PistoldPete

Well how about this , from the Wendies case? EFL's own Counsel saying that EFL didn't want to impose any sanction on Derby for 2019-20 because it wouldnt change the composition of the Championship in that year, ie it wouldn't have relegated us  but it would have relegated Wendies in 2019-20 so they wanted penalty points deduction for us in 2020-1 and for Wedensday they wanted it in 2019-20 in order to relegate them?
 
I mean this sort of thing just shows that the EFL is trying it on, trying  to cause maximum damage it can.. both to us and to Wednesday.
 
It is a funadamental problem , and its driven by the fact that the EFL is not an indpendent regulator, but is representing the interests of rival clubs. .

"Although proceedings of this
nature are private, the Club and Derby County agreed to share information about the
proceedings brought against each other. We say nothing about the appropriateness of
such an arrangement, but the result is that it has become clear from an interchange
between the Chair of the Commission in the Derby County case and Leading Counsel for
the EFL (Mr Mark Phillips QC) that, if the charge against Derby County is established, the
EFL will not be inviting the Disciplinary Commission to impose any points deduction in the
present, extended season. This, according to Mr Phillips, is on the basis that “looking at
the position of Derby in the League at the moment, anything that this Commission does is
unlikely to affect the composition of the Championship next year.” (It is, incidentally, to be
noted that any points deduction that might be imposed on Derby County if the charge is
established would also not have had any impact on that club in terms of relegation if it had
been imposed in the 2018-2019 season.)
27. Mr De Marco, not unnaturally, draws attention to what he submits is the inconsistency
between the position taken by the EFL in that case and the position taken in this case,
namely, that two clubs facing very similar allegations for a breach of the P&S Rules for
the same period should be treated differently because in one case the outcome could
have no impact on the “composition of the Championship next year”.

Yes I think you are right . If Efl had docked us points in 2020/1 then we would have gone down and Wycombe stayed up . But that’s Efl fault not ours. 
 
anything we did wrong ie overspending was more historic and nothing to do with Wycombe.
 

My biggest concern by far is that no buyer is found because the debts are unmanageable . The Efl then take the action they did with Bury and banish us from the League.
vut really there is no reason why the club cannot retain its Efl membership even in such a nightmare scenario. It would be down to the Efl.. they made the wrong call with Bury and I am fearful they could do the same to us.
So the question of why are we in such a financial mess .., is it COVID or is it self inflicted .. and if self inflicted it’s the owners fault not the fans so why should they suffer? The COVID question becomes pretty crucial .. it may not be just about the 12 point deduction.

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

I think you are being disingenuous here about the EFL. They said they regretted . were disappointed etc about our punishment.. they had been pushing for a penalty points deduction and pushing for that deduction to be be applied retrospectively to the season gone... which would have relegated us, of course as we only dodged relegation by one point.
Yet previously, they wanted to apply the points deduction not retrospectively to us for the 2019-20 season as that would have had no effect on our season. But they did want to apply the points deduction retrospectively to 2019-20 for Sheffield Wednesday as that would have relegated then in that season. Fortunately for Wendies, the LAP was having none of that .. EFL arbitraging to get maximum penalty it possibly can..  stance from EFL rightly called out by the LAP as disgraceful. So Wendies avoided a retrospective punishment.. although it was  temporary stay of execution of course, they were relegated in 2020/1 anyway.
It is not reasonable in anyway for EFL to be expressing sentiments, spinning lines to the media and briefing them against the Rams... and worse.. leaking selectively to the press stories that ultimately prove to be untrue.
Nor should they be seeking to give maximum punishments they can get away with , especially to clubs in distress, and especially when any fault lies with the owners (in fact now former owners) , not with the club itself. 
 
 
 

This isn’t the first time that EFL expresses  its “disappointment”. .. why should a football body be disappointed in the outcome of an independent process .. why doesn’t the EFL itself show itself to be independent?
 
That is why it is in its dying days as a regulator . After the BUry debacle , Parliament heavily criticised EFL for its practices. It just seems the EFL represents the interests of rival clubs who all join in and give other clubs a kicking. Especially unattractive when you are kicking a club when it is down. It’s not independent at all, and is just self destructive.
I cannot recall anything wrong in Derby ‘s own media statements .. except them saying the amortisation thing was no big deal well plainly it is if it means we fail FFP and get penalty points deductions.
 
 
 
 

If you compare other regulators , I don’t know of any comparable behaviour. 
 
if the legal advice is your case against Derby is weak, why would you express your disappointment about that? 
 
Derby is a member of the Efl , indeed a founder member . They shouldn’t be so obviously trying to do us down… in fact they shouldn’t be trying to do us down at all.

