Clough - Delusional?

[RotherhamRam]

Rotherham, tell me..

Who will finish higher this season, Derby or Barnsley?

Derby.

[Alex W]

A drink paid for by the UK TaxPayer.

A drink paid for by me slaving away at 4am every morning while you're staggering home from another student night out.

[EastKentRam]

The point about Barnsley wasnt how they are playing, who they've signed etc, but that Hill has installed a brand of football. Clough seems to change our formation/style/players every month.

[Ghost of Clough]

Are you also really that ignorant that you think I only care about a Derby County?

I'm actually a football fan first, Derby County second..

I regularly watch games during the week from over many different countries monitoring playing styles, players abroad and the way clubs are run. Just from last night until now I would have seen 4 different matches from 4 different countries..

So that means you know all about Barnsley?

[Bris Vegas]

Derby.

Noted.

[ram2767]

I think that we can agree what Nigel said in the interview has had a very negative effect. Usually I just accept that kind of result, admit that its not our season and look forward to the next game. And i would have done the same but Nige coming out and being somehow so completely wrong has confused be and made me believe that he doesn't know what hes doing. Does he? I'm losing faith...I really am.

[Alex W]

Hill has had them playing both hoofball and across the floor, not to mention around three formations this season. They've also been trying wide/narrow formations.

He has been changing his hand due to different games and their form. Is that not what every team does?

It's very rare that a side plays exactly the same every week with exactly the same style. Swansea are one of the few, and even they changed to totally across the floor as before that they'd been playing nice football with the objective to get Kuqi's head on the end of crosses.

[WorksopRam]

A drink paid for by me slaving away at 4am every morning while you're staggering home from another student night out.

I haven't been out for about a month. And it's more swagger than stagger for me.

[Alex W]

I haven't been out for about a month. And it's more swagger than stagger for me.

Big Cher Lloyd fan are we?

[Asanovic]

I think Leicester is the exception rather than the rule, and again Leicester are underachieving massively, just because one club is underachieving it doesn't mean it is an excuse for us to be. The injuries have been constant, we have two choices in what we accept, either a) clough injures players through horrible techniques or 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> clough buys injury prone players, both are a symptom of bad management. I am saying that sometimes 2 or 3 top quality players in key positions can be better than 5-6 mediocre ones. Face it, we could have got 3 top quality championship players and brought in loan players to cover the other positions which we need anyway, and the loans would probably been as good as what we have now. Clough spent money in the positions he felt necessary, if we spent 1 million pounds on a player in every position we would have to spend 11 million for us to get it right, most teams spend a couple of million on a couple of players and put in the rest with a few hundred grand, that is normal and what we are doing, it seems in your eyes clough can do no wrong even when the man is blatantly out of line and completely incorrect and incoherent in his strategy for the future. Maybe clough did have a change of heart, he is not logical. Clough hasn't said this season he hasn't had enough, glick has said the money is there, he needs to get a grip and so do some others.

He did a good job 2 seasons ago when jewell left, but since then apart from two runs he has been a dismal failure, he should have gone last season but was saved by his name.

That quite simply is not true.

He did a good job last year of keeping Derby in this division with a bunch of misfits that he wasn't allowed to improve on, and have to put up with selling our two best players. He deserves his chance with his own team if nothing else.

I'm not defending what he said today, some of the stuff he does baffles me, but at least tell it like is rather than coming up with sh*te to suit your own argument. The owners would never even have heard of Clough before getting here.

We're 9th in the league, in a worrying vein of form. It looks like we're going to get a striker in on loan that will make betterment of this team. Hopefully results will improve and we can aim for a top half finish.

If someone offered me 9th now, I'd be rate happy.

[WorksopRam]

Big Cher Lloyd fan are we?

Not really

[Leeds Ram]

That quite simply is not true.

He did a good job last year of keeping Derby in this division with a bunch of misfits that he wasn't allowed to improve on, and have to put up with selling our two best players. He deserves his chance with his own team if nothing else.

I'm not defending what he said today, some of the stuff he does baffles me, but at least tell it like is rather than coming up with sh*te to suit your own argument. The owners would never even have heard of Clough before getting here.

We're 9th in the league, in a worrying vein of form. It looks like we're going to get a striker in on loan that will make betterment of this team. Hopefully results will improve and we can aim for a top half finish.

