CumbrianRam Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This time last year, on the back of their first "double" over neighbours Derby County in more than two decades, Nottingham Forest were fourth in the Championship, at shorter odds than Norwich and Swansea to begin this season in the Premier League. Derby, who had been fourth in November, were in the middle of a long slide that would see them finish 19th, their gloom eased only when Forest came a cropper in the play-offs. Forest return to Pride Park on Sunday in somewhat different shape. Where their fans last year wore T-shirts celebrating a 5-2 romp at the City Ground, they will arrive instead reflecting on one win from 11 matches, in nine of which Forest have failed even to score. They are 23rd, five points from safety. Derby, who had lost only one in eight before Tuesday's slip-up at Barnsley, sit comfortably mid-table. Winners in Nottingham in August, despite losing their goalkeeper to a second-minute red card, Derby are strong favourites to exact double revenge. Yet this potential embarrassment is the least of Forest's worries. For the last two years they have been losing £1m per month and their disenchanted former chairman, Nigel Doughty, whose personal fortune kept them afloat for more than a decade, has said he will not fork out beyond existing commitments. Relegation to League One for the second time in seven years might plunge the twice European champions into long-term decline. "Financially, it would a massive blow," Doughty's successor, the former Forest player and manager, Frank Clark, said. "The owner has been bankrolling a wage bill the club cannot afford and we have to reduce that. But if we are relegated, all our revenues would go down. We are desperate to stay up." Doughty withdrew his support after his decision to replace the successful but truculent Billy Davies with former England coach Steve McClaren failed miserably. Doughty no longer even attends matches and does not welcome attempts to change his mind. Technically, Forest owe him £75m and while it is a sum he is unlikely to want repaid, at least until the club is sold, the picture is bleak, nonetheless. Taking a lead from Europe's governing body, Uefa, the Championship is drawing up its own rules for financial fair play (FFP). Clubs will spend only what they can afford, particularly in terms of wages, the consensus being that 60 per cent of turnover is a sensible ceiling. Forest's wage bill for 2010-11 was 109 per cent. "The game cannot carry on paying the salaries it has been doing, certainly below the Premier League," Clark said. "This will force clubs to address that. And it will force agents and players to become more realistic, to bring some sanity into negotiations." The irony is that one of the Football League's key FFP strategists is the chief executive of Derby, the American Tom Glick. Under his stewardship on behalf of Derby's transatlantic owners, Derby's debts have fallen from £30m to half that and a wage bill that stood at £16m when Nigel Clough became manager three years ago has been cut by 40 per cent. Of more than 40 players on his original roster, only two remain. Derby's six major investors – all franchise owners in the profit-making world of American sport – at first saw Derby as a brand with which they could profit from the Premier League's global popularity. Relegation in 2008 with a record low points tally kicked that idea into the long grass but they have stood by the club, funded their shortfalls and Glick has executed their drive towards self-sufficiency so effectively that Derby's operating loss last year was a mere £2.16m. "We did underestimate how difficult it would be to get back to the Premier League," Glick said. "We thought that with the benefit of parachute payments it would be easier. "When Nigel arrived it was clear that if we did not go straight back up we would need to cut our cloth accordingly. Now the owners just want a sustainable model they can enjoy. We are all hooked on English football. Nigel has done a fantastic job. We have a similar outlook for creating long-term success. His focus is on more than just this week, this month, this season." Derby's form under Clough has not always been impressive. Despite his name and heritage, his popularity – and that of the owners – has fluctuated. Speculation over his future gathered pace, in particular, with McClaren's resignation at Forest, when many at the Trent end of the A52 hoped their former striker might restore his old allegiance. Glick admits the football played by Clough's transitional team has been "mediocre" at times. Yet they tied him to a new contract in October, in the same week Forest appointed Steve Cotterill. "We have had our ups and downs but, luckily, we have held our nerve and made decisions that turned out to be the right ones," Glick said. "We were convinced that Nigel had the attributes to take the club forward and we have been increasingly confident in him even during the tough times." The idea of looking to Derby's example would stick in the craw for most Forest fans and, sensibly, Glick does not presume to offer advice. "If our model is right for others is for them to judge," he said. "All I can say is it works for us. Financial fair play will lead clubs to change their behaviour. It will place a premium on making good decisions rather than having the biggest wallet, and that is not a bad thing." But Clark, who says there is "no chance" of Davies returning to the club and that Cotterill has his full confidence, concedes that Forest will have to follow Derby's path. "We will comply with the fair play rules in the format they are likely to take and the way Nigel Clough has reshaped the Derby squad within financial constraints would be the way we are looking to go," he says. "But we want to do it in the Championship and the players will have to go to Derby believing they can get a result and get from it the momentum to stay in this division." [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/ouch-forest-forced-to-concede-that-the-future-is-the-derby-way-6329938.html]http://www.independe...ay-6329938.