public sector workers strike

[james_ram]

Toyota don't panic if they have a slow 3 month period. Our economy is ruled by the "markets" who demand instant returns. For companies like Toyota to prosper they have to have a more long term approach to growth.

EXACTLY MY POINT 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleep' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='-_-' /> . Everyone wants a short term fix, it's not happening!

[ianm]

The UK has been in debt for over 300 years. But one thing it has never failed to do is repay its debt.

This is why the markets are always happy to invest and bond yields are kept lower than Germany's.

When we're about to head into a recession it's vital that we spend something, even if it increases our debt. The best thing to do would be a tax cut for people on lower incomes (< £15,000 p/a) so they can spend.

45% of taxpayers earn less tha £15k and this is why the economy's struggling. They don't have savings to fall back upon unlike the upper middle class and wealthy.

If this government did just this one sensible thing the markets would understand that despite putting us into more debt it would be beneficial in the long term.

Adding 3% extra tax to public sector workers (a lot of whom earn little) makes no sense whatsoever. It's incredibly regressive and it's going to keep us in recession for possibly another year.

There is no 3% extra Tax they are merely been asked to contribute more to their pensions, whilst the taxpayer contributes a bit less. This should have happened years ago, all the time I was at the Post Office my contributions stayed the same.

All this dispute is about is some Public Sector workers (led by lazy teachers) not wanting their take home pay reducing and then leading others to strike. In other words the selfish and the weak. If they don't want to contribute properly to the best most guaranteed pension schemes available, just pull out of the scheme.

[Perky1106]

There is no 3% extra Tax they are merely been asked to contribute more to their pensions, whilst the taxpayer contributes a bit less. This should have happened years ago, all the time I was at the Post Office my contributions stayed the same.

All this dispute is about is some Public Sector workers (led by lazy teachers) not wanting their take home pay reducing and then leading others to strike. In other words the selfish and the weak. If they don't want to contribute properly to the best most guaranteed pension schemes available, just pull out of the scheme.

I can't even be bothered to reply if you're calling teachers lazy.

[ianm]

I can't even be bothered to reply if you're calling teachers lazy.

A large proportion of teachers are lazy.

Who are the first to be off if there is a bit of snow, who else engineers the whole week off before Xmas this year, who else has 14 weeks holiday. Who are the first to moan and come out on strike.

They don't know how fortunate they are.

[EastKentRam]

A large proportion of teachers are lazy.

Who are the first to be off if there is a bit of snow, who else engineers the whole week off before Xmas this year, who else has 14 weeks holiday. Who are the first to moan and come out on strike.

They don't know how fortunate they are.

I dont get why people bring up the 'teachers have loads of holiday argument'. If there's no kids to teach what the f*ck are they suppose to do? It's not the teachers having 14 weeks holiday, it's the kids. If you start saying, kids should be in school longer and get less holiday then you might have an argument.

[SillyBilly]

Yep, sure does! Governments can kick start or kill economies, its a choice. There are alternatives to austerity cuts SB, as you probably well know.

Its not really that simple is it. To use your example, there are thousands of unoccupied houses less than a few hundred miles away from here and we both know which country we're talking about, one which recklessly borrowed. I really don't see why the U.K is above falling into a postion like the PIGS of this world.

My second point is addressed to Joe. If you adopt any sort of tax policy like you've mentioned its not just bankers you risk alienating but large swathes of the middle classes. None of you probably have any experience of the "brain drain" Britain is suffering and how that impacts the economy, noone could put a figure on that.

[Dangerous]

I asked my son if his teachers had told him why they were to be off school.He said that weve just been told theyre on strike.[size=4]I had to explain to him.Teachers should have told the kids why they were depriving them of a days school.I think the public sector workers have done themselves no favours at all with the strike.Im afraid a large amount of the private sector have little sympathy for them.They do not have a clue how fortunate they are.[/size]

[size=4]As for Clarkson,he was having a joke for gods sake.Unison are a joke.[/size]

[ianm]

I dont get why people bring up the 'teachers have loads of holiday argument'. If there's no kids to teach what the f*ck are they suppose to do? It's not the teachers having 14 weeks holiday, it's the kids. If you start saying, kids should be in school longer and get less holiday then you might have an argument.

