The main reason we missed out this season!

[uttoxram75]

In nearly every game we have a spell where we look great. We pass simply and quickly, there's options, movement, running off the ball and in these periods we create chances and look the business. The problem is these periods can last 10, 15 or 20 minutes which can be enough to win some games in this division but then also allows the opposition to build their own game when we stop.

 

However once we lose the momentum it can take ages to get it back. I think we lack the mental strength to be brave, keep doing the basics, keep to the passing game we practise all week.

This is what Clough is trying to achieve. Instill the belief in the players to keep doing the basic stuff no matter what. 

 

Man United are probably the best at doing this - no matter how the opposition are playing, United keep working at their game plan, stay calm, don't panic and believe in their ability to eventually create the chances to win the game.

 

Obviously you can't dominate for 90 minutes, there's a very well prepared and organised team facing you trying their best to stop you, but, we need to keep trying to retain our shape and style until it lasts for longer and longer to give us the edge to turn losses into draws and draws into wins..

 

I think this season we have done it a bit better than last. Another 10% improvement on the mental strength and courage to receive and want the ball, even when its going against us, will be enough to push for promotion next season providing we keep our best players and add one or two decent, experienced players.

[WestLondonRam]

Do people not forget Palace, Brighton, Pboro away. These were the games EKR probably went too, in those game were totally outclassed.

Brighton away out classed? I don't think we were. We were playing out of position in the first half and then in the second half round pegs were in round holes and we out classed them. IMO

I agree with Palace as we looked a yard off the pace all game but not Brighton.

[Asanovic]

What have we missed out on? We're mid table with a pretty average team, a pretty average wage bill and a pretty average support. We're doing ok, surely?

 

Improve the squad, shift the expectations. But for now we're at our level (IMO) so I'm reasonably pleased. The fact we even entertained the idea of a late play off push means this has been a decent season given the resources available.

[Guest]

What have we missed out on? We're mid table with a pretty average team, a pretty average wage bill and a pretty average support. We're doing ok, surely?

 

Improve the squad, shift the expectations. But for now we're at our level (IMO) so I'm reasonably pleased. The fact we even entertained the idea of a late play off push means this has been a decent season given the resources available.

 

You havent missed anything, except we were as close to relegation as we were to a play off place.

Come back next year and I would guess it will be the same, and the year after and......

[Ambitious]

I will say this, for the mass majority of games (i've seen anyway) we have controlled the game, and always have more opportunities than our opponents. 

 

Our defence seem to deal a lot better with threats, but, there has been a few games were the other team has just been THAT clinical enough to kill us off. Which is totally opposite last season where we was the clinical side and Steve Davies could have one shot, one goal - and that's all we would need but our defence would be at sixes and sevens running around like mad to make blocks and do anything to get the ball away. 

 

It would be interesting to see how many shots we had against us on target and off target against us last season, to this season... ALBERT!! come on son!

[Mostyn6]

I think we've proven to be good enough regardless.

 

We've NEVER been beaten simply cos the other team is better! We've lost most away games due to negativity, and many points at home due to switching from positive to negative and in some cases, sheer bad luck.

 

In a parallel universe, or if you prefer the cliche "on another day", each bad result could and maybe should've been a good result and we would not be in a false position if we had 12-15 more points.

 

There's not a team in this division we cannot beat, and recent results, whilst missing Hughes, Ward and Brayford have proven that with the right attitude, even with the fringe players involved, we can compete.

 

 

What have we missed out on? We're mid table with a pretty average team, a pretty average wage bill and a pretty average support. We're doing ok, surely?

 

Improve the squad, shift the expectations. But for now we're at our level (IMO) so I'm reasonably pleased. The fact we even entertained the idea of a late play off push means this has been a decent season given the resources available.

 

 

So you don't see ANY under-achievement or failure whatsoever?

[Ambitious]

So you don't see ANY under-achievement or failure whatsoever?

 

For the team we have, I don't think we could expect much more in the performances - we should of been more pragmatic in certain games, and made our chances count, and perhaps played more gritty. 

 

You can't expect much from this side though, IMO. Unreasonable to expect a team with 6 first team midfielders, and 3 of them are under 21 to make the play-offs.

