ianm Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I'm sorry, I think this is drivel, we'll have to disagree on this. So car parks are empty during holidays, is it beoynd the realms of possibility they do their plannnig at home? Go to any school after 4 and there are no teachers there...I'm sorry this is just not true I'm not saying all teachers work as they should, but plenty do. Your generalisations are laughable. Most teachers do not work in holidays there is no obligation for them to do so, some conscientious of the brethren may do a bit but they will be in a large minority. I can assure you again you can believe me or not, at Primary Schools teachers are gone by 4, maybe a bit later in Secondary school. Possibly my work was with Primary Schools but I can't imagine too much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 As a PGCE student I have first hand experience of the workload of teachers. It's huge. The vast majority of teachers at the school I'm at are there until well after 4pm the school day ends well before that. Teachers always need to take books home for marking, mist having several classes to mark for. And then there is lesson planning. In my opinion based on first hand experience to say they are lazy is shocking and in correct generalisation. Oion the pension issue and the supposed gold played pension. I left a PRIVATE sector pension scheme with 10 years service and that has accrued me a larger annual pension than the average public sector worker will get after 40 years service. Tell me are the public sector pensions that enter than the private sector, (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 anyone reading this who is claiming when they could work, anyone avoiding tax (however unfair), anyone who says we're all in this together despite obvious privilege and wealth, anyone who can't see that the coalition are just in it for their voters, sod everyone else, career criminals, [size=1]Cough ....forest and they're supporters.......ahem[/size] [size=1][size=4]These are who should be pilloried........ not hard working teachers and nurses( who didn't strike btw) etc. most nhs workers earn well under £16000 that gives them a massive max £8000 pension only if they work a full 40 years(in the nhs), 20yrs gets a whopping £4000 10yrears £2000[/size][/size] etc.... gold plated eh..... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Listen to the spin if you can't find the facts out for yourselves..... the nhs staff will be working at christmas while everyone else stuffs turkey down they're gobs....enjoy 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> Oh and no one needs to envy public workers, get some education and jump on the gravy train yourselves these jobs will always be there/needed 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Most NHS workers are not on less than £16,000 at all. However small some pensions are they are a top up to the state one and are guaranteed. If I were to put money into a pension fund it would be invested/gambled by the pension provider and there is no guarantee you would get anything at the end of it. Also the Taxpayer would have contributed more to that guaranteed pension than the recipient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 That's what's completely wrong about policy making in the last twenty years. Both the Conservatives and New Labour have introduced policies catered towards middle earners, because these are the swinging voters. Tax credits are a perfect example of this. Well-off families were able to claim them until they were cut by the Coalition in 2010. Someone needs to have the balls to make fair policy rather than policy that is designed to appease whoever's vote they want. The Coalition are happy to screw over the public sector because they are largely union members who vote Labour so regardless of what you do to them, you wouldn't have their vote anyway. Middle England is doing well for itself at the moment. My mates' parents have taken three different holidays abroad this year, and another friends' parents have just bought a Mercedes. These middle earners still have disposable income that should be taxed, but the government will not do this because they don't want to lose their vote. Going on one less holiday a year, not having such a luxurious car or not being able to extend your house should be sacrifices made in this economy. But unfortunately the sacrifices being made are by the poorest people unable to pay utility bills. You can't just raise taxes and not expect companies/individuals to relocate, even Ireland undercutting us on corporation tax was evidence of that. I think we'd risk losing some of our best and brightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 No I live in the real world, I have two children at secondary school. I am well aware of what a lot, not all teachers are really like. A large percentage are not in it to help children, they are in it for the short hours and long holidays. I will point out that there are teachers out there who inspire children and really care, they are worth their weight in gold, my experience is though that this is a reducing type of teacher. Not only do you follow slavishly the patter of Mr Glick, it seems you believe what left-wing teaching unions tell you as well. Gullible springs to mind. I'll say it again I tell it as it is not what people may want to hear. I'm glad that you think that there are some excellent teachers. Too right there are. But, please, don't assume I'm gullible, that is your opinion and you are welcome to it, I daresay I've got more life experience than you can even begin to imagine and base my opinions on what I see, but why bring Tom Glick into it? And where, exactly, in any of my posts in any thread have I referred to him? The subject matter being discussed here has nothing to do with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Half my family are teachers including two sisters, one teaches in Derby the other in a Derbyshire school. They work very hard but are compensated for by the hoildays. It is a stressful job and one I wouldn't do, its more counselling than teaching by the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Well Ianm and Dangerous, I'm a teacher and i'm currently in Wales on an outward bound residential. I drove 5 hours here behind the coach so I could ferry students to the doctors/hospital when we are here. I am with the students from 7.30 in the morning till ten at night. I earn less than £30k and should get a pension of around £5k per year. Teachers aren't asking for more money. We have a contract that the government wants to change that will leave us £100-150k worse off over our lifetime. We have had a 2 year pay freeze and pay will go up by 1% in the next two years. I've worked in the private sector and in schools and it took me 6 years and 2 promotions to get back to the salary i earnt previously. If you want to point the finger, point it at bankers who we've all bailed out and are dragging in mega bonuses again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 im not pointing the finger at just teachers,I appreciate the job they do,one I couldnt do myself. Please dont try to say that private