The 2 Big Sam's

[ramit]

Always been a fan of Big Sam and prayed for many a year that he would look our way, but now that it's a remote possibility i'm not so sure anymore.  Damn you Steve, you spoiled me with your fluid high tempo football, now i prefer style over security.

[Ambitious]

I'm not having a pop but where has Mr. Clement managed before he is appointed here? I don't know of him managing anywhere, hence "Untested" ?

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If Derby fans want a virtual guarantee of establishing themselves as a mid-table Premiership club then we should ask Allardyce to join the club. It seems the club are willing to gamble the future on an untested manager and that is what Clement is. 

Am not sure you understand the word 'untested'. Clement hasn't managed/Head Coached before and it is a completely different job description to the one he has at Real Madrid. He has never been tested at the Head Coach level and he might well be a complete flop. Then we are stuck with an 8M wage bill (alleged) for the next four years likely plunging the club back into the financial dark days a few years ago. 

I agree with you that Clement is a strong candidate but he's also a more risky one than many others. He would be stepping into the unknown. 

​Untested, according to the definition, means an idea, product or person not subjected to examination, experiment or experience. 

Let's consider the first point: Examination. He has worked under Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti, Guus Hiddink, Phillip Scolari and a number of others. He has worked with some of the best players of this generation - Cristiano Ronaldo, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, John Terry, Frank Lampard...etc 

He has been kept close by, especially by Ancelotti, due to his ability. He is examined every day by both the players he is working with and the managers he is working under. He is obviously well respected and his reputation in the game is huge.

Second point: Experiment. This piggy-backs on my last notion, really. He is obviously respected for his ideas and that's already his job. We can't attack his coaching ability - fewer are more proven in the game. If his ideas - experiments - didn't work in game situations then what exactly is his job? Why do Real Madrid pay him so well to put cones out? 

Third point: Experience. He's been coaching for 20 years now. He's worked with a huge array of players - which is one of the major pluses about him I like - and he's been scrutinised and questioned every step of the way. He wasn't a footballer, therefore, there was no background for him to fall back on. You look at players like Scholes, who was a genius on the pitch, and people expect him to be able to coach. Clement had to let his ideas and knowledge do the talking - not his past as a world class footballer. He has 100% focused on coaching and that experience has seen him climb the ladder. 

I'm judging this 'untested' notion by him as a person, not a job role he was in. He will have been tested a lot more than other men in management because of his background (or lack of) and the reputation of the men he worked with. I don't see one realistic candidate who would be 'more proven' in my eyes. Sam Allardyce, yes, but he's not realistic. He will land the next sensible Premier League job that comes up, without question. 

He hasn't been a first choice anywhere, no, but I don't see that as a problem at all. He's worked incredibly hard, and incredibly well, to get where he is in life and his accomplishments shouldn't be looked down on. 

All managers come with failures, well nearly all, so anyone we appoint is a gamble. Clement, in my opinion, is worth the gamble.

[jimbobram]

Hoof the ball to Martin, he will work his magic. He could bring a comet down safely and lay it off 

[MuespachRam]

And there in lies everything that is wrong with English sport.

Sport is about enjoyment sometimes you win sometimes you lose but you only get the big bucks if you entertain and win has often bass possible.Occasionally it is not possible to do both ask José but if you can then do it being able to do both is what made Barcelona so popular.

Did a fa course a few years back where they kicked off a guy who said he did not want to learn how to coach kids to be better player's only how to win.

its all about winning. 

Ask the famous Geordie nation if they would have rather seen that season with Keegan and won the league or carried on scoring and conceding and won nothing. 

The only people who say it isn't all about winning are losers. 

I woudk take big Sam in a heart beat, but I don't think we are a big enough club for him, his average finish in the top division is 10th, that is pretty damn good. 

[Ramarena]

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If Derby fans want a virtual guarantee of establishing themselves as a mid-table Premiership club then we should ask Allardyce to join the club. It seems the club are willing to gamble the future on an untested manager and that is what Clement is. 

Am not sure you understand the word 'untested'. Clement hasn't managed/Head Coached before and it is a completely different job description to the one he has at Real Madrid. He has never been tested at the Head Coach level and he might well be a complete flop. Then we are stuck with an 8M wage bill (alleged) for the next four years likely plunging the club back into the financial dark days a few years ago. 

I agree with you that Clement is a strong candidate but he's also a more risky one than many others. He would be stepping into the unknown. 

​Not so sure about Allardyce. Everything at the club would have to change, huge upheaval to produce a different style of football, he would need a fairly big turn around of players. 

It may be successful, maybe not. I would suggest it would still be a fairly big risk, as he would be undoing a lot of the last few years work. 

