Jump to content

Ouch. Forest forced to concede that the future is the Derby way


CumbrianRam

Recommended Posts

You just named them, well done.

Are you sure, because I was under the impression that Commons wanted to leave and the 3 loan players were erm on loan. He let Cwyka go, but as I said, hasn't he only had 3 games that are any good? There must be other wonderful flair players that Clough let go that I just can't remember...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 35
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Thats a brilliant article, says it all really.

Things in Football twist and turn all the time. Sucess comes and goes through time and it will come again. Its just how long everyone is going to be patient enough to wait.

My main concern over last 10 years is that a surely the club accoutant raised concerns over the clubs debt and that someone would have ignored it. If you keep turning your back on a financial problem it doesn't go away it gets bigger. To then address that issue takes years and years to sort out, oh and then throw in running a football club at the same time. Never mind the finances you have to try and keep all of us happy at the same time.

Its not lack of ambition on my part at all, its a little slice of realism that has to be taken into account. We all want success...but at any cost, nah. I will wait and while im waiting i will going to every home game and get the most out of it. What else is there to do on a Saturday afternoon?

Now if we were all Arsenal fans then i think we would have some real concerns!!

FACTS:-

Net debt at 30/6/08 £21.811m

Inputs into achieving this figure:-

LOG won promotion that generated the massive income that enabled this figure to be achieved.

New owners put in no new cash of their own during this period,yet splashed out in January 08,thus making the figure higher than it would otherwise have been.

Conclusion:- In 2 years the LOG massively reduced debts (whilst managing to run a football club).

Net debt at 30/6/10 £19.129m

Reduction in debt from 1/7/08 to 30/6/10 = £21.811m-£19.129m =£2.682m

Period of time:- 2 years.

Draw your own conclusions.Figures are extracted from the published accounts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FACTS:-

Net debt at 30/6/08 £21.811m

Inputs into achieving this figure:-

LOG won promotion that generated the massive income that enabled this figure to be achieved.

New owners put in no new cash of their own during this period,yet splashed out in January 08,thus making the figure higher than it would otherwise have been.

Conclusion:- In 2 years the LOG massively reduced debts (whilst managing to run a football club).

Net debt at 30/6/10 £19.129m

Reduction in debt from 1/7/08 to 30/6/10 = £21.811m-£19.129m =£2.682m

Period of time:- 2 years.

Draw your own conclusions.Figures are extracted from the published accounts.

Is that the period in which we had two payments of £11m in parachute payments?

£2.682m Remarkable achievement, still at least we didn't get anywhere near promotion, so all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He 'got rid' of players because he had to. We've been through this a thousand times, you have some ridiculous problem with Clough because we don't play pretty football all the time. If this is as bad as you've seen Derby, you're a lucky sod.

Honestly mate, I've not seen you put one positive post on here. If I'm wrong then I apologise but I can't remember seeing it. You might not like the bloke and no one can make you, but the fact we're in a better position overall, as a club, with less resources (in terms of both employees and financials) show the bloke is doing a good job. Opinions are opinions, but the facts are plain to see.

Must be horrible supporting a team you never stop moaning about.

Admittedly he had to get rid of Commons, but he showed no interest in keeping hold of Bueno or Cykwa. I've got 'some ridiculous problem' with Clough cos he doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes, we still play the same style away from home as we did when he got here and it still doesnt work. It's nothing personal against Clough, i dont like any manager that is negative or rates the kind of players that Clough does.I enjoy teams that attack and play passing football, after three relatively unsuccessful years of negativity, he still has the same approach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is that the period in which we had two payments of £11m in parachute payments?

£2.682m Remarkable achievement, still at least we didn't get anywhere near promotion, so all good.

