Brammie Steve Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I hated hearing monkey chants against certain players by the Spanish "fans" several years ago in a friendly against England. I felt strongly that Beckham should have led the team off the pitch in protest. If a team protests in this way the game would probably abandoned. This leads us back to the time when a match has been abandoned because objects were thrown at players by "supporters". Could this lead to disgruntled fans of a losing side deliberately tryind to get matches abandoned by racist chants etc? The German team has been taken to the Polish concentration camp in an attempt to drive home the awful consequences of racial prejudice. What is the answer? Should it be ignored, tolerated or clamped down on as soon as it raises it's hideous head in Euro 2012? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think we have a thread on this. But I'm not threadist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorksopRam Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 In terms of walking off the pitch, personally I think it's a really powerful gesture, but these 'fans' are always gonna give it some with the chants and such. We'd never get through 90 minutes if they walked off every time. It's the racist supporters that need sorting and booting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 There isn't a problem in Poland and the Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Leicester didn't walk off against Forest.............. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jniech Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 The German team has been taken to the GERMAN concentration camp imposed on occupied Poland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I hated hearing monkey chants against certain players by the Spanish "fans" several years ago in a friendly against England. I felt strongly that Beckham should have led the team off the pitch in protest. If a team protests in this way the game would probably abandoned. This leads us back to the time when a match has been abandoned because objects were thrown at players by "supporters". Could this lead to disgruntled fans of a losing side deliberately tryind to get matches abandoned by racist chants etc? The German team has been taken to the Polish concentration camp in an attempt to drive home the awful consequences of racial prejudice. What is the answer? Should it be ignored, tolerated or clamped down on as soon as it raises it's hideous head in Euro 2012? I think the best way to deal with it is not to reward a prestigious international sporting event to a pair of countries that have blatant racist and violence problems specifically around sport. Nice one UEFA The German team has been taken to the GERMAN concentration camp imposed on occupied Poland And there are large contingents of Nazis in Poland, fans who cheer for the Germans and even players that have switched allegiances. "Jew" is even used an insult in these countries. Unbelievable, makes you proud to be European and forward thinking doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 they are all just pointing at the away fans and there is no racism in these countries, shining light people have you gys not seen the documentaries, the copper even told us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I think the best way to deal with it is not to reward a prestigious international sporting event to a pair of countries that have blatant racist and violence problems specifically around sport. Nice one UEFA And there are large contingents of Nazis in Poland, fans who cheer for the Germans and even players that have switched allegiances. "Jew" is even used an insult in these countries. Unbelievable, makes you proud to be European and forward thinking doesn't it? and you have been there, how many times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 and you have been there, how many times? Don't need to, panorama said so, so it must be true ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramexpat Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Shilts dont believe they hype of the media, there is a problem here , but like in any country, yes there are hooligans here as in any country , but as for large contingents of Nazis in Poland, fans who cheer for the Germans , thats not true at all , there is some but again its a minority like in the Uk or any other country , thats like saying England should not have the Olympics because the BNP and other crazy groups exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I think the best way to deal with it is not to reward a prestigious international sporting event to a pair of countries that have blatant racist and violence problems specifically around sport. Nice one UEFA And there are large contingents of Nazis in Poland, fans who cheer for the Germans and even players that have switched allegiances. "Jew" is even used an insult in these countries. Unbelievable, makes you proud to be European and forward thinking doesn't it? @Ramexpat - could you be a bit more vocal on this - how long have you lived and worked out here? @Shilts - I expected better from you. proud to be forward thinking? where is that in your posts? That post is just written trying to get a bite right? You could not possbily have done any research on that. Large contingents of Nazis? Where? Do you know anything about the history of Poland at all? Fans who cheer Germans are you