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

I think you have to put together a series of EFL statements to get to the truth. They wanted a tougher penalty . They wanted a points deduction . they wanted it backdated it to last season. They issued an alternative fixture list, in case they appealed successfully ,, but legal advice was they  had no chance, much to their disappointment.
 
when the boot was on the other foot they didn’t want a retrospective  points deduction for us in 2019 /20 but did for wendies as that would have relegated them. 
 
I don’t see how anyone can say it isn’t pretty clear that EFL were trying  to get us relegated , just as they were wendies.

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

I think you are right except I don’t even agree that we have spent more unwisely than other teams. 
 
boro buying asomalonga for £15 million and then letting him go for nothing is hardly the kind of sensible spending we should be taking lessons from Mr Gibson about.
 
 

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

I used to visit one of your boards "Back Henry Street" the distaine for the Oystons especialy K Oyston and his Son, Who at the drop of a hat would send a Solicitors letter for "slander" the Solicitor being someone who wasn't actually a Solicitor, There was open warfare against the Oystons and rightly so even to get one of your games abandoned when tennis balls thrown and then fans storming the pitch,,,one in a wheelchair.
As for our missgivings...you need to fact check your post, We were found guilty of a minor offence where a £100,000 fine was imposed, We're still waiting for the ELF who by the looks are on that Boat to China and waiting for imo us to climb the table only for them to hit us with another points penalty.
Just to remind you of the EFLs culpability...they let the Oystons milk Blackpool FC out of millions of £s while they stood and let you burn, Let Bury be sold for £1 to a sharleton, Closed their eyes to what happened to Wigan with a fictitious sale, Fed Macclesfield to the Lions, Capitulated to Anderson who was Boltons major shareholder when he was talking about liquidating them.
Sympathy we're not looking for, That seige mentality is now set in stone by the majority who pay or those who watch from afar.
 

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

I think you are being disingenuous here about the EFL. They said they regretted . were disappointed etc about our punishment.. they had been pushing for a penalty points deduction and pushing for that deduction to be be applied retrospectively to the season gone... which would have relegated us, of course as we only dodged relegation by one point.
Yet previously, they wanted to apply the points deduction not retrospectively to us for the 2019-20 season as that would have had no effect on our season. But they did want to apply the points deduction retrospectively to 2019-20 for Sheffield Wednesday as that would have relegated then in that season. Fortunately for Wendies, the LAP was having none of that .. EFL arbitraging to get maximum penalty it possibly can..  stance from EFL rightly called out by the LAP as disgraceful. So Wendies avoided a retrospective punishment.. although it was  temporary stay of execution of course, they were relegated in 2020/1 anyway.
It is not reasonable in anyway for EFL to be expressing sentiments, spinning lines to the media and briefing them against the Rams... and worse.. leaking selectively to the press stories that ultimately prove to be untrue.
Nor should they be seeking to give maximum punishments they can get away with , especially to clubs in distress, and especially when any fault lies with the owners (in fact now former owners) , not with the club itself. 
 
 
 

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

If you compare other regulators , I don’t know of any comparable behaviour. 
 
if the legal advice is your case against Derby is weak, why would you express your disappointment about that? 
 
Derby is a member of the Efl , indeed a founder member . They shouldn’t be so obviously trying to do us down… in fact they shouldn’t be trying to do us down at all.

As to why the Efl are picking on Derby , the simple answer is they aren’t. 
 
they made a similar mess of Bury .. the best that can be said about that is that it was a swift end for Bury rather than a death by a thousand cuts .
 
whatever your views on Mel Morris , ( which I don’t share by the way) the first objection is why should the club suffer for the wrongdoing of the owner? Precisely the issue that As you say true football fans would understand regardless of who they support… which is why Derby fans sympathised with you over oyston.
 
but despite my first statement I think Derby fans feel aggrieved that the club are wrongly accused of things that were perfectly fine ( eg stadium sale) , things like amortisation are minor things at worst that Efl wanted points deduction .. and relegation .., for yet the independent panel thought only a fine was appropriate . 
 
so at every turn Efl seem to want to beat us up and max out on punishments. 
 
all for what? A professional disagreement between accountants over amortisation policy, and a disagreement between another set of accountants over what has caused our latest financial problems? Is it COVID or our historic overspending? 
 
why should the club , and the fans be punished for any of this?