Yep.The £10m+ loan was repaid out of the first,but they promptly reborrowed £9m+,mainly secured against the second one.Some might say that they had to because the first was mainly gobbled up.My counter to this is that if they'd not splashed out big time in Jan 08,then they mightn't have needed to borrow so much.Although they eventually injected £7.7m in that year,I'd be fairly confident that this came after the £9m loan.About £5m of debt was eventually repaid on top of the £10m -if their own cash injection had come earlier,then logic suggests that they would only have needed to borrow £4m,rather than £9m.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Admittedly he had to get rid of Commons, but he showed no interest in keeping hold of Bueno or Cykwa. I've got 'some ridiculous problem' with Clough cos he doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes, we still play the same style away from home as we did when he got here and it still doesnt work. It's nothing personal against Clough, i dont like any manager that is negative or rates the kind of players that Clough does.I enjoy teams that attack and play passing football, after three relatively unsuccessful years of negativity, he still has the same approach.

IMO we have a massive cash flow problem at this time of year.

For 3 seasons on the trot now we've tried desperately to get rid of one of our top players at the end of the Jan transfer window, Hulse - Commons - Green.

In Commons case he gave an interview in October saying he didn't want to move, was settled in the area and wanted to tie up a deal ASAP so he could concentrate on his football. Then he suddenly lost interest and was sold a couple of months later to Celtic. Was he told to tell his agent to find a club? It's speculation but after that we hardly saw Bueno playing well again, and Cywka, the other one in the trio that was playing so well, ended up being hauled over the coals by a very frustrated Clough.

This season we've seen Green touted for sale even though he also said he doesn't want to leave.

All speculation but it fits as far as I can see, and it explains why we look to be a selling club every winter, and then come summer there seems to be a transfer kitty again.

Our situation must be worse than others as our large percentage of ST's means that nearly all our income comes in between April and August.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO we have a massive cash flow problem at this time of year.

For 3 seasons on the trot now we've tried desperately to get rid of one of our top players at the end of the Jan transfer window, Hulse - Commons - Green.

In Commons case he gave an interview in October saying he didn't want to move, was settled in the area and wanted to tie up a deal ASAP so he could concentrate on his football. Then he suddenly lost interest and was sold a couple of months later to Celtic. Was he told to tell his agent to find a club? It's speculation but after that we hardly saw Bueno playing well again, and Cywka, the other one in the trio that was playing so well, ended up being hauled over the coals by a very frustrated Clough.

This season we've seen Green touted for sale even though he also said he doesn't want to leave.

All speculation but it fits as far as I can see, and it explains why we look to be a selling club every winter, and then come summer there seems to be a transfer kitty again.

Our situation must be worse than others as our large percentage of ST's means that nearly all our income comes in between April and August.

I think you need to be careful of this type of sweeping comment. Clough and Glick have stated that they have offered him a deal. They have not put him on the open market but because he has not signed a new contract and if a club came in for him then they would have to consider it for the benefit of the team. However publicly Clough from a number of media sources including live interview after the Barnsley game is happy that he is here for the remainder of the season and will be back in the squad on Sunday. The club have stated the offer will not be changed and at the end of the day it is down to the player whether he signs or not.

In respect of Commons this is another one in respect of having to be careful re comments. Yes Commons said he was settled and wanted a new deal. If Glick really wanted him to go why publicly say after he was sold that they matched what Kris Commons asked for however it was abundantly clear he was not going to sign. The link for this statement is [url=http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10270~2278325,00.html]http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10270~2278325,00.html now where was the counter claim denying this from Commons.

In respect of Hulse and Bueno. Hulse nearly went the season before for £4million but could not sort out personal terms. He was coming up to the end of his contract he was on a lot more than his new contract would have been and would not have signed a new deal. He was also out injured and when QPR came offering a deal he wanted although not fit to play he was always going to take it. Especially at his age and when he went how many games did he play and has he played since joining them. I think he played his first 1st team game this season only this week. Also the loan fee of Bueno who arrived after he left appeared to be expensive and the money from Hulse I should imagine went on Bueno. Bueno was great when he first arrived as he was new and his skill caught teams out. Burnley targetted him early on and he came off in the first half and after that opposition never gave him the chance and when we needed battlers to help secure results he went missing.

Commons/Hulse/Bueno are old arguments and they have been discussed and argued to death the ones who are clearlyanti-clough keep bringing this up. However in respect of comments being made on Green and Commons in respect of how we are wanting to sell these players caution has to be considered as contradicting comments are out in the public domain made by the people who are having a pop at. The players are not disputing these statements either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rotherham, you say the offer won't change? My understanding was that there is no offer on the table, green said no in the summer and since then there have been no further talks, and clough has said they may relook based on what happened in the transfer window.

