Glick comes out of hiding

[McRamFan]

They have failed IMO, I say this looking at DCFC from their perspective. They didn't come over here to plug massive losses every year and talk about FFP. Make no mistake, they expected to be in their counting houses by now. I bet Appleby rues the day he ever set eyes on our club because let us face it, a return on their money looks a million miles away, doesn't it? I believe if FFP is a success and we do in the long term benefit from it, the investors will be glad to wipe their face.

I'd love to have been in that boardroom last year when they loaned us 7M to cover losses. They must've been wondering where it had all gone so wrong. Afterall they're money men and they're not making any. They aren't football men. That is my observation. I'm not sure they knew what they taking on when they started and I bet had they known what they do now they wouldn't be here. We need them to be a success, all I've seen so far is them fail on their initial goal and invent another. Ofcourse a certain Mr Jewell has a lot to answer for too.

As I asked top six, how have they failed? Even if they sold the club tomorrow and broke even would you consider that a failure? I try to break even every month and consider it a success.

When have they ever stated that they expected to be in profit and paying dividends by this point? I can only remember them saying that they where working to sustainabiliy. There has been a lot of factors that have caused the original plan to change, it probably starts with Jewell and the massive legacy of a squad of over paid and long contracted duds. Every day that one of those was here added to the debt. Recession, that has probably impacted ticket sales, advertising revenue, merchantising, match day sales of programmes and refreshments, away ticket sales, non-match corporate events.

If you think it was a surprise that 7m had to be found to plug the hole, I would expect that the projected whole half way through the season was probably closer to 10m. These 'money men' are here to make money, and since the start Glick and Appleby have stated this was a long term project, and NC confirmed that when he came on board.

Finally no set of investors that contains 3 billionaires invests in any company without knowing what they are doing, even if it is a mere 50m - you are thinking of bankers.

[Guest]

I think like Silly Billy says without Glick there would have been a revolution by now, when Glick does leave if they don't get someone in who can turn a phrase or answer a question like him then the runners of this operation will be in a sticky spot. I think a few things need to be said:

1) We don't know what the fee is, it could have been 1.1 million or it could have been 2 million

2) One player has come to the club while several have left, however we still have 6 weeks until the season starts so arrivals are likely.

3) If some supporters feel it neccesary to withdraw funds from the club that is their decision and it must be respected. I haven't renewed my season ticket yet because I am not sure if I can get back from university enough for it to be cost effective.

4) Derby County have been in worse situations than this, we have survived the 3 amigo's and pride park being owned by a company in Panama with dubious links. We survived that and we shall survive this.

5) If we start the season poorly the manager and board need to stay strong and stick it out, the pressure is on because of the awful way they have handled this summer thus far. It has been handled poorly and they have heaped pressure on themselves and the players.

While many do argue these are dark times for Derby this is in reality a period of stability for Derby. I started supporting the club in 2001 when I was 7 years old, I am now 18 and I have seen the club lurch through around 8-9 managers, 4 different owners, being on the brink of administration for a couple of years and struggle for 6-7 years with promotion on the cards for 2 years. As Derby fans we feel the need to create drama even when there isn't one because of the way the club has been for a decade. We expect the managers head to role, for the club to be on the brink and fighting relegation because that is what we are used to. In reality this is our greatest period of stability I have known, and I tihnk unless a big buyer comes in the management and owners aren't moving. Yes improvement at the moment is difficult to see and it will be a tough division this year, however we cannot judge until the season starts. So let us wait with baited breath as the new arrivals come flooding in and we can get back down to the business of supporting our club and being optimistic for the forthcoming season.

[Guest]

As I asked top six, how have they failed? Even if they sold the club tomorrow and broke even would you consider that a failure? I try to break even every month and consider it a success.

When have they ever stated that they expected to be in profit and paying dividends by this point? I can only remember them saying that they where working to sustainabiliy. There has been a lot of factors that have caused the original plan to change, it probably starts with Jewell and the massive legacy of a squad of over paid and long contracted duds. Every day that one of those was here added to the debt. Recession, that has probably impacted ticket sales, advertising revenue, merchantising, match day sales of programmes and refreshments, away ticket sales, non-match corporate events.

If you think it was a surprise that 7m had to be found to plug the hole, I would expect that the projected whole half way through the season was probably closer to 10m. These 'money men' are here to make money, and since the start Glick and Appleby have stated this was a long term project, and NC confirmed that when he came on board.