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Love every word of it. Please post this on the Forest forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb9LJI7YrtU Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyJumper Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Whether it needs to be posted on the Forest forum is one thing, there a good many on this forum that would do well to read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The Derby way? What rubbish, did we go down to League 1 to sort ourselves out? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Whether it needs to be posted on the Forest forum is one thing, there a good many on this forum that would do well to read this. 'the owners just want a sustainable model we can enjoy' I don't think we want a reminder of our lack of ambition thanks, we know that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 So the 'Global Brand' idea went almost immediately..... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> Thanks for telling us. While i respect what they do,i wish that they would tell us a bit more about what happening, the truth, not just spin,and guff to sell tickets. Is the future youth thro our accademy etc .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 'the owners just want a sustainable model we can enjoy' I don't think we want a reminder of our lack of ambition thanks, we know that already. Yes, I picked up on that phrase as well Curb but to be honest they aren't going to enjoy mid table for ever because the fans won't have it. Most realists understand that the club has had to cut the cloth to fit and have been prepared to go with it. I think longer term, ie starting next season, we really do need to push on or even the silent majority will not be too happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 What is "ambition" to you lot? Is it paying wages we cant afford to the tune Forest have by losing 1 million a month? Do me a favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 'the owners just want a sustainable model we can enjoy' I don't think we want a reminder of our lack of ambition thanks, we know that already. Errrr..... so you want an unsustainable model we can't enjoy? BIzarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 "For the last two years they have been losing £1m per month" They should be thankful Billy didn't take them up. With his ability to sign average players on massive amounts of money they would be losing about £10m per month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElBeef Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thats a brilliant article, says it all really. Things in Football twist and turn all the time. Sucess comes and goes through time and it will come again. Its just how long everyone is going to be patient enough to wait. My main concern over last 10 years is that a surely the club accoutant raised concerns over the clubs debt and that someone would have ignored it. If you keep turning your back on a financial problem it doesn't go away it gets bigger. To then address that issue takes years and years to sort out, oh and then throw in running a football club at the same time. Never mind the finances you have to try and keep all of us happy at the same time. Its not lack of ambition on my part at all, its a little slice of realism that has to be taken into account. We all want success...but at any cost, nah. I will wait and while im waiting i will going to every home game and get the most out of it. What else is there to do on a Saturday afternoon? Now if we were all Arsenal fans then i think we would have some real concerns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I agree it is has been frustrating that the board have not pad for big transfers. I do however agree that it is time that Football clubs take the control away from the agents. The Bosman ruling was key to the current issue as agents could continually negotiate new terms and higher wages or use the threat that the player will go for nowt at the end of his contract. Over the years more and more control has gone to the agents and away from clubs and for clubs to show 'ambition' this has meant that they have had at times live outside of their means. Agents and wages as become a cancer within football and has led to a situation where clubs are placed at risk of going under. As much as I am pleased that Forest are struggling but in real terms losing £1million per month is a very sad state of affairs and if I was a scum fan I would be cncrned that there would be no club in the near future. I have to say even though I have them with a passion like most fans I would not want Forest to go under and miss out on the buzz that is building up before the game on Sunday. Football is all about these special games coming up. We too over the last 15yrs have had our own financial problems, administration etc. However how much we are frustrated with the board if the club had continued to be run has it had in the past I have doubts we would be in this league and I feel that we could have been in the position of Leeds a