cheron85 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Sorry AnagRam, you're watching a different player to me, or perhaps you've been starved of seeing a player with technical ability for so long that you cannot interpret what he's doing. God help you if you'd ever been around when we had Asanovic, Baiano and Kinkladze, none of which worked any harder than Martin. I like Martin... And I totally agree that he's a classy footballer... He misplaced a LOT of easy passes when he was on loan with us which I didn't like BUT seeing as that seems to be one of Nigel's pet-peeves I would imagine he'll have that drilled out of him in short order... And that goals he scored were very well taken... However I don't see that he's a million times better than Sammon (very different players) yet seems to get nowhere near the levels of stick Sammon gets... (this is a Sammon defence not a Martin attack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Cause Sammon cost a **** load of money for us and he can't trap a bag of cement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well isn't that the obvious statement of the year. proud of that one? made yourself feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Yeah i am a bit. I mean mastermind wouldn't be able to hold me back with thoughts like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 we're lucky to have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Sammon loses the ball 95% of the time which causes mayhem for our team, not the opposition. Cause Sammon cost a **** load of money for us and he can't trap a bag of cement. Sorry, but it's lazy hyperbole like this that really 'gets my goat'. I can't be arsed to argue the point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Sorry, but it's lazy hyperbole like this that really 'gets my goat'. I can't be arsed to argue the point though. So why make the post? You may well disagree with me, but to label it 'lazy hyperbole' is pointless nonsense unless you say why. I stand by my point - Sammon gives the ball away far too much to be an effective hold up striker. To claim otherwise makes me suspect that you either don't go to games or don't watch very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Do I really have to tell you why saying Sammon loses the ball '95% of the time' and 'causes mayhem for our team' is lazy hyperbole? I posted because your original comment irritated me, simple as that. Your follow up comment about losing the ball too often to be an effective hold-up man was fair and not annoyingly overstated. However, your sinking-to-the-lows comment about not attending/watching games properly... well you know what you can do with that, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I would say that he's good in the air and holds the ball up far better than Sammon. Sammon loses the ball 95% of the time which causes mayhem for our team, not the opposition. Martin will feed Russell and we'll gain far more from that than we will from Sammon pressurising defenders. Looks like I am outnumbered on this one and that after 33 years of playing men's football I find I don't understand the game. I always understood it was important that once in a while a forward could jump higher than his defender and head the ball. I am just saying I haven't seen Martin do this. Whilst I agree he has talent in respect of ball control and passing a la Kinkladze, Asanovic etc he does not have their mobility. He is therefore easier to mark. When we eventually play against championship defenders you will be reminded just how ineffective he is over 90 minutes. If I am wrong (and as a Derby fan I hope I am) I will gladly re-post. I just think Sammon gives defenders a far harder time than Martin. He at least occasionally takes the ball off them. Martin relies on receiving the perfect pass all the time and as previous posters have pointed out, if we had players who could provide that with regularity, they wouldn't be in the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Martin was our best player tonight. Hughes MOM was deserved but Martin was the best player certainly. His touch was flawless and his interplay with Ward and Russell was pleasing. Same as a lot of people I would like to see Martin, Ward and Russell tested against prem standard vs West Brom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Good to have genuine competition for places. All our strikers bring something a little dfferent so i wouldn't be surprised to see them rotated a bit more to keep them fresh and hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Martin was our best player tonight. Hughes MOM was deserved but Martin was the best player certainly. How does that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 How does that work out? Well the people who vote thought Hughes was MOM and i am saying ok fair enough i can see why he deserved the award but in my opinion Martin was our best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well the people who vote thought Hughes was MOM and i am saying ok fair enough i can see why he deserved the award but in my opinion Martin was our best player.Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Martin was classy tonight, but Sammon looked sharp. I'd start Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Looks like I am outnumbered on this one and that after 33 years of playing men's football I find I don't understand the game. I always understood it was important that once in a while a forward could jump higher than his defender and head the ball. I am just saying I haven't seen Martin do this. Whilst I agree he has talent in respect of ball control and passing a la Kinkladze, Asanovic etc he does not have their mobility. He is therefore easier to mark. When we eventually play against championship defenders you will be reminded just how ineffective he is over 90 minutes. If I am wrong (and as a Derby fan I hope I am) I will gladly re-post. I just think Sammon gives defenders a far harder time than Martin. He at least occasionally takes the ball off them. Martin relies on receiving the perfect pass all the time and as previous posters have pointed out, if we had players who could provide that with regularity, they wouldn't be in the championship. I completely disagree with your views on Sammon and Martin's heading ability. In the games that I have seen (which was every home game bar three live, and the full 90 on Rams Player for the rest) Sammon is the one who doesn't jump - or if he does he bends his body and his head ends up lower than when he was standing. Martin, to me, does have a decent jump, and won far more in the air than Sammon. Other than that I know what you mean in the rest of your post. Martin has obvious ability, but is not mobile enough and can be frustrating because of that. I also hate the way he petulantly rolls around and whinges to the ref when an opposition player nudges him. IMO Martin would be far better to run a little more, play fifteen yards further forward and just get on with the game - all the things that Sammon does very well. Where I differ is in your value judgement of Sammon's contribution. He does pressurise defenders and give them a physically difficult time. However, I don't believe that these things add a great deal to the team - certainly they help a little, but not to the extent that Martins far better control, and subsequent ability to bring other players into the play does. So to me, Sammon offers energy and is an irritant to defenders, but he gives the ball away most of the time and his efforts do little to aid goal scoring - although clearly they help defensively as he pressurises defenders into making poor passes. Martin doesn't help in that way defensively, but he retains the ball, which in turn takes far more pressure from the defence, than all of Sammon's hustle and bustle. I think now that we have (hopefully) a clinical striker, having Martin there to feed him will be of infinitely greater value than Sammon's energy. Martin also offers a greater goal threat than Sammon. I believe that these are the reasons why the Martin - Russell combination is our best one to start games. Where I think that Sammon will be brilliant is coming off the bench against tired defenders. When he plays from the start he is, IMO, an irritant that defenders can easily deal with. He runs, they run - he gets tired, they get tired. His efforts are easy to counter. Bring him into the mix once the defenders are already struggling and rather than running with the defenders, Sammon runs past them. That brings in a whole, and far more useful dimension to his game. Sammon is pretty terrible with his back to goal - but pretty impressive a full gallop running on to a ball. As a sub he'll be able to play far more to his strengths, and will add far more to the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think this might be odd but Sammon is a defensive striker? He helps out in terms of pressurising the opposition. He will score 10 goals a season but won't have 3 or 4 shots on target every game like Martin. I 100% agree with the heading thing Sammon jumps but lets the CB head it behind him with no actual challenge. He should try backing into the CB without jumping right until the very end. Martin obviously isn't blessed with jumping ability but he tries his hardest and on many occasions beats the defender to the header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Cause Sammon cost a **** load of money for us and he can't trap a bag of cement. Maybe... But he's a LOT fasdter than Martin... So y'see that's what everyone says about different strikers doing different roles... And Sammon cost less than Keogh... And Keogh was NOT expensive for a defender... sooooooo that makes Sammon... er... NOT EXPENSIVE*... *In Football terms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inter politics Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Good to see Martin looking sharper but this was only Burton (no offense to them) - hopefully he can take on the better championship defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulpman Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think that the combination of 4 potential forwards, using a 442 approach means we will have Johnny and Chris with Sammon off the bench and Ward either part of the midfield width or upfront when someone is out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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