[froggg]

  We need a Dave Mackay

 

 

 

What a crowd

Who else was there....? B)

[Asanovic]

So you don't see ANY under-achievement or failure whatsoever?

 

Nope.

 

Spend £10m. Build a really strong team - ex PL players, seasoned Championship players. Finish mid table. That's a failure.

 

As a club we're failing compared to our past. If you've been around long enough to remember the Premiership years (as I am), then this isn't where we want to be. But if you've only been watching for the last ten years, save for a couple of play off appearances and a 9 month walloping in the PL, then this is decent.

 

Do I want us to be here forever? Course not. But with the resources available to us right now, I don't see this as failure, no.

[Asanovic]

You havent missed anything, except we were as close to relegation as we were to a play off place.

Come back next year and I would guess it will be the same, and the year after and......

 

Yep - generally about right for a mid table team.

 

As I said in the previous post. Invest and we'll succeed. Don't, and we won't. But for what we have I'm not sure how this can be called a failure of a season when you look at Blackburn and Wolves.

[Mostyn6]

Nope.

 

Spend £10m. Build a really strong team - ex PL players, seasoned Championship players. Finish mid table. That's a failure.

 

As a club we're failing compared to our past. If you've been around long enough to remember the Premiership years (as I am), then this isn't where we want to be. But if you've only been watching for the last ten years, save for a couple of play off appearances and a 9 month walloping in the PL, then this is decent.

 

Do I want us to be here forever? Course not. But with the resources available to us right now, I don't see this as failure, no.

 

That's a fair answer, but I struggle to accept the "it's better than we're used to so it's not under-achievement" argument. In the same way investment doesn't guarantee success, 'limited investment' shouldnt prevent success.

 

I just feel we've cost ourselves more points through decisions, mindsets and mistakes than lack of investment has cost us.

 

I've been around long enough and going to watch Derby for about 30years now, so I have experienced the lot. But with that experience, I think I can tell the difference between "poor players" and "player playing poorly". I can excuse poor players, they're at their limits.

[Guest]

Yep - generally about right for a mid table team.

 

As I said in the previous post. Invest and we'll succeed. Don't, and we won't. But for what we have I'm not sure how this can be called a failure of a season when you look at Blackburn and Wolves.

 

Why look at Blackburn and Wolves, unless you support them of course, both teams will probably avoid relegation, and is much like what we did in our first season.

 

I would guess that most teams that have been in this league have at least finished within the top 10 during the past 4 seasons, even on an average wage budget, the chances are that in a league like this, then at some point you should be flirting with the top 6 if you have enough goes at it. 

 

Clough has been given 4 years to build his own squad, had a few million pound signings added in, and the progress in the league table and the cups in minimal (season on season), not many other managers are afforded this luxury.  There is probably only Barnsley, if you exclude newly promoted teams, that havent had a higher league finish than us since Clough took charge, (I am probably wrong).

 

To me the progress is slow to say the least, and no the season is not a failure, but that is because I didnt expect more more given the manager and the players at the club.

[RodleyRam]

I think we've been inconsistent, sometimes great going forwards, at the same time not so great at the back, sometimes defended really well but haven't been clinical up top, sometimes the midfield has dominated and teams haven't been able to get the ball, sometimes we've looked immature and been bossed by more experienced teams.

 

That all suggests that we need a bit extra quality in all departments but not that we're currently awful in all departments and that we lack a bit of experience to help give young players a steer when performances and heads drop.

 

I think with a consistent CB partner for Keogh - Bucko would do if he can stay fit or Baptiste would be a top addition.

 

A new left back - Forsyth seems to be okay, solid if not spectacular but I think he's an improvement on Roberts.

 

I think we'd also benefit from a seasoned pro in the middle - someone like Danny Murphy a couple of years ago, who wouldn't play every game but would be able to manage certain situations.

 

Something different on the wing, we lack genuine pace and a different option - Adomah has been mentioned.

 

And finally a different kind of striker, perhaps a fox in the box who can get goals at the right time to win us matches.

 

That's 5 players in and I expect to lose Tyson, Theo, Deeney and Roberts, none of which we'd really miss in my opinion.

[Asanovic]

Why look at Blackburn and Wolves, unless you support them of course, both teams will probably avoid relegation, and is much like what we did in our first season.