joking? Jew as an insult? Not once in 15 years. Ramexpat I think lives in Krakow which has a rather nice Jewish quarter - RE - have you ever heard someone call someone a jew as an insult? Players switching allegiances - are you saying they did that cos they've got Nazi tendancies and they wanted to play for Germany or because they were embarassed about their own country so switched? Either way it doesn't look good. By the way Podolski.and Klose were born of Polish parents IN Germany. They grew up in and chose to play for Germany. No british born player has ever done that? However it's written and however it's slanted - that's 4 or 5 lines of blinded , false and blatant racism from you. How come the double standards? And before the old "he's saying there is no racism in Poland" is trotted out. Have a word with yourselves and read what has been written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramexpat Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 @Ramexpat - could you be a bit more vocal on this - how long have you lived and worked out here? Jew as an insult? Not once in 15 years. Ramexpat I think lives in Krakow which has a rather nice Jewish quarter - RE - have you ever heard someone call someone a jew as an insult? Ive been in Krakow now for 5 years , the Jewish quarter here in Krakow is a nice part of town , even the football hooligans go out drinking there , not to look for trouble but because there is hardly any divide anymore between Jews and Thugs, the only football problems i have seen here is between local rivalries , i.e Wisla and Cracovia and they really go for it, but racism is NOT a issue here, no matter what the color of your skin is or if you are a Jew , like you said Jews are respected here not hated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 @Ramexpat - could you be a bit more vocal on this - how long have you lived and worked out here? @Shilts - I expected better from you. proud to be forward thinking? where is that in your posts? That post is just written trying to get a bite right? You could not possbily have done any research on that. Large contingents of Nazis? Where? Do you know anything about the history of Poland at all? Fans who cheer Germans are you joking? Jew as an insult? Not once in 15 years. Ramexpat I think lives in Krakow which has a rather nice Jewish quarter - RE - have you ever heard someone call someone a jew as an insult? Players switching allegiances - are you saying they did that cos they've got Nazi tendancies and they wanted to play for Germany or because they were embarassed about their own country so switched? Either way it doesn't look good. By the way Podolski.and Klose were born of Polish parents IN Germany. They grew up in and chose to play for Germany. No british born player has ever done that? However it's written and however it's slanted - that's 4 or 5 lines of blinded , false and blatant racism from you. How come the double standards? And before the old "he's saying there is no racism in Poland" is trotted out. Have a word with yourselves and read what has been written. Do not call me a racist- I am forward thinking in the fact that I am denouncing racism, how can you construe that in any other manner? I am not saying that players switched for racist reasons- don't be ridiculous. Just that given the history of what had happened they would have more than a little problem representing a country that had inflicted such atrocity on their home land- maybe the issue lies with their parents rather than themselves. Before you start spouting off, calling me a racist (because I have the audacity to point out instances of fascism !) maybe do some real research and not take the words of one White, non- Jewish person as evidence that there isn't a problem with racism/ anti Semitism in 2 countries that you seem to know little about yourself And yes, I can possibly research this- Whilst I believe that the media is being slightly sensationalist there is a problem. SO you cannot accuse me of being blinded by the media I have put a selection of peer reviewed, scientific papers below. You see, you can actually research these things. Can I call you a facist now as you obviously support the way these countries turn a blind eye? Or are you going to retract the racist statement? [url=http://www.stiftung-evz.de/w/files/hate-crime/poland_helsinki_english.pdf]http://www.stiftung-evz.de/w/files/hate-crime/poland_helsinki_english.pdf (in this one there is a public reference to Obama being elected as "the end of civilisation"- this was made by a Polish member of parliament). [url=http://munin.uit.no/handle/10037/2818]http://munin.uit.no/handle/10037/2818- alarm at the surge of racist violence against minorities in Ukraine. [url=http://www.politicalperspectives.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/vol-4-2-2010-Rechitsky.pdf]http://www.politicalperspectives.