I do think that they should be off less, probably two weeks less at summer and a week less at Easter.

Teachers should do all the preparation extra training etc in the holidays. What happens now is they they take more and more extra days for this in term time. My children did not go back till the Thursday after the summer holidays and the week before Xmas they are off for the full week. Taking the piss in my opinion and Mr Gove needs to get it sorted out.

[ramjam]

The arguement that teachers should have less holidays is a joke. They fit in around the term time. And all the teachers I know do their planning during their time off at Xmas and Summer.

[EastKentRam]

I do think that they should be off less, probably two weeks less at summer and a week less at Easter.

Teachers should do all the preparation extra training etc in the holidays. What happens now is they they take more and more extra days for this in term time. My children did not go back till the Thursday after the summer holidays and the week before Xmas they are off for the full week. Taking the piss in my opinion and Mr Gove needs to get it sorted out.

All teachers i know do their planning during their holiday, not sure when else they can do it? I agree with you about training day, and both my parents, who are teachers, would do as well. They see them as a complete waste of time, they're still going into work though and apparently being trained.

Reducing the amount of holiday the kids have would mean the entire education system having to be changed, every subject cirriculum would need to be altered, with many teachers having to learn new material.

So to sum your argument up, the 5 training days a year that teachers have need to be scrapped (i agree) and the kids (not teachers) should get less holiday, which is a fair argument.

[ianm]

The arguement that teachers should have less holidays is a joke. They fit in around the term time. And all the teachers I know do their planning during their time off at Xmas and Summer.

Absolute bull no teacher is under any obligation to work in holidays and the vast majority do not. Go past any school in the holidays and the car parks are empty. Go to any school after 4 and the only people there are the head and the caretaker unless a club is on.

[Dangerous]

The hypocrisy with the teachers is if I am to take my kids away during term time I would incur a fine,yet it is perfectly ok for them to strike and have no consequences.

[ianm]

All teachers i know do their planning during their holiday, not sure when else they can do it? I agree with you about training day, and both my parents, who are teachers, would do as well. They see them as a complete waste of time, they're still going into work though and apparently being trained.

Reducing the amount of holiday the kids have would mean the entire education system having to be changed, every subject cirriculum would need to be altered, with many teachers having to learn new material.

So to sum your argument up, the 5 training days a year that teachers have need to be scrapped (i agree) and the kids (not teachers) should get less holiday, which is a fair argument.

The kids should go down to 10 weeks and teachers holiday down to 7 or 8 weeks. The gravy train they have been on for too long has to stop sometime. Those two or 3 weeks should be the training/planning weeks and they should actually go to the workplace not work from home.

[Perky1106]

My second point is addressed to Joe. If you adopt any sort of tax policy like you've mentioned its not just bankers you risk alienating but large swathes of the middle classes. None of you probably have any experience of the "brain drain" Britain is suffering and how that impacts the economy, noone could put a figure on that.

That's what's completely wrong about policy making in the last twenty years. Both the Conservatives and New Labour have introduced policies catered towards middle earners, because these are the swinging voters.

Tax credits are a perfect example of this. Well-off families were able to claim them until they were cut by the Coalition in 2010.

Someone needs to have the balls to make fair policy rather than policy that is designed to appease whoever's vote they want.

The Coalition are happy to screw over the public sector because they are largely union members who vote Labour so regardless of what you do to them, you wouldn't have their vote anyway.

Middle England is doing well for itself at the moment. My mates' parents have taken three different holidays abroad this year, and another friends' parents have just bought a Mercedes. These middle earners still have disposable income that should be taxed, but the government will not do this because they don't want to lose their vote.

Going on one less holiday a year, not having such a luxurious car or not being able to extend your house should be sacrifices made in this economy. But unfortunately the sacrifices being made are by the poorest people unable to pay utility bills.

[ianm]

That's what's completely wrong about policy making in the last twenty years. Both the Conservatives and New Labour have introduced policies catered towards middle earners, because these are the swinging voters.