If someone offered me 9th now, I'd be rate happy.

oh come on please be realistic, the americans knew nigel would buy them time, they would have done research and even a quick google search would reveal brian and his son nigel. Last season we were lucky not to be relegated and most other clubs and most other fans would have been baying for blood and sack the manager. Again last season it was HIS squad and I believe he was saved by his name especially in many fans eyes. I would be happy with 9th as well but i doubt we will finish in 9th. How does it look like we will get a striker in? didn't you listen to clough on the radio? I am telling it how it is, or how I see it, we have never defended a manager like we have clough and why is that? remember he has never achieved a top half finish above the conference. He sold our two best players, no one forced him too, for the 300k we got for commons we might as well have kept him and I believe it was a mistake to sell hulse which again was clough's decision. Last season was his team, so you stop talking shi* to suit your argument as well.

[Asanovic]

oh come on please be realistic, the americans knew nigel would buy them time, they would have done research and even a quick google search would reveal brian and his son nigel. Last season we were lucky not to be relegated and most other clubs and most other fans would have been baying for blood and sack the manager. Again last season it was HIS squad and I believe he was saved by his name especially in many fans eyes. I would be happy with 9th as well but i doubt we will finish in 9th. How does it look like we will get a striker in? didn't you listen to clough on the radio? I am telling it how it is, or how I see it, we have never defended a manager like we have clough and why is that? remember he has never achieved a top half finish above the conference. He sold our two best players, no one forced him too, for the 300k we got for commons we might as well have kept him and I believe it was a mistake to sell hulse which again was clough's decision. Last season was his team, so you stop talking shi* to suit your argument as well.

Maybe the reason they kept him is because they probably realise alot of supporters would be pretty p*ssed off having their season ticket money spent on tearing up another contract and bringing someone of probably a similar pedigree on similar wages. Do you think they would have paid big money for another manager? When they were on google looking at Brian Clough they might have also noticed he brought success over a longer period of time. They probably also looked at the most succesful managers in English football, and noticed they all have a sustained period of time with their clubs. They then probably looked at the least succesful, and saw that by and large, they sack managers every ten minutes.

I'll defend him when he does well, and I'll criticise when he does poorly. This isn't some kind of childish game where you have to either like him or dislike him. He does some great stuff, some crazy stuff, so it isn't as black and white as you make out.

The situation with Commons was totally out of his control, and everyone knows it, and I suspect to a certain degree it was with Hulse as well. Last season was his squad, but MASSIVELY depleted and once he had to hack at the wage bill. I hardly think he can be judged that match on the squad last year, but if we are judging, I think he did well to keep us up.

I haven't got an argument, and that's the difference. I can see we need to improve on recent games, and I can also see that if we get a few players back fit we could look a different team. I just think we need some stability. If you want success on a small scale, maybe have a stab at the play offs one year in four, change the manager every so often, great. Like we did with Davies and Burley. But what does that actually bring in the end?

If you want something longer term, bringing youth players and trying to build success, then stick with one person. I think he's the right person based on that, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does along the way, and I'll continue to praise and criticise as I see it.

[Leeds Ram]

Maybe the reason they kept him is because they probably realise alot of supporters would be pretty p*ssed off having their season ticket money spent on tearing up another contract and bringing someone of probably a similar pedigree on similar wages. Do you think they would have paid big money for another manager? When they were on google looking at Brian Clough they might have also noticed he brought success over a longer period of time. They probably also looked at the most succesful managers in English football, and noticed they all have a sustained period of time with their clubs. They then probably looked at the least succesful, and saw that by and large, they sack managers every ten minutes.

I'll defend him when he does well, and I'll criticise when he does poorly. This isn't some kind of childish game where you have to either like him or dislike him. He does some great stuff, some crazy stuff, so it isn't as black and white as you make out.

The situation with Commons was totally out of his control, and everyone knows it, and I suspect to a certain degree it was with Hulse as well. Last season was his squad, but MASSIVELY depleted and once he had to hack at the wage bill. I hardly think he can be judged that match on the squad last year, but if we are judging, I think he did well to keep us up.

I haven't got an argument, and that's the difference. I can see we need to improve on recent games, and I can also see that if we get a few players back fit we could look a different team. I just think we need some stability. If you want success on a small scale, maybe have a stab at the play offs one year in four, change the manager every so often, great. Like we did with Davies and Burley. But what does that actually bring in the end?