There are also other players out of contract in the summer, as yet have any talks happened?

I may have missed something, but that was the impression I was under and couldn't find anything to confirm either way on the net.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rams boss Nigel Clough has said he may opt to cash in on the Republic of Ireland international if any bids come in during the January transfer window.

But Green, who joined Derby on a Bosman free transfer from Doncaster Rovers in the summer of 2008, is keen to extend his stay at Pride Park.

The Rams say they offered the player a new deal in the summer, when he was injured, but the matter has gone no further up to now.

"I definitely want to stay," said the 28-year-old.

"My family is settled down here, I'm enjoying my football again and it's a great club to be at.

"Hopefully, we'll start talking at some point but I'm not too sure what's happening.

"If they do offer me something, I'll look at it and see what happens.

Well green didn't know about it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And this offer has never been withdrawn and will not change as it would mean that future plans within the budget will have to change.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16431835]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16431835 relates to Clough stating he does not want to lose him

[url=http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Sport/Derby-County-FC/Clough-Its-Green-for-go-if-the-price-is-right-04012012.htm]http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Sport/Derby-County-FC/Clough-Its-Green-for-go-if-the-price-is-right-04012012.htm comments on that Clough and Derby asked him if he wanted to stop last April and May and nothing happened

[url=http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Derby-County-boss-expecting-offers-loan-window/story-15120172-detail/story.html]http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Derby-County-boss-expecting-offers-loan-window/story-15120172-detail/story.html Is an article where Clough admits that a contract has not been specifically offered as they attempted to sit down with Paul Green and his representative (a blood sucking leach called an agent). However his blood sucking leach (as I will refer to him as) on behalf of Paul Green said "No".

Now before you say anything I know Green has also come out and said he wants to stop at Derby [url=http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Green-keen-extend-contract-Rams/story-14323308-detail/story.html]http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Green-keen-extend-contract-Rams/story-14323308-detail/story.html which also includes that the RAMS did offer a contract in the summer. He has stated that if a contract was offered he would look at it. Now call me a sceptic but does this not smack as similar to Commons coming out in the news stating wants to stop however unless he communicates this with the club it means Jack.

Clough today is waiting from his blood sucking leach to indicate whether they want to talk about contract. However the warning from the club is that he would have to fall in line with the budget and also in line so that future plans of clough are not jeopardised. This is called football management on Cloughs behalf.

I mentioned earlier about the power of agents both over clubs and players. Mancinni commented on it this week in respect of Tevez [url=http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/888913-roberto-mancini-slams-player-agents-amid-carlos-tevez-transfer-fiasco]http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/888913-roberto-mancini-slams-player-agents-amid-carlos-tevez-transfer-fiasco . Within this he highlights agents should support players within in clubs. My view is that if Green is happy here and wants to stay and by all accounts that are in the public I think Clough would rather keep him than lose him, then they should adopt an approach which supports the player. Approach the club discuss what is on offer talk to his client and explain the offer and not obstruct the process as it would seem is happening in this matter. There is I believe an ethical code for agents however if there is they are not adhering to it and are thinking more of their cut of the deal than their actual clients.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rams boss Nigel Clough has said he may opt to cash in on the Republic of Ireland international if any bids come in during the January transfer window.

But Green, who joined Derby on a Bosman free transfer from Doncaster Rovers in the summer of 2008, is keen to extend his stay at Pride Park.

The Rams say they offered the player a new deal in the summer, when he was injured, but the matter has gone no further up to now.

"I definitely want to stay," said the 28-year-old.

"My family is settled down here, I'm enjoying my football again and it's a great club to be at.

"Hopefully, we'll start talking at some point but I'm not too sure what's happening.

"If they do offer me something, I'll look at it and see what happens.

Well green didn't know about it?

They said it was Green's representative who rejected it. I guess that Green would have known about it or he should get a new agent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if the club want him to stay, why not offer to sit down and discuss, the Commons deal I believe was completely different as the outcome suited both parties.