Tax credits are a perfect example of this. Well-off families were able to claim them until they were cut by the Coalition in 2010.

Someone needs to have the balls to make fair policy rather than policy that is designed to appease whoever's vote they want.

The Coalition are happy to screw over the public sector because they are largely union members who vote Labour so regardless of what you do to them, you wouldn't have their vote anyway.

Middle England is doing well for itself at the moment. My mates' parents have taken three different holidays abroad this year, and another friends' parents have just bought a Mercedes. These middle earners still have disposable income that should be taxed, but the government will not do this because they don't want to lose their vote.

Going on one less holiday a year, not having such a luxurious car or not being able to extend your house should be sacrifices made in this economy. But unfortunately the sacrifices being made are by the poorest people unable to pay utility bills.

The coalition is not screwing over the Public Sector. The cuts so far implemented are only slightly above what Labour would have committed to for every £18 saved Labour would have saved £17. VAT would have gone to 19% not 20%.

We are spending far more than we are taking in and whoever got in had a big job to sort it out. This is no right-wing hard line government. The cuts were not as severe as many expected and this pensions deal is a generous one in the circumstances. Just because you are in a Union does not mean you vote Labour, middle to above average earning Public Sector workers are a key swing vote area. That's why Tony Blair gave these people so much.

[ladyram]

A large proportion of teachers are lazy.

Who are the first to be off if there is a bit of snow, who else engineers the whole week off before Xmas this year, who else has 14 weeks holiday. Who are the first to moan and come out on strike.

They don't know how fortunate they are.

So not only are you an expert on all things Derby County, you know exactly what a teachers workload entails too? Don't make me laugh. You have no idea what you're on about.

The only thing you know, sir, is how to give a lesson in first class wummery. Bravo!!

[ianm]

So not only are you an expert on all things Derby County, you know exactly what a teachers workload entails too? Don't make me laugh. You have no idea what you're on about.

The only thing you know, sir, is how to give a lesson in first class wummery. Bravo!!

No I live in the real world, I have two children at secondary school. I am well aware of what a lot, not all teachers are really like. A large percentage are not in it to help children, they are in it for the short hours and long holidays.

I will point out that there are teachers out there who inspire children and really care, they are worth their weight in gold, my experience is though that this is a reducing type of teacher.

Not only do you follow slavishly the patter of Mr Glick, it seems you believe what left-wing teaching unions tell you as well. Gullible springs to mind.

I'll say it again I tell it as it is not what people may want to hear.

[ramjam]

Absolute bull no teacher is under any obligation to work in holidays and the vast majority do not. Go past any school in the holidays and the car parks are empty. Go to any school after 4 and the only people there are the head and the caretaker unless a club is on.

I'm sorry, I think this is drivel, we'll have to disagree on this.

So car parks are empty during holidays, is it beoynd the realms of possibility they do their plannnig at home? Go to any school after 4 and there are no teachers there...I'm sorry this is just not true

I'm not saying all teachers work as they should, but plenty do. Your generalisations are laughable.

[Day]

When I went to school at least 1 teacher was always there after 4, never understood why they didn't trust me to sit out my detention alone

[froggg]

anyone reading this who is claiming when they could work,

anyone avoiding tax (however unfair),

anyone who says we're all in this together despite obvious privilege and wealth,

anyone who can't see that the coalition are just in it for their voters, sod everyone else,

career criminals,

[size=1]Cough ....forest and they're supporters.......ahem[/size]

[size=1][size=4]These are who should be pilloried........ not hard working teachers and nurses( who didn't strike btw) etc. most nhs workers earn well under £16000 that gives them a massive max £8000 pension only if they work a full 40 years(in the nhs), 20yrs gets a whopping £4000 10yrears £2000[/size][/size] etc.... gold plated eh..... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

Listen to the spin if you can't find the facts out for yourselves..... the nhs staff will be working at christmas while everyone else stuffs turkey down they're gobs....enjoy 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

Oh and no one needs to envy public workers, get some education and jump on the gravy train yourselves these jobs will always be there/needed 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />