Catch 23 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Right, now that I've had time to mull it over. Rooney was useless, as was Young and Milner. Gerrard and Parker are well past it. Defence was OK to good and Hart was excellent as always. It seems clear to me that if the likes of Wilshere, Rodwell, Cleverley and Kyle Walker were fully fit for the Euros then Hodgson would or could have picked them. These are the players we need, and this is what many have been saying since the last World Cup. Forget Lampard, Barry, Terry, Gerrard, we need to get a young hardworking team together and playing regularly. I blame Cappello that this wasn't allowed to happen after 2010. He didn't do enough to blood the youngsters through, hence why Stevie G and co are STILL in the squad after failing at five successful international tournaments. Hodgson got his tactics a bit off tonight, replacing Welbeck instead of Young made no sense and not letting Ox run at the Italian defence later on was a bad move (I'm not going to discuss the Italian side as frankly I'm not in the mood). That said, we rode our luck and had one or two opportunities and started pretty well, but faded and let Italy dominate. If we'd won on penalties half of you would be saying 'boo, England didn't deserve it', yet you can have all of the chances you want, you've got to take them to 'deserve' victory. Fine margins, I guess. I'll give Roy Hodgson credit too. Although, like I said, he got it a bit wrong tonight, the fact that he got us to the Quarter Finals (and only missing out on penalties) with only a month of preparation and with a large injury list is an admirable achievement. How would 'Arry have done? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not really sure what to say, I love national tournaments and I love England. Congratulations to the team because no matter what you think of certain individuals they got to the quarters, which is more than some people thought they'd achieve. They should be proud of themselves because they represented England extremely well this year, and so did the fans. Every game they were outnumbered but you could always hear them, even over the top of the hostile Ukranians. Time for a new era methinks, looking forward to it. We may not be the best but I can't wait until Brazil 2014 or France 2016, all being well. Ya never know, Welbeck, Chamberlain and a few other youngesters might turn out to be absolute gems...Mason Bennett? heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Wayne Rooney, one of the top strikers in the world... 250k a week striker, endorsed and touted by so many. I believe tonight we'd of been better off with playing Theo Robinson and i'm not even joking, and also I believe that I would of done a similar if not better job than Henderson in his time on the pitch, disgusting looked to wander around and keep his nose out the game, at this level... *******s! but to my original point, the italian team isn't that good... and with Chiellini out as well, poor showing! I know it's all about opinions and that but I'll say it again, possession, movement, intelligent passing and creativity is what the best teams are all about.. Not much between the teams? Who exactly on our team is world class? Take a look at the top teams in England and tell me who exactly are their better players and where do they come from... Just take a look at our team.. A midfield four of Milner, Parker, Young and Gerrard.. Are you serious? None of them have any sort of ball ability whatsoever.. Milner is a defensive winger, Parker is an absoloute nobody who is seriously overrated, Gerrard when at Liverpool was carried by his ballplaying superior CMs (Lucas, Alonso, Macherano) and Young (do I even need to go there?).. Now look at our strikers, Rooney is decent but he's not in the same bracket as those worldclass players who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck (Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Pirlo, Iniesta, Silva, Ozil).. Welbeck is a 6/10 striker with poor control.. Our defence is solid but offer nothing going forward.. Italy were technically better all over the pitch.. Their movement, passing, running, close control and fullback play were so superior.. England were miles behind technically and it showed.. We don't have world class players, our better players are carried by their better foreigners at club level.. Italys fullbacks bombed on and Abate was far superior to Cole in everyway.. Why does everyone Rave about Cole, he's supposed to be an attacking fullback? Defensively he's great but going forward he's not even in the top 20.. He can't cross, dribble, use his right foot, shoot or pull people out of position.. Glenn Johnson is far superior going forward.. Why doesn't anyone understand this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Italy just have a few of those players that make a difference, their midfield was very strong tonight. Should probably have wrapped it up way before the end of 90 minutes. They don't score many goals them Italians, very wasteful. A better attacking side will break down that defence, that's why I fancy the Germans to punish them, more so than Spain because Germany are very direct. Not really sure there's that much difference between Ashley Cole or Glen Johnson other than Cole has better positional awareness, he can make a tackle. Going forward neither of them create much, like you say Coles final ball is poor and Johnson doesn't make his mind up in time. Although he does flatter himself with those wild exciting left footers. I think we'll have quite a few different options in the coming years in regards to wingers, offensively and defensively. Midfield wise though, unless we're asking Wilshere to come back in similar form to 