Derby County Statement - Safe Standing.

[G STAR RAM]

[size=4]This was quoted from chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group today, [/size]

[size=4]"There are 96 reasons why it should not be allowed," said Margaret Aspinall, whose son died at Hillsborough.[/size]

[size=1][size=4]"Standing should never, ever come back. I do not think there is anything safe about standing.[/size][/size]

[size=1][size=4]"I feel insulted that people are trying to fight for justice for Hillsborough while this campaign is growing."[/size][/size]

[size=4]I obviously see her point of view but the technology has vastly improved and everything is sensibly controlled and monitor now so it'll cause minimal risk to anyone who stands in these areas. I heard a bloke on BBC Breakfast today say that it'll be between 10% and 15% of the stadium that can be safe standing so that's what the south stand in our stadium? I don't see any issues with that. It gives fans the choice of where they want to be and [/size][size=4]enhances the atmosphere and a bigger allocation for stadiums so clubs can potentially make more revenue from it.[/size]

I don't see any downside to the idea in my opinion.

I assume this woman is against cars being on the road and aeroplanes being in the sky too then?

Whilst I have sympathy for all of the victims and families of Hillsborough, this woman really is sticking her nose in where it is not wanted and on a subject which I believe that she will have very little knowledge in.

I feel insulted that she thinks she can make decisions for people on how they want to spend their spare time.

[Rampant Rob]

I assume this woman is against cars being on the road and aeroplanes being in the sky too then?

Whilst I have sympathy for all of the victims and families of Hillsborough, this woman really is sticking her nose in where it is not wanted and on a subject which I believe that she will have very little knowledge in.

I feel insulted that she thinks she can make decisions for people on how they want to spend their spare time.

The women is sticking her nose in. Her son died!

[G STAR RAM]

The women is sticking her nose in. Her son died!

Yes, he was one of 96 fans that died out of millions who have stood up at football matches over the last 120 years or so.

Like I said I have sympathy for the famililes.

Does the fact that her son died standing at a football match make her an expert on the case, my guess is not. A lot of research will have been put into this matter and I am pretty sure she will have not been involved in the process.

Also as previously stated, if her son had died in a car crash I doubt she would be campaigning for driving to be banned.

[EastKentRam]

I assume this woman is against cars being on the road and aeroplanes being in the sky too then?

Whilst I have sympathy for all of the victims and families of Hillsborough, this woman really is sticking her nose in where it is not wanted and on a subject which I believe that she will have very little knowledge in.

I feel insulted that she thinks she can make decisions for people on how they want to spend their spare time.

Well said, so very true.

Someone needs to tell this woman a few facts and things she may not like to hear.

Why isnt this woman campaigning for every concert and event involving a large amount of people to be all seated, cos it's exactly the same scenario.

[Gap tooth ram]

Think it's a great idea, however, I feel the timing may put a stop to this for now. With the recent revelations around the police cover up, the subject is currently too relevant and too raw and the football authorities will not want to rock the boat with the hillsborough victims families. Also, the lack of support from premier league clubs will stop it happening. Only Villa have backed it and ultimately we all know the fat cat premiership chairman tend to get their way and the rest of us can go to hell.

Like I said, I back it, just think a year from now it would have more chance of getting pushed through.

[G STAR RAM]

Think it's a great idea, however, I feel the timing may put a stop to this for now. With the recent revelations around the police cover up, the subject is currently too relevant and too raw and the football authorities will not want to rock the boat with the hillsborough victims families. Also, the lack of support from premier league clubs will stop it happening. Only Villa have backed it and ultimately we all know the fat cat premiership chairman tend to get their way and the rest of us can go to hell.

Like I said, I back it, just think a year from now it would have more chance of getting pushed through.

But lets not forget Hillsborough disaster happened 23 years ago when English football had not long come out of some of the darkest days it had ever seen.

Times have changed an awful lot since 1989.

[ladyram]

Well said, so very true.

Someone needs to tell this woman a few facts and things she may not like to hear.

Why isnt this woman campaigning for every concert and event involving a large amount of people to be all seated, cos it's exactly the same scenario.

Would you tell her then? I wouldn't because I think she has all the facts she needs to make her own opinions. And it's easy for others to slate what she says, but would you feel the same about standing if it was your relative who'd died?

I'm not sure I would.

[Boycie]

With utter respect for the dead, this is "safe" standing. It's nothing like what happened at Hillsborough.

[EastKentRam]

It's just illogical thinking, isnt the Hillsborough campaign designed around the people at fault for the tragedy to take responsiblity? You cant blame poor policing and the authorities and then say standing was too blame. Thousands of situations occur every day where a large group of people are stood in a confined area.

Some people just lack common sense, it's people standing up in a group. If people genuinely think that is dangerous then they must think standing on a train, a bus, on a busy platform, at a concert, in a busy pub are all dangerous as well. They should be campaigning for any situation where people are standing as a group to be banned, that's how stupid and illogical it is.

[Gap tooth ram]

Like I said, I'm in favour, but timing is not right. Regardless of what we think and how long ago it was is irrelevant in the eye's of the FA. The fallout from the recent cover up is massive and this cannot be under estimated in the decision regarding safe standing.

Won't happen......yet, but it will within 2 years.

[ladyram]

With utter respect for the dead, this is "safe" standing. It's nothing like what happened at Hillsborough.