Finally no set of investors that contains 3 billionaires invests in any company without knowing what they are doing, even if it is a mere 50m - you are thinking of bankers.

I have to disagree with some of what you are saying, hopefully no offence taken ;-)

When the people invested in the club, the aim was to make derby into a global brand and premiership force, they pumped a few quid at it, and it didn't work for various reasons, they are now working towards a different model, one that sees the club running self sufficient or with little money being used to cover any defecit. If they sold the club tommorow they would not break even, and given their time again I'm sure they would not touch derby with a barge pole. You may aim to break even, but I am guessing that you take a salary out of your business, these people do not, so why would they be happy, even if they got there money back ?

It would not surprise me if they have other investments in other companies, it's not unknown for entrepreneurs to make several investments in the hope that one will make it big, as yet derby hasn't.

Where they have got it right, is by using GSE to run it, they have acted in the investors best interests and probably saved the investors millions along the way, whether they will ever get other clubs to buy into the FPP in the way derby have, to make the club once more attractive to any potential buyers remains to be seen, but as yet I would think that the investors look at their time at derby with regret rather than joy.

Just my opinion of course!

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think the owners have been very smart. I agree the initial plan failed when Pearson and Jewell mucked it up! They pretty quickly sussed out that in this league you cannot buy success as easily as the Prem simply because the talant guarenteed to make a difference won't play in this division. You either get someone on the way down or expensive nearly men. They have been prudent in my opinion. Sure, this is bit of a pioneering approach these days but a (cheapish) close knit, young, hungry talented squad might just upset the popular opinion. The experiment is on.................You never know, if we accept where we are and get behind the club as a whole Derby County will still be quite a force to be reckoned with.

[SillyBilly]

As I asked top six, how have they failed? Even if they sold the club tomorrow and broke even would you consider that a failure? I try to break even every month and consider it a success.

When have they ever stated that they expected to be in profit and paying dividends by this point? I can only remember them saying that they where working to sustainabiliy. There has been a lot of factors that have caused the original plan to change, it probably starts with Jewell and the massive legacy of a squad of over paid and long contracted duds. Every day that one of those was here added to the debt. Recession, that has probably impacted ticket sales, advertising revenue, merchantising, match day sales of programmes and refreshments, away ticket sales, non-match corporate events.

If you think it was a surprise that 7m had to be found to plug the hole, I would expect that the projected whole half way through the season was probably closer to 10m. These 'money men' are here to make money, and since the start Glick and Appleby have stated this was a long term project, and NC confirmed that when he came on board.

Finally no set of investors that contains 3 billionaires invests in any company without knowing what they are doing, even if it is a mere 50m - you are thinking of bankers.

McRamFan, you'll have to excuse my assumptions but I stand by my belief that IMO the investors expected to be out by now. I'm quite prepared to accept another viewpoint on this without sharing it.

I don't think it was an overnight surprise to them. They knew we blew our major chance with the end of the 'chute payments.

You can choose to think differently on the last point. Its a lottery, they're rich enough to have a punt on it. You can't always control the fortunes on the pitch regardless of how good you are off it. I can't understand why they're here, even the potential return looks pitiful against their wealth.

[jagerbob]

We will be in the top 6 in 2 seasons time.

Mark my words.

Top6 of league 1 mind.

[Guest]

Prudent ? Not so sure about that, they probably just don't want to invest any more money into something that won't guarantee a ROI.

Even with this current buisness model they won't gt that without getting promoted, and it's all well and good saying we could be a force to be reckoned with, but that's simply not true, we are now in a league where we have a budget that is lower than 18 of the clubs in this league.

Our talented young squad as you elegantly put it, finished 12th last year, and from that we have lost 3 regulars from the team along with several squad members, we proved last season that with our first 11 we are a match for anyone on our day, but outside of that we struggle to put it mildly.

[ramblur]

As I asked top six, how have they failed? Even if they sold the club tomorrow and broke even would you consider that a failure? I try to break even every month and consider it a success.

When have they ever stated that they expected to be in profit and paying dividends by this point? I can only remember them saying that they where working to sustainabiliy. There has been a lot of factors that have caused the original plan to change, it probably starts with Jewell and the massive legacy of a squad of over paid and long contracted duds. Every day that one of those was here added to the debt. Recession, that has probably impacted ticket sales, advertising revenue, merchantising, match day sales of programmes and refreshments, away ticket sales, non-match corporate events.