sector pensions are better.A lot of private sector workers dont have a pension.A lot of people have had a pay freeze,some have took pay cuts too.The government have lied to you,they have also lied to the OAPS and pretty much everyone.Thats what governments do.Holding the country to ransom isnt going to work.The bankers are largely to blame yes,but the reality is we all have to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Whislt you clearly have a good grasp on what the basic arguement is, unfortunately I'm not 100% you know exactly how pensions work in the public vs. private sector. Currently private sector enployees are obliged to provide some form of pension provision - be it a DC scheme, a stakeholder scheme or simply access via a third party. Really in the private sector the emphasis is on people to take action themselves but overall the general provision of finance and advice in the UK is decent. Forcing firms to do more puts a huge strangle hold on small to medium businesses Historically the public sector pensions have been more generous to compensate for reduced wages. Unfortunately due to a combination of an aging population, previous public centre pension mismanagement and the mess the UK finds itself financially reforms along the line of what is happening (increased contributions & longer working) are necesary. Whilst I sympathise a great deal with public sector workes, I cannot see an alternatvie. Yes, you can cry 'tax the bankers' but in practice this isnt that simple. Also, public sector pension reform is required for its long term stability. Public sector pensions have been excellent for years - look at how comfortably teachers, police etc have been able to retire after 30ish years service. Unfortunately this is just not sustainable anymore. Again, whilst I sympathise, I think this is just a necesary evil that is required. As said in this thread previosuly - there will be a myriad of changes to public/private sector pension regulation over the next 20-30 years so this is probably just the tip of the iceberg There will be a lot of changes within the next 20 or so years but I think we need to fight for the right of a decent pension, luckily i don't have to worry yet as I am only 18. Maybe firms could give more stock to employees? like a co-operative business model, so then everyone has some shares and sensible action is made involving the companies future and everyone can share in the profits which will motivate people to work harder, it will boost income and make it easier to save up for a pension and will be a source of income when retired. The teachers pension is self sustaining, german pensions are far better than ours, there seems to be a myth that we have no money left and therefore we have to save everything, it is not true if we want a way out except slashing peoples pensions we will find one, except the government doesn't want to find one. What osbourne often fails to mention is that they have saved so hard, the economy has dipped and we are having to borrow more money because of the saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 im not pointing the finger at just teachers,I appreciate the job they do,one I couldnt do myself. Please dont try to say that private sector pensions are better.A lot of private sector workers dont have a pension.A lot of people have had a pay freeze,some have took pay cuts too.The government have lied to you,they have also lied to the OAPS and pretty much everyone.Thats what governments do.Holding the country to ransom isnt going to work.The bankers are largely to blame yes,but the reality is we all have to pay for it. If public sector pensions are better then private pensions, why do we want to reduce public sector pensions? We need to improve all pensions. We do pay into our pensions you now. Do you think we should accept these cuts without a whimper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 If public sector pensions are better then private pensions, why do we want to reduce public sector pensions? We need to improve all pensions. We do pay into our pensions you now. Do you think we should accept these cuts without a whimper? No I dont,but striking,whilst talks are ongoing is not the answer if you want support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 There is no doubt a strike helps cameron in the public eye among private sector employees, but the strike i believe was morally necessary. It is a stand against the government in solidarity, private sector workers should demand better as well, demand shares for all your hard work, demand fair pay, demand better pensions, if we group together these things one day might just might start to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 No I dont,but striking,whilst talks are ongoing is not the answer if you want support. How can talks be ongoing when we have been told that was the final offer? and the ministers refused to meet the unions since 2.11.11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Strikes can be necessary,I have been on strike before (once for a pointless cause,but felt duty bound).Problem is the damage done by striking.When you disrupt schools,healthcare etc you are treading on dangerous ground. I notice the immigration border control officers were on strike too.I bet nobody missed them,theyve hardly been doing their job properly over the last ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 one day of school is hardly dangerous, healthcare was in the main not affected, certainly no serious procedures were stopped so i think it is fine. However your point is a valid reason why a rolling strike cannot happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 one day of school is hardly dangerous, healthcare was in the main not affected, certainly no serious procedures were stopped so i think it is fine. However your point is a valid reason why a rolling strike cannot happen. Not one person went on strike in the hospital I work in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Not one person went on strike in the hospital I work in.. well there you go, i know some n.h.s staff did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 one day of school is hardly dangerous, healthcare was in the main not affected, certainly no serious procedures were stopped so i think it is fine. However your point is a valid reason why a rolling strike cannot happen. I am not referring just to the lack of a days education. People have to look after their kids.Parents had to take time off their own jobs (some without pay) to look after their kids.I am not suggesting that school is a babysitting service before you jump on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkletoes Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 each to there own if they believe that they have a genuine gripe then fair play its easy to moan if doesnt effect your pension. ok its a pain for working ppl agreed and bins and alike is a nuisance but its one day ffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 well there you go, i know some n.h.s staff did though. Ancillary staff maybe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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