few seasons ago or even worse like Preston, Sheffield Wednesday and Portsmouth being issued with a wind up order. Yes at times it is frustrating but ask yourselves this would you prefer to be frustrated that the club for some is not miving forward quick enough or frustrated or angry that the club has folded if we continued in the same manner as before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Maybe part of the 'lack of ambition' could be partly due to 'good negoiating'. If we had paid 2 million + for Fielding, Shackell, Barker and over 1 million for say Bryson and Bailey we would all be really frustrated as big spending Derby should be much higher in the league. Clough out sentiment would be much higher but everyone would be much more happy with a board who were splashing the cash. The fact we've been able to bring in some good players for not too much money is a real credit to the board and to the management team. The youth team set up seems to be really producing the goods at the moment. The posts ignorantly moaning about the coaches seem to have dried up as players such as Theo have improved beyond anyone's hopes. We don't even have many injuries at the moment so maybe the 'useless' physios are even good now. Tyson was probably meant to be our main forward this season and he suggested he could be against Barnsley. And our main goalscorer Davies from the early part of the season was really unlucky to be out so long. If we stay lucky with injuries, it could be an exciting end to the season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I dont really mind what Glick is doing, except the lying and misleading comments he makes. It's Clough that i dont like, we've got a board planning long term looking to build something for the future, but a manager with basic tactics and style who appreciates a work horse over a flair player. Although the standard of players has improved since he got here, the style of play hasnt (apart from one point last season where we looked quality but Clough has got rid of all those creative players that achieved that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I dont really mind what Glick is doing, except the lying and misleading comments he makes. It's Clough that i dont like, we've got a board planning long term looking to build something for the future, but a manager with basic tactics and style who appreciates a work horse over a flair player. Although the standard of players has improved since he got here, the style of play hasnt (apart from one point last season where we looked quality but Clough has got rid of all those creative players that achieved that). yeah, can't believe he 'got rid' of commons. struggling to think of who all thoe flair players were during that spell. kuqi? guy from albion? bueno on loan? cwyka in his 3 good games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 yeah, can't believe he 'got rid' of commons. struggling to think of who all thoe flair players were during that spell. kuqi? guy from albion? bueno on loan? cwyka in his 3 good games? You just named them, well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Someone mentioned Bosman, and when that rule came in it was a moment that changed how football would be run, some say for the good, others may not. FPP will have the same effect, however it will, imo, reduce player salaries, and help clubs survive. With FFP coming in in one form or another, the realisation by the Board that bouncing straight back and the tough nature of the championship have caused them to readjust their long term plan. Quote 'the owners just want a sustainable model we can enjoy' if you look at the key word, sustainable basically means “maintain", "support", or "endure” it does not mean there is no ambition, far from it, they are looking for long term development, maintaining the existance of the club and will achieve success through planning growth and making sure we are not losing a million a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I dont really mind what Glick is doing, except the lying and misleading comments he makes. It's Clough that i dont like, we've got a board planning long term looking to build something for the future, but a manager with basic tactics and style who appreciates a work horse over a flair player. Although the standard of players has improved since he got here, the style of play hasnt (apart from one point last season where we looked quality but Clough has got rid of all those creative players that achieved that). He 'got rid' of players because he had to. We've been through this a thousand times, you have some ridiculous problem with Clough because we don't play pretty football all the time. If this is as bad as you've seen Derby, you're a lucky sod. Honestly mate, I've not seen you put one positive post on here. If I'm wrong then I apologise but I can't remember seeing it. You might not like the bloke and no one can make you, but the fact we're in a better position overall, as a club, with less resources (in terms of both employees and financials) show the bloke is doing a good job. Opinions are opinions, but the facts are plain to see. Must be horrible supporting a team you never stop moaning about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 yeah, can't believe he 'got rid' of commons. struggling to think of who all thoe flair players were during that spell. kuqi? guy from albion? bueno on loan? cwyka in his 3 good games? First time I have all heard Kuqi classed as a "flair" player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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