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Views on NC's signings as DCFC manager

jimbobram

By jimbobram
in Derby County Forum

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Albert

Albert

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The best CB in a long time? He never reached the heights of Leacock or Moore.. And he won POTY in a poor team for being an awesome guy.. He is an awesome guy, just an average footballer..

He is average.. He's never finished in the top 10, he's never been wanted by a top 10 NPC side, and he's been involved with teams which has had average/poor goals conceded tallies..

There is no proof to suggest he's anything but an average NPC defender other than the biased opinions of DCFC fans..

Again, Leacock was an average defender at best who looked good next to the experience Moore. Leacock was well and truly found out in the Premier League and has since ended up where? Failing at Leyton Orient, not at Notts. County. Fantastic career there, especially for someone younger than Barker. But we've been over Leaock.

I've also been over Moore, and I think he and Leacock were done a lot of favours by how the team set up that season.

But, let's break this down a bit. So, let's start with "average/poor" goals conceded tallies. Firstly, one centrehalf doesn't change the whole tally. It has to do with many factors, including how the team is set up, and the players in front of them. Keeper a clean sheet is a lot easier with Seth in front of you than an ageing Robbie Savage. But let's just get the numbers out there so people can judge for themselves:

Derby County 2008-09, season before Barker : 67 goals against (20th overall)

Derby County 2009-10, Barker's first season: 63 goals against (14th overall)

Not a huge difference. We're looking better now though. Again though, one centrehalf cannot be given credit or blamed for the defensive record alone, and Barker was a standout in a poor defence.

Also, what do you mean "never wanted by a top 10" Championship side? How do you know this? We signed him from Blackpool (finished 6th and promoted) and they didn't exactly release him on a free now did they. Not to mention that we apparently beat Forest (finished 3rd) to his signature. We also don't know what enquires are made behind the scenes either, how do you know that nobody ever made an approach?

I kind of agree with Bris that Barker isnt as good as everyone likes to make out. He went through a spell a couple of seasons ago where he was atrocious, one of the games was away at Leicester where we lost 2-0 and he tried skinning about 3 players before getting robbed and them breaking away to score. Around that time he had a run of games where he regularly cost us goals.

But overall, he's good for where we are, a mid table side, although with the extent of his injury and his increasing years, i'll be surprsied if he's ever as good as he was.

The spell you speak of was when he was soldiering on against an injury that ultimately ruled him out well into the following season. He did so in order to help keep us up, and put bluntly, I can forgive a bad spell when playing on through a knee injury.

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Albert

Albert

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1/k tends to the largest real number as k tends to 0. (If you divide by a number less than 1 the result is bigger than you started.)

It sure does...

...hahaha... it was meant to be approaching infinite. The logic was that simply saying that you can make a number as small as you wish was a bit pointless, so I mixed it up a bit. Too bad for me I apparently wrote a mix of the two. A nice case of being mistake blind I guess.

...oh dear... that's just silly...

...still in all seriousness, even if I did write infinite instead of zero initially it would still be a lousy way of defining it in a proper context.

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Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

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Again, Leacock was an average defender at best who looked good next to the experience Moore. Leacock was well and truly found out in the Premier League and has since ended up where? Failing at Leyton Orient, not at Notts. County. Fantastic career there, especially for someone younger than Barker. But we've been over Leaock.

I've also been over Moore, and I think he and Leacock were done a lot of favours by how the team set up that season.

But, let's break this down a bit. So, let's start with "average/poor" goals conceded tallies. Firstly, one centrehalf doesn't change the whole tally. It has to do with many factors, including how the team is set up, and the players in front of them. Keeper a clean sheet is a lot easier with Seth in front of you than an ageing Robbie Savage. But let's just get the numbers out there so people can judge for themselves:

Derby County 2008-09, season before Barker : 67 goals against (20th overall)

Derby County 2009-10, Barker's first season: 63 goals against (14th overall)

Not a huge difference. We're looking better now though. Again though, one centrehalf cannot be given credit or blamed for the defensive record alone, and Barker was a standout in a poor defence.

Also, what do you mean "never wanted by a top 10" Championship side? How do you know this? We signed him from Blackpool (finished 6th and promoted) and they didn't exactly release him on a free now did they. Not to mention that we apparently beat Forest (finished 3rd) to his signature. We also don't know what enquires are made behind the scenes either, how do you know that nobody ever made an approach?

Firstly.. The season we signed him from Blackpool they finished around 17th.. And then they went on to finish 6th the season he had left.. Nottm Forest wanted him when they finished 19th or 20th, and his first season at us is when Forest made the playoffs..

Leacock maybe an average defender.. But in his career, along with Moore, he's achieved far more than Shaun Barker.. At least Leacock was part of a defence that conceded less than 55 goals over a season, part of a defence that finished in the top 10, part of a defence that got promoted and tasted PL football..

We signed a $1mill defender and made him one of our highest earners and his overall achievement in football is finishing 14th in the NPC.. Average as it comes..

And no top 10 NPC team made an approach or tried to sign him because you can find far better value for $1mill than an average NPC defender..

I had never seen so many embarrassing posts as a year or so ago when people rated Barker as one of the best CBs in the league and that he'd get in any team.. What a load of old tosh..

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sage

sage

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Firstly.. The season we signed him from Blackpool they finished around 17th.. And then they went on to finish 6th the season he had left.. Nottm Forest wanted him when they finished 19th or 20th, and his first season at us is when Forest made the playoffs..