2010/11, not sure where else we're getting the quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Why is grassfoot football only just being talked about? Brazil 2002 we got outplayed by pressing, passing controllable football Portugal 2004 we got outplayed trying to hold onto a lucky 1-0 lead in the first half.. Patient probing passing football was the winner Portugal 2006 Pretty much the same as 2004 Croatia 2008 Now smaller European teams are catching on and still we're not Germany 2010 Seriosuly how much longer can our dour defensive football go on? Italy 2012 OK so 10 years we're finally talking about something that was obvious.. The FA have fecked us over bigtime and the little boom (more like Russian and Arab money) of the PL during the mid 2000s got people excited and believed that pace and power was the be all and end all.. The 4 countries in the semi-final have all got their **** in order and have been practicing their styles to good effect over the past 10 years.. What exactly have we been doing? And another question, those that say Spain are boring yet England are entertaining... We were as bad as Greece.. Other than our RB nearly scoring in the 6th or 7th minute did we even work Buffon at any other moment? I think Gerrard has hit the nail on the head when he said people should be proud of their efforts.. England are no better than Denmark or Croatia so a quarter final place and a narrow loss can be a cause for being proud... The deluded expectations is what will make people disappointed now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I agree with lots of the above, but over the tournament i have to say that despite what Bris says about Stevie G he was consistently one of our better players,along with Glen Johnson, Scott Parker, and the promising young Danny Welbeck who i thought put in a decent shift each game,yes he made some mistakes,but they all did, its always going to be the case when your playing on the back foot.... and that brings pressure, which causes mistakes.... We should know here at DCFC..... That said, i believe RH will learn and improve the squad and shape and flexibility for the world cup, as this i believe was his 'work in progress, but he's got to address his devotion to Ashley Young, as the fella had a shocking tournament and i was amazed he was still on the pitch to miss that penalty......... Roll on Brazil 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It's a shame that one of the most technically gifted players that we've produced in the last decade rarely got a look in - Joe Cole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It's a shame that one of the most technically gifted players that we've produced in the last decade rarely got a look in - Joe Cole. I doubt Roy has seen Joe Cole play lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRam Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well, in hindsight, I'd rather go out to Italy on penalties, than get absolutely slaughtered by the Germans, which we undoubtedly would have been - THAT would not have been nice viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 John Terry.....I hate him and this pains me to type this but thank God he was in the team, he's one of only a few I can't critisize this morning. I think the future looks bleak entertainment-wise under Hodgson and I now understand a bit better why he was given the bodyswerve by the Anfield faithful. Despite the odd occasion, I thought we were inept and Gerrard in particular had one of his most ineffective games for his country and I sympathise with those that paid good money to get over there and watch that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I've not read the rest of this thread, but Ashley Young should never pull on an England shirt again, he was useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucknall Ram Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 John Terry.....I hate him and this pains me to type this but thank God he was in the team, he's one of only a few I can't critisize this morning. I think the future looks bleak entertainment-wise under Hodgson and I now understand a bit better why he was given the bodyswerve by the Anfield faithful. Despite the odd occasion, I thought we were inept and Gerrard in particular had one of his most ineffective games for his country and I sympathise with those that paid good money to get over there and watch that. I do think Terry's legs are starting to go but he did make it up by using a footballing Brain, thought Lescott has a pretty solid Euros, the only thing I would say about Hodgson is that he only had 6 games as manager, I just hoping the current "entertainment" is a quick fix due to being in charge for small amount of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Quite, he made Milner look half decent and if that Henderson fella is the future.....http://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm (in reply to Boycie's post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I defence of Roy, he is still undefeated in 90 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Did we do as well as we hoped, no, did we do as well as we expected ,yes,IMHO. If we want a better team, then first thing we do is fluck of all the foreign players, how do you expect English players to flourish is they don't get a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 We play in a league that is set up more to the physical side than it is to pass and move, our players are not used to keeping the ball. Therefore Italy's game plan, and any other major nation is to close us down, and knowing we have not got players comfortable enough on the ball to retain it. It drained the players engery chasing, and it left them to tired to