Albert Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I never said we were one signing from anything.... Certainly never one signing from financial ruin! Anyway, I quite like your epic post.... I actually misread your post. Sorry, I read "only" as "a" for some reason... I don't know... Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Nigel is average with his signings.. There afre far better out there.. There are far worse out there Would I trust Nigel Clough top spend $6mill on the correct players to make us a top 6 side? Perhaps.. Would I trust NC to motivate and form a top 6 side from his signings? Not a chance.. If anyone thinks NC has done 'great' with his signings at this level they should take a look at how well Coppell did at Reading with his signings.. Also George Burley also did better than NC with regards to signings.. But NC has done alright here.. He's moved out alot of players and replaced them with alot of players and we're still midtable.. So I guess that's all great then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Burley was here for one season, but yes, he did quite well in that regard. He did however not come to a club in tatters midway through a season with a squad that could only be described as a disaster compared to the results. He also didn't have to then rebuild a squad while bringing this into line. That said, he still worked on a limited budget, but Nigel didn't work on a limited budget, but ultimately one which require him to remove a huge amount of overpaid deadweight, at least from what we can see from the outside in. Steve Coppell on the other hand hardly had this hands tied. He spent significant amounts of money, at least compared to what we spend now, not taking into account inflation. He spent over a million net in his first season alone according to media figures. Sorry, I confused his signings that season with the manager who came before him. He still spent around £300k net that season and spent significant amounts of money over the following seasons from what I can find. Comparing his situation to ours is completely ridiculous. You also seem to neglect that massive gap between us being strugglers with a massively overpaid squad, to having a much more manageable squad that is actually starting to look a shout for the playoffs. The only season we have truly collapsed under Nigel saw us in the playoff spots as late as November if my memory serves me right, although other circumstances changed that situation greatly. So yeah... Edit: Correction shown after striked section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 What's that got to do with anything I posted, I'm not having a dig at clough, I'm not knocking his transfer record, I'm just saying its not perfect. U may think he has done an amazing job, that's fair enough, but I commented that his bad signings cost us money, if they didn't I retract that statement, I thought I heard we were over budget on wages, once again if people like croft and Tyson aren't contributing to this, I take it back. In answer to your question is it, Dari o'gradi, Ian holloway, dougie freeman, jackett, Chris Powell, Keith hill ? Who said I was asking you? Just a general question to those on this thread. By the way, as you're being touchy, please feel free to list and rate all the purchases of any of those managers. Also, if you are calling Nc's transfer record 'hit and miss' then you are going far beyond saying 'it's not perfect'. Finally, where did I say he is doing an amazing job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Nigel is average with his signings.. There afre far better out there.. There are far worse out there Would I trust Nigel Clough top spend $6mill on the correct players to make us a top 6 side? Perhaps.. Would I trust NC to motivate and form a top 6 side from his signings? Not a chance.. If anyone thinks NC has done 'great' with his signings at this level they should take a look at how well Coppell did at Reading with his signings.. Also George Burley also did better than NC with regards to signings.. But NC has done alright here.. He's moved out alot of players and replaced them with alot of players and we're still midtable.. So I guess that's all great then Hmm we were a below mid table team with double our current wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Who said I was asking you? Just a general question to those on this thread. By the way, as you're being touchy, please feel free to list and rate all the purchases of any of those managers. Also, if you are calling Nc's transfer record 'hit and miss' then you are going far beyond saying 'it's not perfect'. Finally, where did I say he is doing an amazing job? If it was a general question, what was the answer, was I right or wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Nigel is average with his signings.. There afre far better out there.. There are far worse out there Would I trust Nigel Clough top spend $6mill on the correct players to make us a top 6 side? Perhaps.. Would I trust NC to motivate and form a top 6 side from his signings? Not a chance.. If anyone thinks NC has done 'great' with his signings at this level they should take a look at how well Coppell did at Reading with his signings.. Also George Burley also did better than NC with regards to signings.. But NC has done alright here.. He's moved out alot of players and replaced them with alot of players and we're still midtable.. So I guess that's all great then I've read a lot in the last few months about claims that Burley's signings arrived on modest wages,so I decided to look at the 04/05 accounts.The total wage bill (including ENIC) was £9.213m (£9.685m 03/04,£9.375m 05/06).Currently,I reckon non players may account for about £3m and if you assumed similar for 04/05,then players would come in at around £6m.However,staffing levels (non players) would appear to have been higher in 10/11 than in 04/05,so the £6m may need adjusting upward a little,and it should be pointed out that wage inflation (over 6 years) hasn't been factored in. Now I can't prove it,but I'd be very surprised if our current players' wage bill isn't now similar to 04/05 levels. Since 04/05 Sky money has increased dramatically and players' wages have risen as a consequence.Consequently,I very much doubt that Burley could have conducted his 04/05 business within the current constraints,and would therefore venture to suggest that comparisons are unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 For ever Bryson there's a maguire, Brayford a Martin, Ward a Croft.. Wouldnt trust him with five million, he'd probably go out and buy Calvin Zola or someone who has scored a dozen in the spl. Anyone who chases Ben Davies for a year and then later spends 350k on the bloke, only to stick him in the under 21 team is gonna get my criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JW- Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I've read a lot in the last few months about claims that Burley's signings arrived on modest wages,so I decided to look at the 04/05 accounts.The total wage bill (including ENIC) was £9.213m (£9.685m 03/04,£9.375m 05/06).Currently,I reckon non players may account for about £3m and if you assumed similar for 04/05,then players would come in at around £6m.However,staffing levels (non players) would appear to have been higher in 10/11 than in 04/05,so the £6m may need adjusting upward a little,and it should be pointed out that