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/vol-4-2-2010-Rechitsky.pdf Social Exclusion and violence against immigrants in Ukraine [url=http://hudoc.ecri.coe.int/XMLEcri/ENGLISH/Cycle_03/03_CbC_eng/POL-CbC-III-2005-25-ENG.pdf]http://hudoc.ecri.coe.int/XMLEcri/ENGLISH/Cycle_03/03_CbC_eng/POL-CbC-III-2005-25-ENG.pdf Official papers on racism, hate crimes and the need to fight anti Semitism in Poland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Some interesting reasearch there shilts, I only briefly looked at the last report, and was interested to know how that compares to the fourth one they have done since the 2006 one you have done, and also the one that was done in England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Great work finding a white paper from 2004 shitls. Really forward thinking. Do you want me to go and find some racist comments from members of the english political arena over the last 15 years? bloody hell our Prince, the husband of the queen is renowned for it. Since when were Politicians renowned for their tactful comments? I wont coment on any other part of your post as I really found it offensive. I am not commenting on the Ukraine as i have never been. I am commenting on Poland and for you to be so shallow that you think my views are built on ramexpat as my only sample. I have lived here for 15 years, speak the language and have a Polsih family, for you to say what you are saying is racist and deeply offensive to me and my family . I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed. that you are still trying to convince people that racism is a real issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Great work finding a white paper from 2004 shitls. Really forward thinking. Do you want me to go and find some racist comments from members of the english political arena over the last 15 years? bloody hell our Prince, the husband of the queen is renowned for it. Since when were Politicians renowned for their tactful comments? I wont coment on any other part of your post as I really found it offensive. I am not commenting on the Ukraine as i have never been. I am commenting on Poland and for you to be so shallow that you think my views are built on ramexpat as my only sample. I have lived here for 15 years, speak the language and have a Polsih family, for you to say what you are saying is racist and deeply offensive to me and my family . I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed. that you are still trying to convince people that racism is a real issue here. It isn't racist, it is using the information that I have available to me. I have been looking at graffiti that is daubed on walls around Poland that has been there for years and not removed. I have an auntie who is Polish and doesn't talk about her country as she moved when she was young and can't really remember it. We had (sadly no longer with us) a close family friend who was a Polish Jew and came to the UK and refused to go back because of the persecution. As I say, I am only using the information I have to hand- The most up to date information is all through the media and I didn't want to use it as it constantly deemed biased. I cannot believe that I am deemed racist for recognising racist problems in another country by using media, scientific and governmental reports! If it is all roses and kittens then I apologise but to call someone racist for forming an opinion based on reliable and differing sources then you need to pull your head out. We can't all have the advantage of seeing things first hand. I am sorry to have trusted scientific, and governmental papers- I wonder what else is incorrect that we hold to be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Anyone remember 'Question Time' with BNP leader Nick Griffin? Jack Straw stumbling through his words about how black and white people are cousins? One lady of ethnic origin remarking how white people are descendants of neanderthals. Was quite embarrassing, considering these people are our representatives. It's an issue, alright. In Britain, Holland, France, Poland, Ukraine etc.. Saying it isn't is denial. There's a worrying trend all over Europe of fascist groups gaining an extra notch on the volume of their voice. Directly related to the financial crisis, this is when people look for something to feel a belonging. They feel disconnected from the mainstream so retaliate. It's a massive problem. We had the London riots last year which spread up north to Manchester whilst Birmingham had it's problems as well. Slightly off topic there but it's not directly related to euro 2012, this problem. Like I've said in the other thread, Poland and Ukraine just have the spotlight on them. Maybe it's diversion tactics from our own country about our own problems. But saying that, if we're to be a unified Europe, it's a European problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 People need to lay off shilts. At the end of the day we can only form opinions on the evidence we have seen, Shilts has formed his on government reports, personal testimony of family members and other sources. That to me is a good way to form an opinion, he sounds open to persuasion instead of being steadfast to his position as well. PBW I think you owe shilts a sincere apology because what you stated was deeply offensive, you can't go spouting off that someone is racist because they have a different view of race relations in a country than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramexpat Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Everybody has a opinion and thats what forums are for , but branding Poland and Ukraine racists like the TV shows in England have done is not right , you cant put everyone under the same light, kind of ironic that the country that is making the most fuss about racism in Poland and Ukraine is the country that has Racisim scandels in there own football teams and England also has a racist national political movement ,, erm pot and kettle come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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