GboroRam

Going back to Palestine for a minute. 
I was thinking about the human shield, about who would kill an innocent civilian. 
On the one hand you've got people who believe there are no innocent people being killed. They're either terrorists, apologists for terrorists, guilty by association with terrorists or responsible for the terrorist leaders. Whatever justification they have, they've convinced themselves that they don't count as innocent. Guilt is unequivocal, and viewing them as "human animals" means they can be treated with impunity. They don't count as deserving life. 
On the other hand, there's a group who have weighed up the equation, which holds more value - the life of an unknown number of innocent palestinians, vs the death of a much smaller number of Hamas supporters - and have decided the deaths hold greater value than the lives. Now that speaks to me of their value of those innocent lives. 

The Economist has said that Netenyahu has  for years tolerated Hamas because it allows him to refuse peace talks. That’s credible enough and has come from several sources. 
 
But your suggestion that there was a cunning plan to allow Hamas to inflict such horror on 7/10 is not credible.  Not least because that would have required senior IDF officers to have participated in the conspiracy. No way 

I think that paragraph neatly sums up how people get sucked into conspiracy theories.
You are believing in something utterly mindblowing and think there is actual evidence that decidedly points to it! You can't mix up beliefs and evidence.
Why not start from something far less outlandish. Israeli took their eye off the ball from a security perspective because they were busy dealing with loads of internal strife caused by a useless, populist government. Populists cannot govern, they can only campaign. Simple slogans do not solve complex problems.
They also stupidly allowed Hamas to become stronger, possibly to keep moderate Palestinians out of power. 
These conditions clearly were suitable to allow Hamas to carry out their deadly attacks.
The issue now is the disaster unfolding in Gaza. Conspiracy theories are probably designed to make people look elsewhere!

My beliefs are what? 
That if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, if they laid down all weapons that  1)This wouldn't halt Israeli expansion in West Bank. 2) That another resistance would rise in their place because of the condition of Palestinian people
That if Israel respected international law, respected boundaries. Worked with Palestinians. Halted the settlements. Actually stopped and punished settler violence. If they gave Palestinians a reason to reject Hamas then we would find a route towards peace. When the need for a resistance would fade. And Israel being a powerful military nation has the ability to fight Hamas/defend themselves AND work with Palestinians (probably Fatah to create a state) 
It wouldn't be a smooth ride. But it would be the right road. 
That is my belief. Do you have problem with that? 
The final sentence is just unnecessarily rude. 🤣
 

Try searching antisemitism awareness week. Looks like lots of organisations have tried to create it. 
Why is Islamophobia month a thing and antisemitism awareness month isn't? Is it maybe because we are aware (well, I thought we were aware, but apparently arguing not to kill civilians is antisemitic, so perhaps I'm wrong) what antisemitism looks like, but Islamophobia is ignored, condoned and even seen as acceptable. 
The real answer is because someone has organised one and it's captured enough attention to get traction, the other for some reason hasn't. 
OK, I've answered your question that wasn't worthy of a response. Now you answer why nowhere else other than Gaza is shooting a human shield acceptable? It's morally repugnant, that's why. 
I await your lovely laughing emoji, because dead civilians is such a hoot. 

Your question is not worthy of a reply. 

(Deleted. No point going down this route. Sorry)
 

Try searching antisemitism awareness week. Looks like lots of organisations have tried to create it. 
Why is Islamophobia month a thing and antisemitism awareness month isn't? Is it maybe because we are aware (well, I thought we were aware, but apparently arguing not to kill civilians is antisemitic, so perhaps I'm wrong) what antisemitism looks like, but Islamophobia is ignored, condoned and even seen as acceptable. 
The real answer is because someone has organised one and it's captured enough attention to get traction, the other for some reason hasn't. 
OK, I've answered your question that wasn't worthy of a response. Now you answer why nowhere else other than Gaza is shooting a human shield acceptable? It's morally repugnant, that's why. 
I await your lovely laughing emoji, because dead civilians is such a hoot. 