effect the game for the majority of the game, yes changing grass roots football will help to a certain extent, but until we also change the mentalitiy of our league football then we havent got a hope, unfortunately money and supporter expectation will never let this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucknall Ram Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Did we do as well as we hoped, no, did we do as well as we expected ,yes,IMHO. If we want a better team, then first thing we do is fluck of all the foreign players, how do you expect English players to flourish is they don't get a game. Spot on, there was a few players who are not regulars for their clubs, plus how many English players play aboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I know it's all about opinions and that but I'll say it again, possession, movement, intelligent passing and creativity is what the best teams are all about.. Not much between the teams? Who exactly on our team is world class? Take a look at the top teams in England and tell me who exactly are their better players and where do they come from... Just take a look at our team.. A midfield four of Milner, Parker, Young and Gerrard.. Are you serious? None of them have any sort of ball ability whatsoever.. Milner is a defensive winger, Parker is an absoloute nobody who is seriously overrated, Gerrard when at Liverpool was carried by his ballplaying superior CMs (Lucas, Alonso, Macherano) and Young (do I even need to go there?).. Now look at our strikers, Rooney is decent but he's not in the same bracket as those worldclass players who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck (Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Pirlo, Iniesta, Silva, Ozil).. Welbeck is a 6/10 striker with poor control.. Our defence is solid but offer nothing going forward.. Italy were technically better all over the pitch.. Their movement, passing, running, close control and fullback play were so superior.. England were miles behind technically and it showed.. We don't have world class players, our better players are carried by their better foreigners at club level.. Italys fullbacks bombed on and Abate was far superior to Cole in everyway.. Why does everyone Rave about Cole, he's supposed to be an attacking fullback? Defensively he's great but going forward he's not even in the top 20.. He can't cross, dribble, use his right foot, shoot or pull people out of position.. Glenn Johnson is far superior going forward.. Why doesn't anyone understand this? You are massively over-rating the Italians, player for player we should match them and that's why I cant except 'well at least we tried' attitude, should of been so much better and after the first half we was pathetic! The whole squad bar three play in italy, and we've heard how bad prior to the euros how bad the italian leagues are but obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 23 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Why is grassfoot football only just being talked about? Brazil 2002 we got outplayed by pressing, passing controllable football Portugal 2004 we got outplayed trying to hold onto a lucky 1-0 lead in the first half.. Patient probing passing football was the winner Portugal 2006 Pretty much the same as 2004 Croatia 2008 Now smaller European teams are catching on and still we're not Germany 2010 Seriosuly how much longer can our dour defensive football go on? Italy 2012 OK so 10 years we're finally talking about something that was obvious.. The FA have fecked us over bigtime and the little boom (more like Russian and Arab money) of the PL during the mid 2000s got people excited and believed that pace and power was the be all and end all.. The 4 countries in the semi-final have all got their **** in order and have been practicing their styles to good effect over the past 10 years.. What exactly have we been doing? And another question, those that say Spain are boring yet England are entertaining... We were as bad as Greece.. Other than our RB nearly scoring in the 6th or 7th minute did we even work Buffon at any other moment? I think Gerrard has hit the nail on the head when he said people should be proud of their efforts.. England are no better than Denmark or Croatia so a quarter final place and a narrow loss can be a cause for being proud... The deluded expectations is what will make people disappointed now.. The channge in grassroots football has been discussed for a while, certainly since the World Cup debacle of two years ago. The FA, meanwhile, have delayed the building of the academy at St Georges Park for years now, giving the white elephant that is the new Wembley, a £1 billion soulless bowl, top priority. The FA are to blame in my opinion. Interestingly, someone else raised the point that, after Germany failed at Euro 2000, they actually did something about it (hence the quality in their team now). They could not have done this had all the teams in the Bundesliga worked together for the greater good of the national team. Can you really see the likes of Manchester City or Chelsea being this selfless? Doubt it. In the meantime, what are the likes of Roy Hodgson and Co supposed to do? They can only use the average players that are available to them. I saw someone on Twitter saying how, rather than building a team for 2014, he was 'giving one last hurrah to the Golden Generation'. This is harsh, he can only work with what he's got in such a short space of time, and with so many good young players out injured his hand was dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Whos opening an Olympic England football thread? Come on England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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