If you think it was a surprise that 7m had to be found to plug the hole, I would expect that the projected whole half way through the season was probably closer to 10m. These 'money men' are here to make money, and since the start Glick and Appleby have stated this was a long term project, and NC confirmed that when he came on board.

Finally no set of investors that contains 3 billionaires invests in any company without knowing what they are doing, even if it is a mere 50m - you are thinking of bankers.

The 07/08 directors' report states that it was an ambition to return to the Prem by the end of the 09/10 season.This report also welcomes Clough to the club,so you have an idea of when it was compiled.Hence you could hardly state that "from the start" it was a long term project -there's also no mention of sustainability,this came in the following year's report.I think it's safe to say that they've failed miserably in trying to achieve their stated ambition at the outset.

There seems to be some misunderstanding over the role of the £6.8m loan,probably because it's fairly close to the reported headline loss.I've tried in the past to point out that this doesn't constitute a cash loss (outflow from operations was £3.943m) and part of their loan financed capital expenditure (£1.565m net on players and £450k on fixed assets,which caused a little amusement in the accounts thread).It should be noted that the players amount doesn't represent the value of players bought that year and could include amounts owing from previous years).

As well as the items mentioned above,interest of £418k net was also met,and cash increased over the year by £572k,which also has to be factored in.The revolving loan (difference between new debt taken out and that repaid) also chipped in to the tune of about £150k.In conclusion, the "hole" to be filled looks to have been around £4.4m.

I haven't a clue why you should expect that the hole would be anticipated at £10m half way through-that would be tantamount to accusing them of being pretty poor at cash forecasts!

[Cisse]

So we should judge them once the summer transfer business has been completed. Where have I heard this before ?

[ramblur]

So we should judge them once the summer transfer business has been completed. Where have I heard this before ?

Must admit that last summer's action reminded me of one of my all time favourite films.The "Set up"-expect signings to have us competing in the top 6.The "Hook"-flurry of early transfer activity (I'll leave out the middle 2 phases).The "Shut out"-first game of season passes,so no more refunds........and,of course, the "Sting"-period between end of game and transfer deadline day,when folks realise that 2 rather important pieces of the jigsaw haven't materialised.

Even starting to wonder if we're into Sting 2 -"set up" -priming for Shackell departure."Hook"-his sale will enable us to strengthen.

As for the final stages,I see we're again being primed for late activity.If Glick's leaving in mid August,wasn't he supposed to be around to work on all these deals?

[top 6 finish]

(Snipped irrelevant bit)

Oh look. Might the slightest defence of the board and you suggest I work for them. Well done. What a wonderful debater you are.

Should I suggest you're a Forest fan now?

I was also going to ask, which "failing decisions" are these? Your response: -

So do you have nothing? If they're that bad you must have little least a few small things to pick on? We're only asking what they are, maybe if you shared them we may join you're board-hating club too, wouldn't that be nice?

Thank you for inviting me to comment on my opinions of the boards performance over our last 4 years.However

I must decline for several reasons:Its not just because everything i say will get a response from you that will

distort the truth;be full of red herrings,and full of spin that is all designed to defend the board no matter what

even if it means blaming the manager.you've already done that.

Its partly because everybody on here have thier own opinions on why our performancies have been as they have

over the past 4 years.No its mainly because we are coming to the start of a new season.Hopefully for season

ticket holders and people who have made arrangements to see certain matches a season to be optimistic and

hopefully some good signings that will push us to the top.Not a good time for an anti-board rant.Lets hope they

have learnt lessons and we will look again at mid-season and again at the end of season.

COME ON YOU FECKING RAMS!!!!

[curb]

They have failed IMO, I say this looking at DCFC from their perspective. They didn't come over here to plug massive losses every year and talk about FFP. Make no mistake, they expected to be in their counting houses by now. I bet Appleby rues the day he ever set eyes on our club because let us face it, a return on their money looks a million miles away, doesn't it? I believe if FFP is a success and we do in the long term benefit from it, the investors will be glad to wipe their face.

I'd love to have been in that boardroom last year when they loaned us 7M to cover losses. They must've been wondering where it had all gone so wrong. Afterall they're money men and they're not making any. They aren't football men. That is my observation. I'm not sure they knew what they taking on when they started and I bet had they known what they do now they wouldn't be here. We need them to be a success, all I've seen so far is them fail on their initial goal and invent another. Ofcourse a certain Mr Jewell has a lot to answer for too.

Massive fail.