I can see how it might look to an outsider, but I'm simply applying logic to the catalogue of things that the EFL have said and done since the whole saga started with Gibson announcing he was intending to sue Derby and the EFL, 2 days before the 2019 play-off final. I can't blame either of them for the decision to start the game with Mason Bennett instead of an in-form Jack Marriott (thanks Frankie!), but since that day it's been clear that they want to destroy Derby, by hook or by crook, because it suits their agenda to a T. It's worth reminding all visitors to this forum that no EFL (or other) rules were broken in respect of the stadium sale or the method of player amortisation adopted. The EFL finally nailed us on a technicality, for which the punishment will far exceed the 'breach'. It's worth remembering that, while clubs like DCFC and SWFC are regarded as 'cheats' who "deserve everything they get", successful cheats happily ply their trade in the Premier League, raking in hundreds of millions of pounds, and face no sanction in the event of their relegation back to the EFL, not even the cancellation of their Parachute Payments!! It's perverse.
I note your general good wishes and don't want it to sound like I'm berating you, but there really is more to this than the EFL simply "upholding the rules" - it's highly political and it will have implications for other clubs whose fans are currently sticking the boot into DCFC at every opportunity, though they don't realise it yet.
 

If you compare other regulators , I don’t know of any comparable behaviour. 
 
if the legal advice is your case against Derby is weak, why would you express your disappointment about that? 
 
Derby is a member of the Efl , indeed a founder member . They shouldn’t be so obviously trying to do us down… in fact they shouldn’t be trying to do us down at all.

I think you are being disingenuous here about the EFL. They said they regretted . were disappointed etc about our punishment.. they had been pushing for a penalty points deduction and pushing for that deduction to be be applied retrospectively to the season gone... which would have relegated us, of course as we only dodged relegation by one point.
Yet previously, they wanted to apply the points deduction not retrospectively to us for the 2019-20 season as that would have had no effect on our season. But they did want to apply the points deduction retrospectively to 2019-20 for Sheffield Wednesday as that would have relegated then in that season. Fortunately for Wendies, the LAP was having none of that .. EFL arbitraging to get maximum penalty it possibly can..  stance from EFL rightly called out by the LAP as disgraceful. So Wendies avoided a retrospective punishment.. although it was  temporary stay of execution of course, they were relegated in 2020/1 anyway.
It is not reasonable in anyway for EFL to be expressing sentiments, spinning lines to the media and briefing them against the Rams... and worse.. leaking selectively to the press stories that ultimately prove to be untrue.
Nor should they be seeking to give maximum punishments they can get away with , especially to clubs in distress, and especially when any fault lies with the owners (in fact now former owners) , not with the club itself. 
 
 
 

I think you are being disingenuous here about the EFL. They said they regretted . were disappointed etc about our punishment.. they had been pushing for a penalty points deduction and pushing for that deduction to be be applied retrospectively to the season gone... which would have relegated us, of course as we only dodged relegation by one point.
Yet previously, they wanted to apply the points deduction not retrospectively to us for the 2019-20 season as that would have had no effect on our season. But they did want to apply the points deduction retrospectively to 2019-20 for Sheffield Wednesday as that would have relegated then in that season. Fortunately for Wendies, the LAP was having none of that .. EFL arbitraging to get maximum penalty it possibly can..  stance from EFL rightly called out by the LAP as disgraceful. So Wendies avoided a retrospective punishment.. although it was  temporary stay of execution of course, they were relegated in 2020/1 anyway.
It is not reasonable in anyway for EFL to be expressing sentiments, spinning lines to the media and briefing them against the Rams... and worse.. leaking selectively to the press stories that ultimately prove to be untrue.
Nor should they be seeking to give maximum punishments they can get away with , especially to clubs in distress, and especially when any fault lies with the owners (in fact now former owners) , not with the club itself. 
 
 
 

Tax goes to The Government ... who actually are far better at wasting the money than Derby ever could be. 

I think you are being disingenuous here about the EFL. They said they regretted . were disappointed etc about our punishment.. they had been pushing for a penalty points deduction and pushing for that deduction to be be applied retrospectively to the season gone... which would have relegated us, of course as we only dodged relegation by one point.
Yet previously, they wanted to apply the points deduction not retrospectively to us for the 2019-20 season as that would have had no effect on our season. But they did want to apply the points deduction retrospectively to 2019-20 for Sheffield Wednesday as that would have relegated then in that season. Fortunately for Wendies, the LAP was having none of that .. EFL arbitraging to get maximum penalty it possibly can..  stance from EFL rightly called out by the LAP as disgraceful. So Wendies avoided a retrospective punishment.. although it was  temporary stay of execution of course, they were relegated in 2020/1 anyway.
It is not reasonable in anyway for EFL to be expressing sentiments, spinning lines to the media and briefing them against the Rams... and worse.. leaking selectively to the press stories that ultimately prove to be untrue.
Nor should they be seeking to give maximum punishments they can get away with , especially to clubs in distress, and especially when any fault lies with the owners (in fact now former owners) , not with the club itself.