Leacock maybe an average defender.. But in his career, along with Moore, he's achieved far more than Shaun Barker.. At least Leacock was part of a defence that conceded less than 55 goals over a season, part of a defence that finished in the top 10, part of a defence that got promoted and tasted PL football..

We signed a $1mill defender and made him one of our highest earners and his overall achievement in football is finishing 14th in the NPC.. Average as it comes..

And no top 10 NPC team made an approach or tried to sign him because you can find far better value for $1mill than an average NPC defender..

I had never seen so many embarrassing posts as a year or so ago when people rated Barker as one of the best CBs in the league and that he'd get in any team.. What a load of old tosh..

Your bile for Barker is unremitting. Did he furtle your missus or something?

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ramblur

ramblur

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Your bile for Barker is unremitting. Did he furtle your missus or something?

Ah,sounds like the start of a journey that might lead to the real one over Kay.

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Alph

Alph

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Ha, I missed this post.

I don't recall ever saying he didn't have bad signings, just they were few and far between, and I still maintain that there's only been 4 that really justify anything below "average" all things considered, which over 8 transfer windows is a damn fine effort.

I guess I was getting a bit frustrated seeing the same thing, which I had felt I responded to repeatedly by that point, posted over and over again. I don't know, this was the post I'm fairly sure:

There was just something about this post that really ticked me off, and not to be a cock about it, but still does. I guess the key point was that you mixed him needing to get rid of overpaid players with him "having a large turnover", which clearly (and demonstrably) isn't the case. You also seemed to contradict yourself a few times, but I think that was just me, already a annoyed at another poster, just looking for something in your post.

To be honest, I don't think he's some transfer wizard, rather he's done a remarkable job in a tight situation and whilst some managers have had some truly special players from nothing, Nigel has done well consistently, without having that star from the rough. As I have said a few times, of his signings, only Maguire, Croft, Martin and Hendrie have been truly poor, others that are usually called "poor" are ones who have had their times ruined by injuries that they got at the club (and generally without a history of it) or young players who came in for low wages and the were given a go. I don't think Nigel is some wizard, rather he knows a good footballer when he sees one, and rarely wastes money, without really picking that true diamond out of the pile of soot. He might have that in him, maybe, but as things stand his best signings are at best top Championship, maybe lower Premier League level, it's not like he's brought someone in for peanuts who Premier League teams are ripping the door off the hinges for.

I also don't see him as a great tactician or man manager either, I don't see him as a bad one, but I don't see him as a great one. There are better out there, but ultimately he seems loyal to the club, happy to build, and build from the ground up, patience that is rare in the sport these days. This is why I like Nigel, not being I see him as some saviour coming in to drag us out of the division kicking and screaming, but because I see him as that stable head that will over the course of years rebuild that base that has been well and truly destroyed without risking it in the process. It's starting to happen slowly, but it is a slow process. This all fits in with the idea that he has few poor signings, but a lot of decent to good ones, with no truly remarkable ones (at least yet). That's the point, it's not about him being some magician on the market, it's about him not blowing the budget like those who came before him, and in truth, when he's had the chance, he's done well. That is, when he's had the chance to spend bigger money on players, it's hit the target, at least so far.

I think this is where the main breakdown in communication happens between me and most posters, the fact that I'm sometimes a bit too content with being patient, when most want success, and they want it now. I can understand that, but ultimately I'd rather see us go up as a side that has been there or there abouts for a while, rather than getting back up and coming down in financial ruin with £5 and 'iClaude Davis 2.0' in the squad. Due to this I tend to be a bit lenient on players who others would slam for being "mediocre" for not being the sort of player that would star in the top teams in this division, but that's just me.

Hope that clears some things up.

See above.

Yeah I understand how things can get confused. I'm not sure how my post came across but I really wasn't attacking Nigel.

I love the bloke because he's one of us. And he has bought more good players than bad. He's bought a lot of average players (meaning they are of similar ability to players they are replacing). I'd say this is down to restraints seeing as he has often mentioned how little money there is. But there it is, imo, ordinary. He isn't magical

I want him as our manager. I want stability. I get frustrated when old problems go on (away style or late goals(sorted at last!)). I get frustrated. But really I'm happy with a large percentage of his work.

Problem with a forum is that posts aren't always read the way they are written. I once jumped on Morcambe because I was moaning about an away performance and he said "are you there?"....... Well it turns out he actually was asking "are you there?" And not "are you even there you moaning cnut?" as I imagined.

Bottom line, I think Nigel is a capable manager. Our manager. With time on his side and his heart truly on the line I have faith that he'll get it all good in the end. I don't even bother thinking about alternatives because I have faith. Like you said, it depends on patience. Some have given up and decided he's had long enough to learn his shortcomings.

I don't think he's come up short in transfers. It's Derby performing like they're on a leash away from home that niggles me. It's been years!! Transfers dealings have been good enough.

If we have any disagreement then it's a minor one on the subject of a few players. Overall we'd both say he's come down on the good side.

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Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

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We didn't get chance to see Barker at his best for long. But I'll tell you something Bris Vegas, when fit he was a better defender than Dean Leacock

Dean Leacocks best was better than Barkers best.. The facts speak for themselves.. One made the PL, the other made 14th in the NPC

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sage

sage

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Further weakness.. Instead of the snidy comments why don't you try telling me how Barker isn't an average NPC player?

Then I'll just laugh at you..

Why do I have to prove anything. You accused me of saying something, I asked for proof and you can't give it to me. Same old Bris. Get caught out and blame others.

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