[jcidaho]

I think their biggest mistake post Jewell is keeping Clough. It's so depressing at the moment.

I can't see GSE going, but I maybe can see Clough being fired by a new director of football after a run of the usual results. This is about the only hope I see for us at the moment.

[Martyn]

Thank you for inviting me to comment on my opinions of the boards performance over our last 4 years.However

I must decline for several reasons:Its not just because everything i say will get a response from you that will

distort the truth;be full of red herrings,and full of spin that is all designed to defend the board no matter what

even if it means blaming the manager.you've already done that.

Its partly because everybody on here have thier own opinions on why our performancies have been as they have

over the past 4 years.No its mainly because we are coming to the start of a new season.Hopefully for season

ticket holders and people who have made arrangements to see certain matches a season to be optimistic and

hopefully some good signings that will push us to the top.Not a good time for an anti-board rant.Lets hope they

have learnt lessons and we will look again at mid-season and again at the end of season.

COME ON YOU FECKING RAMS!!!!

Ok, I get what you're saying. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[ladyram]

I think their biggest mistake post Jewell is keeping Clough. It's so depressing at the moment.

I can't see GSE going, but I maybe can see Clough being fired by a new director of football after a run of the usual results. This is about the only hope I see for us at the moment.

The club aren't having a DOF are they? Thought they'd scrapped that idea?

[SillyBilly]

The 07/08 directors' report states that it was an ambition to return to the Prem by the end of the 09/10 season.This report also welcomes Clough to the club,so you have an idea of when it was compiled.Hence you could hardly state that "from the start" it was a long term project -there's also no mention of sustainability,this came in the following year's report.I think it's safe to say that they've failed miserably in trying to achieve their stated ambition at the outset.

There seems to be some misunderstanding over the role of the £6.8m loan,probably because it's fairly close to the reported headline loss.I've tried in the past to point out that this doesn't constitute a cash loss (outflow from operations was £3.943m) and part of their loan financed capital expenditure (£1.565m net on players and £450k on fixed assets,which caused a little amusement in the accounts thread).It should be noted that the players amount doesn't represent the value of players bought that year and could include amounts owing from previous years).

As well as the items mentioned above,interest of £418k net was also met,and cash increased over the year by £572k,which also has to be factored in.The revolving loan (difference between new debt taken out and that repaid) also chipped in to the tune of about £150k.In conclusion, the "hole" to be filled looks to have been around £4.4m.

I haven't a clue why you should expect that the hole would be anticipated at £10m half way through-that would be tantamount to accusing them of being pretty poor at cash forecasts!

Thanks for that post. I've always maintained as a sensible assumption that this investment was never meant to be "long term". We all know that we need Prem football and we're a long way off it. I know there is still a long time to go before season kick-off but as it stands I'm looking down the league to see our competition, not up.

[McRamFan]

GSE came in and where caught cold, we had a poor manager who was throwing cash and contracts around like confetti. He went, NC came in and was told we can't afford to have 40 1st team players, here is the hatchet. Then the Banks decide to blow all our money, and then we have to give them our money to bail them out.

Regardless of the timetable GSE had to come in and make us a global brand and get us promoted more than just one event happened to cause this plan to change. Also they have stated on a number of times they are here for the long term.

As YR has said, this is one of the most stable periods we have had for over 10 years. I am as frustrated by the seaming lack of ambition as anyone else, however I cannot ever agree that this board has failed. They have not delivered on certain goals, however they are still running the club and not ruining it. Failure to me would be them to have caused the club to go into administration.

Would you like to be in Portsmouths or Rangers position? Yeah we won the FA cup four years ago.......oh we don't have a club anymore, and the new one is starting in non-league.....

[Martyn]

Ooh i agree with that.

I'm not going into "would you rather be like...." but definately I feel lots of things happen to put us here. The owners aren't going to be giving us cash to splash out with any time soon but the board are doing really well with the bad hand they've got left.

Glick going worries me more each day.

[Alph]

Again, Pompey and Rangers didn't get where they are by spending 800k here and 700k there and selling a player here and buying a player for £1m all the time having a reasonable wage cap.

They both spent multiple millions on individual players and paid them whatever they wanted.

Like Leicester. The "I want" kid in a sweet shop.

[SillyBilly]

I think the description attached to failure is the only point of contention here, simply being solvent doesn't do it for me.

No idea what effect the recession had on Derby. But I'm sure it hasn't made it any easier for the other 91 to achieve their goals.