wage inflation (over 6 years) hasn't been factored in. Now I can't prove it,but I'd be very surprised if our current players' wage bill isn't now similar to 04/05 levels. Since 04/05 Sky money has increased dramatically and players' wages have risen as a consequence.Consequently,I very much doubt that Burley could have conducted his 04/05 business within the current constraints,and would therefore venture to suggest that comparisons are unfair. Does burleys wage bill include any high earners left from previous managers ramblur? Also would the average wage not have been higher in the championship during the previous regime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 But how much did we get back for them players? Money is only wasted when we sign someone and then have to pay them off to leave a la Claude Davis! About a tenner. Cause we didn't waste money on maguire, 400,000 or there abouts and then sold for a mere 100k. That's 300,000 down the pan already. And I haven't even mentioned Porter, Martin and Moxey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 For ever Bryson there's a maguire, Brayford a Martin, Ward a Croft.. Wouldnt trust him with five million, he'd probably go out and buy Calvin Zola. Anyone who chases Ben Davies for a year and then later spends 350k on the bloke, only to stick him in the under 21 team is gonna get my criticism. Really, name them. Here are our good signings, find their poor match: Jake Buxton Shaun Barker John Brayford Gareth Roberts Jamie Ward Theo Robinson Jason Shackell Frank Fielding Craig Bryson Michael Jacobs Paul Coutts Richard Keogh Connor Sammon Go ahead, I'm waiting... Also, here are our decent to neutral signings, non of whom could be considered "bad": Chris Porter - Injury woes Dean Moxey - Was alright, left on a tidy profit apparently Russell Anderson - Came on a free, did a job as backup and then some James Bailey - Good player, certainly did his job, we have better players in midfield now sadly, could still do a job though Tomasz Cywka - Had a decent first half of a first season, dropped off and following the signing of better players fell out of favour, still not a bad signing Ben Davies - Has done a job and was an assist machine early last season Adam Legzdins - Very solid second choice, boarding on first choice James O'Connor - Not a month ago people were singing his praises as though it were a Christmas carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 For ever Bryson there's a maguire, Brayford a Martin, Ward a Croft.. Wouldnt trust him with five million, he'd probably go out and buy Calvin Zola or someone who has scored a dozen in the spl. Anyone who chases Ben Davies for a year and then later spends 350k on the bloke, only to stick him in the under 21 team is gonna get my criticism. Is that the same Ben Davies who has made 51 appearances for The Rams?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AucklandRam Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think his buying record is decent, nothing special. He's not got enough money to bring in anybody spectacular His selling record is much better, only Commons, Green and Davies have gone on to better or similar things and he tried keeping both of them within the budget given. Shackell has been replaced, I've not seen Keogh play enough to comment. Best signings Bryson Ward Theo Barker Worst Porter Maguire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 About a tenner. Cause we didn't waste money on maguire, 400,000 or there abouts and then sold for a mere 100k. That's 300,000 down the pan already. And I haven't even mentioned Porter, Martin and Moxey. Where are you getting your figures from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Does burleys wage bill include any high earners left from previous managers ramblur? Also would the average wage not have been higher in the championship during the previous regime? Previous regime? The average wage in the Championship would have been considerably lower 8 years ago. Taking into account inflation as well, £6 mil in 2004-05 would have been around £7+ mil today. Again, he didn't have the Premiership and Jewell mess to sort out, nor did he come in midseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think his buying record is decent, nothing special. He's not got enough money to bring in anybody spectacular His selling record is much better, only Commons, Green and Davies have gone on to better or similar things and he tried keeping both of them within the budget given. Shackell has been replaced, I've not seen Keogh play enough to comment. Best signings Bryson Ward Theo Barker Worst Porter Maguire Green and Davies have gone onto better things? Also, is this the same Commons who's fallen out of favour at Celtic since an initial good run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Really, name them. Here are our good signings, find their poor match: Jake Buxton Shaun Barker John Brayford Gareth Roberts Jamie Ward Theo Robinson Jason Shackell Frank Fielding Craig Bryson Michael Jacobs Paul Coutts Richard Keogh Connor Sammon Go ahead, I'm waiting... Also, here are our decent to neutral signings, non of whom could be considered "bad": Chris Porter - Injury woes Dean Moxey - Was alright, left on a tidy profit apparently Russell Anderson - Came on a free, did a job as backup and then some James Bailey - Good player, certainly did his job, we have better players in midfield now sadly, could still do a job though Tomasz Cywka - Had a decent first half of a first season, dropped off and following the signing of better players fell out of favour, still not a bad signing Ben Davies - Has done a job and was an assist machine early last season Adam Legzdins - Very solid second choice, boarding on first choice James O'Connor - Not a month ago people were singing his praises as though it were a Christmas carol I dont think Sammon is a good signing for over a million, i expect to be proved right in the future. I'd say Legzdins is a good signing as well, how much did we get him for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Does burleys wage bill include any high earners left from previous managers ramblur? Also would the average wage not have been higher in the championship during the previous regime? Afraid my memory doesn't stretch enough to be able to answer your first point,Leeds Ram (perhaps someone can help us out?).However,I very much doubt that Clough would be able to bring in the likes of Raziak and Idiakez at anything like the wages they would have been on in 04/05,which is the fundamental point.European players abound everywhere you look (generally!) nowadays and you know what happens when demand sets in. I assume your last point relates to LOG 06/07? If you like I can look up the figure (from memory total wages were c£15m),but I'm afraid it's a little pointless because we don't know the extent to which promotion bonuses skewed the figure (a point I put to Swiss Rambler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AucklandRam Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Green and Davies have gone onto better things? Also, is this the same Commons who's fallen out of favour at Celtic since an initial good run? Or similar things. Commons has played against Barca twice, and scored the winning goal that has taken Celtic the last 16 of the CL. Better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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