@cstandmate, honestly I'm done after the disputed land comment. There's no where to go from this point. 
The gaslighting antisemite accusations. Whatever. I can be antisemitic if you want me to be. Whatever you like. Your problem with Islamophobia month is your problem. Not mine. Write a letter, go on a protest. I'm not bothered at all. They can have Antisemitism month 12 times per year for me. I don't care. Black history month? I don't care. White Supremacy month? I don't care unless I get some vouchers for my white hood collection. 
There's just no debate to be had when it gets to this point. It's like the arguments in Speakers Corner between a Zionist and a Muslim who rejects all of Israel. No point. I don't know why they bother. 

That doesn't answer my question. Why is this barbaric response towards innocent people allowed? 
Name me any film where the cop executes the hostage, and justifies it as acceptable collateral damage? Why do you think there aren't any (or if there are any, why so few?) 

That doesn't answer my question. Why is this barbaric response towards innocent people allowed? 
Name me any film where the cop executes the hostage, and justifies it as acceptable collateral damage? Why do you think there aren't any (or if there are any, why so few?) 

clearly if you do not defend it or, worse, criticise it you stand the risk of being tarred as an antisemite.  it feels as though there is an agenda to maintain the polarisation at all costs.  Nothing good will come of that apart for the money men supplying arms

Paul Warne, your football is a hit, clearly heard from the crowd. 

Paul Warne, your football is a hit, clearly heard from the crowd. 

Paul Warne, your football is a hit, clearly heard from the crowd. 

From the one angle shown on ITV, I think he probably was, just.

Found the Crewe fan.

Yeah, bad things happen during wars. I think that's established and I don't doubt Hamas are every bit as naughty as the Israelis, but the point I was really making was how easily duped some folk are. What's the most horrific image you could think of? Beheaded babies. OK, let's go with that. Really?
It's hard to fathom why folk are so quick to believe what is essentially wartime propaganda from the IDF. Perhaps they believe the propaganda, not because they lack the wit to examine the information on their feeds, but because they lack the will.
In terms of civilian casualties and child casualties specifically, this conflict already massively outstrips the Russian - Ukraine war, yet look at the vastly different reactions elicited from Western leaders and media outlets. It's marked to say the least and there's little chatter anymore concerning proportionate responses. Make of that what you will.

I did think that too. I knew what he meant but it's important to distinguish. Many Jews are horrified because they're human and too familiar ethnic cleansing. 
I think a genuine mistake from Bob. Suella Braverman however makes no such distinction between Palestinians/pro-Palestinians and terrorists. She's vile and starting to make Liz Truss comments in the Ukraine conflict seem quite calm and reasonable. 

No, not from me of course. 

...That's just a bit of gossip.

The Arthur Negus cup. 

There's probably a long uncomfortable inappropriate conversation to be had about what terrorism is. 
The Suffragettes were responsible for bombing and Arson. Has there been many major changes or a coup against powers that be done without violence? I'm not sure there has.
@Stive Pesleyin another thread arguing about Just Stop Oil etc and was saying these ridiculous stunts that piss people off are the only way to make change. I remember arguing against him but I think I'm wrong. I mean to what lengths and where these protests should be I suppose is a debate. But I understand now what he means. Nobody listens to the sensible guy in the corner. It has to shock. It has to reach beyond the normal audience. 
Anyway, this isn't helpful and borders or even oversteps the mark of justifying Hamas attacks on innocent people. Which is equally as disgusting as the state terrorism we are seeing in Gaza. 
It's impossible to justify terrorism. But at the same time we brand it differently when it's in the history books and the outcome seems morally sound, no? 
I wonder sometimes if Hamas' official line was "Free state of Palestine" that would this group be seen differently? 
But again, behind Israel and Hamas are lot of very powerful people who prod them both to fight. People who live safely in USA, Britain, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc etc