[Rambam]

Someone remind me how many matches Big Sam has won at West Ham recently. For someone on the wages he's on, he gives the impression that he doesn't give a stuff, and don't forget you get his son taking his slice of the pie as well. NO THANK YOU!

[mcsilks]

Someone remind me how many matches Big Sam has won at West Ham recently. For someone on the wages he's on, he gives the impression that he doesn't give a stuff, and don't forget you get his son taking his slice of the pie as well. NO THANK YOU!

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An 11th placed finish is a good season for West Ham. 

Take a look at where at his finishing positions with the clubs he has managed. It's very, very good indeed.

Look what happened to Bolton when they thought they could go on to bigger and better things. 

[mcsilks]

 

It may be successful, maybe not. I would suggest it would still be a fairly big risk, as he would be undoing a lot of the last few years work. 

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Would that not be the same for any manager that comes in?

[Rambam]

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An 11th placed finish is a good season for West Ham. 

Take a look at where at his finishing positions with the clubs he has managed. It's very, very good indeed.

Look what happened to Bolton when they thought they could go on to bigger and better things. 

You do realise the wheels have fallen off at West Ham even more than here. They are rock bottom of the form league. He has given the impression that his job was done as soon as they got enough points to stay up. He knew he was leaving.

[Ramarena]

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Would that not be the same for any manager that comes in?

​To an extent, although Clement is supposedly in a similar vein to what has come before. I think the club are looking for as much continuity as possible despite the change. If Clement plays with a similar style and systems then changes would be more targeted as opposed to a wholesale change.

Obviously this is all hypothetical and until the club make some announcements we won't know for sure.

[mcsilks]

You do realise the wheels have fallen off at West Ham even more than here. They are rock bottom of the form league. He has given the impression that his job was done as soon as they got enough points to stay up. He knew he was leaving.

​Then that just goes to show what an impressive job he did managing to finish 11th despite being bottom of the form league.

 

[mcsilks]

​To an extent, although Clement is supposedly in a similar vein to what has come before. I think the club are looking for as much continuity as possible despite the change. If Clement plays with a similar style and systems then changes would be more targeted as opposed to a wholesale change.

Obviously this is all hypothetical and until the club make some announcements we won't know for sure.

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Perish the thought of changing that great system that stood us in such good stead last season.

I would welcome a wholesale change in system quite frankly.

You said 'you think the club are looking for continuity'. Well I say if the club are looking for continuity, the best way to ensure that is to keep the current manager because replacing him would be doing exactly the opposite.

[eddie]

I don't want continuity - I want progress.

[Ramarena]

I don't want continuity - I want progress.

​They are not always mutually exclusive. The next manager could provide continuity and progress. Shoring up the defence would be a big start. 

[eddie]

​They are not always mutually exclusive. The next manager could provide continuity and progress. Shoring up the defence would be a big start. 

​Agreed.

Continuity is not an end in itself - and there is no guarantee that continuity will bring progress. 

[RamNut]

I don't want continuity - I want progress.

be careful what you wish for - see wording below crest 

 

 

[eddie]

be careful what you wish for - see wording below crest 

 

 

​You know my feelings about Blackpool. Progress for them would be an end to the Oystons' reign.

[Anon]

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Perish the thought of changing that great system that stood us in such good stead last season.

I would welcome a wholesale change in system quite frankly.

You said 'you think the club are looking for continuity'. Well I say if the club are looking for continuity, the best way to ensure that is to keep the current manager because replacing him would be doing exactly the opposite.

​The great system that for 75% of the season saw us dominate most teams we played and put us comfortably among the best in the division. The system that we had to change due to injury and picked up 2 wins in 13.

Yes, throw it out with the bathwater. I never liked that baby anyway.

[Alph]

​The great system that for 75% of the season saw us dominate most teams we played and put us comfortably among the best in the division. The system that we had to change due to injury and picked up 2 wins in 13.

Yes, throw it out with the bathwater. I never liked that baby anyway.

Not just last season either. It worked spectacularly well in his first season. 

The system wasn't to blame for terrible passes, missed punches, dropped catches and missed open goals (yes Mr Lingard. You missed 3 sitters when it was easier to score). 

Too many fans are desperate to find one thing to blame for the ending and toss it in the bin. 

There was a whole bunch of reasons. Self inflicted and out of our control. 

People seem determined to find one thing and put all their hate into it.

[eddie]

Not just last season either. It worked spectacularly well in his first season. 

The system wasn't to blame for terrible passes, missed punches, dropped catches and missed open goals (yes Mr Lingard. You missed 3 sitters when it was easier to score). 

Too many fans are desperate to find one thing to blame for the ending and toss it in the bin. 

There was a whole bunch of reasons. Self inflicted and out of our control. 

People seem determined to find one thing and put all their hate into it.

​Naturally….