Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 So YR, what were your thoughts on the documents shilts provided to back his side up? You seem very vocal in this so I'll be interested to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramexpat Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 though you live in Poland all you see is a microcosm of a massive society err its me who lives in Poland ,, sticks hand up at the back of the room ,, i live in Krakow but my job flys me around Poland every week, and yes i dont look on every street corner, i can only see and comment on what i know and have seen for myself, im also in Germany every 2 weeks and see alot more skinhead racists there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I am just going through them, I haven't commented on the validity of the reports or if they have generalisability or not. However I stand by what I have said, what Shilts stated wasn't racist, I don't believe it was xenophobic either and to proclaim such was wrong and shilts deserves an apology. The reports are relatively old but I haven't commented on the situation in Poland or Ukraine. However the reports seem to be from reputable sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 is that a sign of you lashing out young ram? Insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 err its me who lives in Poland ,, sticks hand up at the back of the room ,, i live in Krakow but my job flys me around Poland every week, and yes i dont look on every street corner, i can only see and comment on what i know and have seen for myself, im also in Germany every 2 weeks and see alot more skinhead racists there Sorry my bad ram expat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 is that a sign of you lashing out young ram? Insults? I am frustrated when people make false claims and cannot seem to tell the difference between stating someone is racist and accusing someone of a racist remark or a racist piece of writing. Also it was a genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Whether I can read was a genuine question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Whether I can read was a genuine question? Yes it really was, the quote you pulled out didn't mention you calling shilts a racist but you thought it did. The same with the other quote and the proclaiming of Shiltons post, as racist it was all simply bizarre and prompted the question of whether you are literate or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 It will be interested to see what you make of them then YR? I'm interested in the Poland report given that is the one that is the basis of the comments about Poland. Interesting that there is actually a paper done after that, but that does not seem to be referenced, and how it compares to the report against England. I'm more interested in the debate that the comments that have followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 It will be interested to see what you make of them then YR? I'm interested in the Poland report given that is the one that is the basis of the comments about Poland. Interesting that there is actually a paper done after that, but that does not seem to be referenced, and how it compares to the report against England. I'm more interested in the debate that the comments that have followed. Well I don't have time to read them now as am revising for a sociology and politics exam. I haven't read any reports on the situation in Ukraine or Poland with regards to race relations and thus have made no comments about the current situation in those countries. The problem with comparing reports is that they can vary in how they gather data, different methodologies, the size of the sample, where the sample was taken and a whole host of other factors can influence the result. Unless the same methodologies and size of sample was the same the reports probably aren't comparable to each other. Just that they show different results, you can compare the validity and representiveness of the methodology to see which report you favour though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Yes it really was, the quote you pulled out didn't mention you calling shilts a racist but you thought it did. The same with the other quote and the proclaiming of Shiltons post, as racist it was all simply bizarre and prompted the question of whether you are literate or not. You absolute child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 You absolute child. Technically I am an adult now and your remark is besides the point. I can have some childish fun sometimes but then again who doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thread closed. At least till people calm down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Right then children, play nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 About Racism. Before you read on you should know this. I don't want to offend anyone but I probably will. But really, really don't want to offend anyone. I'm a racist. In my mind 99.99 percent of people I have met are racist. Most of these people are from Finland so perhaps it is just us. I'm very prejudiced against almost every nationality. Especially of our neighbours from Sweden, Russia and Estonia. Also against people from Somalia, USA, Japan and, well you name it. And of course against people from other parts of Finland too. The thing is I have made good friends from almost every kind of people I'm prejudiced against. And there isn't a place or a religion or skin colour that I would not believe could become one of my best friends over time. But I'm very suspicious of people who are not like me. Or actually who are not me. You have to prove yourself to me before I can drop my suspicion away. Most people I have met are like that. In my opinion. That's why I find it so hard sometimes when people are so raged against racism. I think it is only natural. By this I don't mean I would accept people tossing bananas on the field if a black player is on the field. That's more of people being ****** than racist although they would be also racists. But being a racist for me doesn't mean you have to act hurtful against people you are suspicious of. I dont want to accept any kind of hurtful deeds against any group of people even florest fans but I do believe it is some kind of normal state for people to be prejudiced against people they feel strangers. Don't get too pissed against me but feel free to give your opinion about this. I believe I deserve what I will be getting from you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Cisse, what you are saying is pretty normal. Most people are wary of strangers who look a bit different. Perhaps a few hundred years ago seeing a group of different coloured people meant bad news to you and your tribe/village. The problem in modern civilised countries is when it (racism) is allowed or condoned by the government/police or actively encouraged by newspapers. It makes me laugh when people blame foreigners for taking our jobs but never think it through enough to blame big business and government for allowing immigration for the sole reason of driving down wages and working conditions. Its getting closer now for enough young people not to understand the truth about the rise of Fascism in Nazi Germany, Spain and Italy to allow it all to happen again. We never learn. Our governments won't let us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 ^^ As a species we have an inherent fear of the unknown - this often manifests itself as a distrust of those that are not like us. That in itself isn't racist, or even xenophobic. It's when that fear's twisted into something far more sinister and used to assign superiority of groups over one another that it becomes racist, or when it's used to drive hatred that it becomes xenophobic. I used to think that I might be racist but then I realized that I have nothing against any one particular race of people. Then I thought that I must be xenophobic, but then I realized that I dislike English people as well as foreigners. Turns out that it's actually stupid folks that I don't like. Luckily they're neither a race of people or a nationality, so I'm in the clear. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 In my mind racism is linked too much on skin colour. There are other things too. In the world I live here, there are groups that are oppressed more and more every day. They are sic and handicapped, poor people and fat people. These people have to endure all kinds of things from government, media and their fellow people. That I find disturbing and scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 That doesn't sound like racism to me, racism is disliking somebody based soley on their skin colour. I think what you describe is authoritarianism. An handicap is not a race, nor are overweight people. You can meet people of any race with these handicap or overweight traits. Europe as a whole is plagued by the history of this authoritarian type of behaviour or personality, case in point, Nazism. That's not to say it's an isolated issue, just the most famous. The most recent extreme form of authoritarianism (or fascism, because it's so erratic) is I think in Serbia/Kosovo where relations are still a little strained. I think there is still a little bit of trouble breaking out over there today. For this reason I believe some people are apprehensive of those they do not know, regardless of skin colour, nationality, favourite football club, religion etc.. because you never know what kind of personality you are dealing with until you engage with whoever it is. Sometimes relations can become so hopeless that life becomes chaotic. Most extreme example is war. Common example extreme levels of anxiety with those you don't feel comfortable being around. Maybe you are an introverted personality, this might explain your anxiety with new people. Yes, I am studying psychology. It's great! You've got nothing to worry about, I just think you're confusing the meaning of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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