had the ball more than anybody else on the pitch, now we seem to be trying to play it right through the middle of the pitch via the centre backs. I like both freeman and forsyth but I think were weaker going forward now through those positions. Forsyth seems to play a lot of long balls and his distribution was pretty poor yesterday. That said most of the time there was nobody in front of him and our full backs were almost playing 2 positions. Not sure I agree with that. Particularly re LB, Forsyth is a definite improvement on Roberts going forward. And Freeman looks lively. Easy to forget in the post-mortem from yesterday but both laid on assists at Brighton. All in all, I'm reasonably satisfied so far. People grossly under-estimate how good the 3 teams we've played have been - quality in all 3 & if Blackburn weren't such a basketcase, you'd expect all 3 to be challenging the top 6. We could have beaten Blackburn, we did beat Brighton, we were unlucky against Leics & finished very strongly. Considering the hammerings we've taken off the binrobbers in recent seasons, I'd see our dominance in terms of shots & possession (albeit not the result) as a sign we're improving. Re the 3 CM's - I tend to agree with most on here, I'm not a fan. I like the diamond formation in midfield but not the personnel. Definitely Hughes at the tip & Hendrick at the base but I'd like to see Jacobs in place of Bryson. Don't get me wrong, I like Bryson but that's mainly due to work ethic not quality. Jacobs on the other hand makes things happen, is direct & is naturally inclined to drift wide as opposed to clogging up the centre of the midfield. This will undoubtedly help when trying to unlock defences at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 It's just common sense, if we signed a player for 2million pound I would expect him to be better than one signed for 150k - having money opens doors, how can you argue it doesn't? would Chelsea/Man Utd...etc be as successful with our budget? of course not, they've spent money to get where they are, whether it be on players/academy/coaches/management...etc it's all the same. I'll give you that Leicester's side man for man cost more than Derbys, it doesnt necessarily follow though that their team is better than ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Wait a minute here... Do people on here really think we were the second best side at the weekend? I didn't think we played well but there was only one team on saturday with an ounce of positivity... So far we've come up against 3 teams we usually struggle against... two teams at home where their main aim is to stop us playing, and a team away who have previously played us off the park... Now before the boo-boys (or BCOBs) jump on me for being 'a clough a**e-licker' I do think it's bad that we can't break teams like Blackburn and Leicester down...which would the mark of a really seriously good side... But please bear in mind that Leicester are probably the best team in the league now at playing 'traditional' championship football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feris bueller day off Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Maybe the diamond is the way to go away from home, at home we need some more width and quicker play generally. Clough seems to have his players he likes picking and fits them into a formation. Why does Jacobs never get a chance? When he does it's on the left wing, get him on the right beating his man and getting to the byline hopefully. I really rate Hughes, Hendrick and Bryson but can't be accommodated for the sake of it. Lack of competition for centre backs is poor in my eyes as well. Anyone else feel Clough is a bit of a "jobs for the boys" sort. His backroom staff, ex players from Albion getting coaching jobs, deeney getting new deal after new deal, Doyle as well. I feel sometimes like he just doesn't want to drop Buxton, Keogh, Hendrick, Hughes or bryson. Where as others such as Jacobs will get singled out mercilessly. He's a manager at the end of the day, doesn't and probably shouldn't have to be everyone's mate. Well said but as well as Jacobs I'd like Ben Davies to be given a go at least we'd have food delivery into the box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feris bueller day off Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Well said but as well as Jacobs I'd like Ben Davies to be given a go at least we'd have food delivery into the box! thats good delivery obviously, not red cross food parcels, bloody iPhone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Well said but as well as Jacobs I'd like Ben Davies to be given a go at least we'd have food delivery into the box! Got Chris Martin excited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Got Chris Martin excited Kris Commons requested an instant transfer back here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Kris Commons requested an instant transfer back here Andy Reid'll be able to smell it from down the road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Thinking of this thread, I had a look at all the championship squads - and made a theoretical 11 in my head, and hence therefore the teams with more 'better' players in positions than us - the better teams, and if not then they're worse IMO (obviously) I haven't seen a lot of players, so done purely on guess work through reports, fan views and media coverage. I came to the conclusion that we're 11th best side in the division overall (on paper at least) - Boro, Forest, Blackburn, Brighton, Wigan, Bolton, Leicester, Watford, QPR and Reading all had the better majority of players. Boro, Forest and Blackburn. 5 Derby to 6 of theirs. Brighton, Wigan and Bolton. 4 Derby to 7 of theirs. Leicester and Watford. 3 Derby to 8 of theirs. QPR and Reading. 2 Derby to 9 of theirs. on the otherside, I had; Birmingham, Yeovil and Barnsley. 10 Derby to 1 of theirs. Wednesday, Bournemouth, Blackpool and Doncaster. 9 to 2 of theirs. Ipswich. 8 Derby to 3 of theirs. Charlton and Millwall. 7 Derby to 4 of theirs. Leeds, Burnley and Huddersfield. 6 Derby to 5 of theirs. So pretty much what you would expect to see, now obviously this is difficult to envisage as it isn't always about 'the best team' but the better players of each team into an 11 - so best goalkeeper, defenders..etc because of that, I was able to make a rough estimate to where I thought each position was, in terms of league position - I didn't have any in the top 6, sadly enough. Goalkeepers 10th - Leeds, Brighton, Leicester, Huddersfield, Bolton, QPR, Reading, Watford and Blackburn having better. Defenders 15th - Leeds, Brighton, Leicester, Bolton, QPR, Reading, Watford, Blackburn, Charlton, Wigan, Burnley, Boro, Forest and Ipswich having better. Midfielders 7th - Leicester, Bolton, QPR, Reading, Watford and Wigan having better. Strikers 7th - Leicester, QPR, Reading, Watford, Wigan and Boro having better. so to summarise, in a point - we're a middle of the road championship club with our quality should be finishing 11th would be an appropriate place for this squad. We have no area on the pitch that is full of top 6 quality, however, in each position Keogh would be selected in 15 other championship sides, Hughes would slot into any side in the division as would Ward, Hendrick in 17 and Russell I had in 14 other championship sides. It was a lot of faffing about, but for me - it put down on paper, what I sort of had knocking around in my head - the quality isn't top 6, not in any position - defensively we're a lower mid-table side, in midfield and upfront we have decent quality but not within the top 6 sides of the division. It's worth mentioning, out of the other 23 championship clubs - I could only realistically see Forsyth getting into 5, and freeman 6, and Buxton 6. I went of Keogh's last seasons form, and overall ability - which he hasn't even come close to this season, who made 15 of the teams I selected, which still means 8 defences at least were made up without him getting into their team. It was just a little bit of research (if you like, and a bit 'football manager like intrigue' to do this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Ambitious - I like what you have done and if only based on your option, it shows how bad our defence is lol. If B4 does this, I am sure he will select our starting 11 over every other one in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydrakin Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Alex Smithies and Jake Kean better than Grant? Not sure I agree with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Alex Smithies and Jake Kean better than Grant? Not sure I agree with that... You could argue the toss in many different directions - Kean has been excellent for Blackburn since breaking through, and Smithies has been a key consistent performer for huddersfield. How you could ultimately split them, I don't know. I just went on a number of theories as my actual time watching them has been limited, both have put MOTM performances in against us in the past 2 seasons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Ambitious, you are marking other players from other teams on ability and potential, yet marking our players on performance. That's a bit harsh and inconsistent. Perhaps if you marked our defence on home games only last season, we'd be top 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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