I agree that agents to not help, but clough stated that if we did not sell him in the transfer window we will sit down and see what we can work out, why not prior or during the transfer window?

Whatever has happened, I doubt we will ever know the true story, and I'm sure each side has their own take on what is/has happened.

The good thing is he is still a derby player, and hopefully will help us to an easy victory Sunday :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you need to be careful of this type of sweeping comment. Clough and Glick have stated that they have offered him a deal. They have not put him on the open market but because he has not signed a new contract and if a club came in for him then they would have to consider it for the benefit of the team. However publicly Clough from a number of media sources including live interview after the Barnsley game is happy that he is here for the remainder of the season and will be back in the squad on Sunday. The club have stated the offer will not be changed and at the end of the day it is down to the player whether he signs or not.

In respect of Commons this is another one in respect of having to be careful re comments. Yes Commons said he was settled and wanted a new deal. If Glick really wanted him to go why publicly say after he was sold that they matched what Kris Commons asked for however it was abundantly clear he was not going to sign. The link for this statement is [url=http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10270~2278325,00.html]http://www.dcfc.co.u...2278325,00.html now where was the counter claim denying this from Commons.

In respect of Hulse and Bueno. Hulse nearly went the season before for £4million but could not sort out personal terms. He was coming up to the end of his contract he was on a lot more than his new contract would have been and would not have signed a new deal. He was also out injured and when QPR came offering a deal he wanted although not fit to play he was always going to take it. Especially at his age and when he went how many games did he play and has he played since joining them. I think he played his first 1st team game this season only this week. Also the loan fee of Bueno who arrived after he left appeared to be expensive and the money from Hulse I should imagine went on Bueno. Bueno was great when he first arrived as he was new and his skill caught teams out. Burnley targetted him early on and he came off in the first half and after that opposition never gave him the chance and when we needed battlers to help secure results he went missing.

Commons/Hulse/Bueno are old arguments and they have been discussed and argued to death the ones who are clearlyanti-clough keep bringing this up. However in respect of comments being made on Green and Commons in respect of how we are wanting to sell these players caution has to be considered as contradicting comments are out in the public domain made by the people who are having a pop at. The players are not disputing these statements either.

You've just shot yourself in the foot, have a look in the DET tonight WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED PAUL GREEN A NEW CONTRACT.

You just lap it up from them don't you?

Oh well, no need to discuss further.

Why do I need to be careful? Am I in trouble with the happy clapper police? lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've just shot yourself in the foot, have a look in the DET tonight WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED PAUL GREEN A NEW CONTRACT.

You just lap it up from them don't you?

Oh well, no need to discuss further.

Why do I need to be careful? Am I in trouble with the happy clapper police? lol.

Read my post again I highlighted that Clough has said that they have not offered a deal directly as when they asked him if he wanted to stop in the summer and discuss it his representative said no. At NO POINT have they said they wanted him to leave APART from Tuesday due to the deadline date Green has played EVERY MINUTE since his return from injury. If the club did want him to go why then did we not get a loan in at the beginning of January. We got a loan in at the end of January as clubs had shown interest and we did not want to be caught out if Green decided to leave.Should really read posts before criticising.

I highlighted each article in my post and indicated that nothing specific was offered. However the offer of a contract was presented to him and his representative but his representative did not want to discuss it. I have seen nothing that suggests they want rid of him quite the opposite. As some are quite happy to slag Clough off when he decides he does not want a player he is never seen again in the team or squad, has this happened with Green.

Clough has stated he is glad that he is still there and is back in the squad for tomorrow. Now for a manager who is reported to be stubborn, unfair to players, holds grudges surely as he had not agreed to talk in the summmer or approached for a new discussions and it was unsure he would stop SURELY with Cloughs reputed reputation indicated by some he would not been in the side. Clough only wants people 100% dedicated, untalented players with no skills and no championship qualities at all as some are quite happy to tell us.

All I was saying is don't pass of opinions as facts it has a habit of coming back to bite you especially when judging other people without the full facts as newspapers and news never report anything wrong do they!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...