 

I would guess that most teams that have been in this league have at least finished within the top 10 during the past 4 seasons, even on an average wage budget, the chances are that in a league like this, then at some point you should be flirting with the top 6 if you have enough goes at it. 

 

Clough has been given 4 years to build his own squad, had a few million pound signings added in, and the progress in the league table and the cups in minimal (season on season), not many other managers are afforded this luxury.  There is probably only Barnsley, if you exclude newly promoted teams, that havent had a higher league finish than us since Clough took charge, (I am probably wrong).

 

To me the progress is slow to say the least, and no the season is not a failure, but that is because I didnt expect more more given the manager and the players at the club.

 

That last bit in bold - that's exactly my point.

 

Just out of interest, what is Clough's net spend since joining? And net increase/decrease in wage bill? We've been here a million times but without a definite answer, so wondered if someone knew...

 

With regard to Blackburn and Wolves, I'm not comparing us to them. I'm saying they have PL standard players and are below us, in danger. That's a bad season.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Why look at Blackburn and Wolves, unless you support them of course, both teams will probably avoid relegation, and is much like what we did in our first season.

 

I would guess that most teams that have been in this league have at least finished within the top 10 during the past 4 seasons, even on an average wage budget, the chances are that in a league like this, then at some point you should be flirting with the top 6 if you have enough goes at it. 

 

Clough has been given 4 years to build his own squad, had a few million pound signings added in, and the progress in the league table and the cups in minimal (season on season), not many other managers are afforded this luxury.  There is probably only Barnsley, if you exclude newly promoted teams, that havent had a higher league finish than us since Clough took charge, (I am probably wrong).

 

To me the progress is slow to say the least, and no the season is not a failure, but that is because I didnt expect more more given the manager and the players at the club.

Yes but Leeds the 4 years didn't start on the launch pad otherwise I would agree. Realistically we are two years into the build. Having said that we are where we are and even Clough supporters like me are stating to say that next season has got to be it.

[Asanovic]

That's a fair answer, but I struggle to accept the "it's better than we're used to so it's not under-achievement" argument. In the same way investment doesn't guarantee success, 'limited investment' shouldnt prevent success.

 

I just feel we've cost ourselves more points through decisions, mindsets and mistakes than lack of investment has cost us.

 

I've been around long enough and going to watch Derby for about 30years now, so I have experienced the lot. But with that experience, I think I can tell the difference between "poor players" and "player playing poorly". I can excuse poor players, they're at their limits.

 

I'm not even saying we're better than we used to be. I'm saying for what we have we're about right.

 

We don't have poor players and we're not in a poor league position. We've made mistakes undoubtedly this year but when you look at the age of some of the teams that have gone out there, it's not too surprising.

 

Lack of investment is the killer in my opinion. At times we've been crying out for something that other teams have that can't afford/won't pay for.

[Mostyn6]

I've always said whilst delivering my opinion on Nigel Clough, that Barcelona could send us one of their first-team players, one per month over the season, and Nigel would still struggle to get us into the top 6! It's my belief that the main thing holding us back is negativity and lack of positive intent.

 

Because my belief is that very thing, It matters not which players you have, it matters not how much you spend. Quite simply we've been poor against lesser sides with our best players available yet done well against better (than the lesser) sides with our best players missing. This is down to mentality.

[ronnieronalde]

One question.

 

Do you think it was Clough who told Coutts to give the ball away in the last minute Mostyn?

[Mostyn6]

One question.

 

Do you think it was Clough who told Coutts to give the ball away in the last minute Mostyn?

 

No, but do you think it's Coutts fault he had no easy option to pass to as everyone is always behind the ball and crowded close to each other?

 

Do you think Coutts is to blame for none of the other players being able to defend once he'd lost it?

 

Do you think Coutts decides that he should spend more time in his own half with 'backs to the wall' mentality instead of trying to win?

[Mostyn6]

One question.

 

Do you think it was Clough who told Coutts to give the ball away in the last minute Mostyn?

 

Whilst we're there, do you think Coutts is to blame for Clough being totally clueless when it comes to energy conservation and knowing when to make a substitution? Is it Coutts fault that he's worn out?