I know what you're saying, I guess the idea of something going wrong and having loads of people crushed again is what's stopping them thinking that it could ever be safe? I dunno 'http://www.dcfcfans.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

[Boycie]

I know what you're saying, I guess the idea of something going wrong and having loads of people crushed again is what's stopping them thinking that it could ever be safe? I dunno 'http://www.dcfcfans.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

i know, but times move on, and improvements are made.

All seater was a quick fix and it has resulted in loss of atmosphere. Also an excuse to raise ticket prices, cus you always paid more for a seat.

The time is right in my opinion. Like others have said, they parents should be pissed with the South Yorkshire police.

Even if it was all seater back then, and there was loads of fake tickets about and queues, they would have still opened up that gate. The crush would have happened down the gangways seats or no seats. in my opinion.

[networker1884]

Think it's a great idea, however, I feel the timing may put a stop to this for now. With the recent revelations around the police cover up, the subject is currently too relevant and too raw and the football authorities will not want to rock the boat with the hillsborough victims families. Also, the lack of support from premier league clubs will stop it happening. Only Villa have backed it and ultimately we all know the fat cat premiership chairman tend to get their way and the rest of us can go to hell.

Like I said, I back it, just think a year from now it would have more chance of getting pushed through.

\

A year from now...because we're gonna be in the prem so we can back it? Aye, I agree. 'http://www.dcfcfans.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[ramblur]

Whilst I'm sure we all feel the deepest sympathy for the lady in respect of her sad loss,she should specify these 96 reasons that she mentions.As davenport speculated some time ago,I'm sure events would have taken a different course if facts now known had been available at the time.There was never anything inherently unsafe about standing per se,and I'd love to see any statistics on injuries/mortalities prior to Hillsborough.I'm sure we've all seen images of packed open terraces with thousands of rattles being brandished and kids standing on crates-the times when the working man could really enjoy his passion (ditto female gender).

I see no reason why standing capacities couldn't have been reduced as a holding measure, and I think a body with some clout should have been set up to examine ground safety and that supporters should have been allowed access to such body to express any concerns they might have about safety issues relevant to their own particular clubs.

Many of us will remember dire issues with a popside exit,and from memory the club (weakly) said at the time there wasn't anything they could do about it (and I apologise if I have this wrong).However,if an organisation with clout had leant on the club,there might have been a different outcome (I got the impression that it would have taken a fatality for the club to act).If nothing else,extra stewarding might at least have been able to regulate the exit flow,which was causing the problem.Not completely dissimilar to Hillsborough in that you have a surge of fans oblivious to the problems that lay ahead.Of course this would have cost money =possible clue.

I can well see how those who've never experienced big standing crowds would struggle to see how the current proposals could possibly be labelled unsafe.For those of us who have,the whole concept is utterly ridiculous-the January sales would hold far greater perils.I feel so sorry for those who've been denied such enjoyment.

[ramblur]

Of course,my last sentence related to standing,as opposed to sales,LOL.

[uttoxram75]

The ones saying "this woman is sticking her nose in" are showing their ignorance and bigotry.

She has a right to her opinion. I must admit, if a child of mine had been crushed to death on a terrace I may feel differently about it.

Having said that, IMO the fencing and locked gates were more to blame than terracing.

As Ramblur has said, the terraces could have been made safe by controlling overcrowding fairly easily without resorting to the nuclear option of all seating stadia.

The safe standing is proven in Germany - its not a gamble if done properly.

[ramblur]

The ones saying "this woman is sticking her nose in" are showing their ignorance and bigotry.

She has a right to her opinion. I must admit, if a child of mine had been crushed to death on a terrace I may feel differently about it.

Having said that, IMO the fencing and locked gates were more to blame than terracing.

As Ramblur has said, the terraces could have been made safe by controlling overcrowding fairly easily without resorting to the nuclear option of all seating stadia.

The safe standing is proven in Germany - its not a gamble if done properly.

Yes,utch,at the time they could have reduced standing capacities and made the sections all ticket.Not brilliant,but far better than total loss of the true heartbeat.

[Uptherams]

Again science, technology and progress suffer because someone is offended.

[ramblur]

Whilst I'm sure we all feel the deepest sympathy for the lady in respect of her sad loss,she should specify these 96 reasons that she mentions..

Just realised the significance of the 96 reasons-apologies for my appaling gaffe,and comment withdrawn.

[BorneoRam]

The ones saying "this woman is sticking her nose in" are showing their ignorance and bigotry.

She has a right to her opinion. I must admit, if a child of mine had been crushed to death on a terrace I may feel differently about it.

Having said that, IMO the fencing and locked gates were more to blame than terracing.

As Ramblur has said, the terraces could have been made safe by controlling overcrowding fairly easily without resorting to the nuclear option of all seating stadia.

The safe standing is proven in Germany - its not a gamble if done properly.

Sticking her nose in is harsh but it should be recognised that she will not be capable of having an objective view about it (I probably wouldn't be able to either), her opinion is based on emotion when what this needs is logic and a thorough study of the safety issues involved. Whatever comes out of it any approval must be on a voluntary basis and away ends must always be all seater - I would understand completely if Liverpool decided to remain all seater as many of their fans are clearly of the opinion that terracing was to blame - the away end stipulation should be there to protect them also - i.e. a liverpool fan (or any other) should only stand if they want to and in their home ground.

My first thought when I read her comments was also about aeroplanes but then that is a logical response to an emotional one and is not fair - it would be interesting to know what the 96 would have thought had Hillsborough happened to another club, after all they were football fans and the Kop was one of the most legendary terraces in world football, unfortunately we will never know but if fans want it and it can be proven to be safe then democracy should take over.