If you want something longer term, bringing youth players and trying to build success, then stick with one person. I think he's the right person based on that, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does along the way, and I'll continue to praise and criticise as I see it.

I am not saying lose patience with managers, however he almost took us down with his decisions, that is my problem. I have seen no evidence that at this level he can succeed for more than 15-20 games and that to me is a serious worry. He constantly changes the squad and makes it little better, he has spent 3 million on a defence which is leaking goals like never before.Similar pedigree? hardly, i think most managers can beat this mans pedigree, all he has is non league titles to his name, I believe in stability but if a manager hasn't brought any success in 3 years where do you draw the line? I will defend nigel when he does well and I want him to do well, the problem for me is he hasn't done well.

You and me have different opinions on last season, you think he did well I personally think he was appalling and should have been sacked I would be happy to pay money for a new manager at this point. I think the next 10 games will define our season and we need to step our game up quickly. A lot of supporters last season would have been happy for him to have gone, polls showed that at least half wanted him to walk or be sacked. I don't dislike him, i simply don't rate him as a manager and it has yet to be proven otherwise.

[Asanovic]

I am not saying lose patience with managers, however he almost took us down with his decisions, that is my problem. I have seen no evidence that at this level he can succeed for more than 15-20 games and that to me is a serious worry. He constantly changes the squad and makes it little better, he has spent 3 million on a defence which is leaking goals like never before.Similar pedigree? hardly, i think most managers can beat this mans pedigree, all he has is non league titles to his name, I believe in stability but if a manager hasn't brought any success in 3 years where do you draw the line? I will defend nigel when he does well and I want him to do well, the problem for me is he hasn't done well.

You and me have different opinions on last season, you think he did well I personally think he was appalling and should have been sacked I would be happy to pay money for a new manager at this point. I think the next 10 games will define our season and we need to step our game up quickly. A lot of supporters last season would have been happy for him to have gone, polls showed that at least half wanted him to walk or be sacked. I don't dislike him, i simply don't rate him as a manager and it has yet to be proven otherwise.

I think it's a reasonable acheivement that he kept us up, so you're right, we'll agree to disagree.

I'd love to see you manage a project that had funds slashed, and you had to get rid of some of your best resources - how the hell was he meant to bring success?! What would you have done differently?

All I ask is that you post facts. We don't have a defence that leaks goals 'like never before' - factually, that is inaccurate. Look at our Premiership season. Infact, look at other seasons in the league we're in now - I haven't, but I guess we've been leakier.

With regard to the defence Clough has assembled, it's funny how when we were winning everyone was hailing Shackell and Brayford, and Barker in past seasons. Just the fickleness of football supporters, I guess.

[Mr Tibbs]

I'm a big fan of Clough but his interview is utter ***** today, I thought you wanted honesty Nige, show some yourself!

[RotherhamRam]

I am not saying lose patience with managers, however he almost took us down with his decisions, that is my problem. I have seen no evidence that at this level he can succeed for more than 15-20 games and that to me is a serious worry. He constantly changes the squad and makes it little better, he has spent 3 million on a defence which is leaking goals like never before.Similar pedigree? hardly, i think most managers can beat this mans pedigree, all he has is non league titles to his name, I believe in stability but if a manager hasn't brought any success in 3 years where do you draw the line? I will defend nigel when he does well and I want him to do well, the problem for me is he hasn't done well.

You and me have different opinions on last season, you think he did well I personally think he was appalling and should have been sacked I would be happy to pay money for a new manager at this point. I think the next 10 games will define our season and we need to step our game up quickly. A lot of supporters last season would have been happy for him to have gone, polls showed that at least half wanted him to walk or be sacked. I don't dislike him, i simply don't rate him as a manager and it has yet to be proven otherwise.

Ok then with the players we have we started the season playing 4132. (this is with Tyson, Barker and Roberts injured).

Name the side with the current players at our disposal (this means taking the players out who are injured and out on loan plus Leacock). Who could play this formation.

Also the 4231 which worked for us last season. Then say whether the team and squad would actually win any games and if so which games.

Now this should be easier then doing it on a game to game basis as Clough has as this exercise does not need you to consider any injuries or personal problems the players has. Pick on form what you have seen over the last 2 games. One stipulation you also have to consider the risks of injury to Barker and Green if you put them in from the beginning after coming back from serious injuries.

Once you have done this then decide what formation you would play before todays game with the players that were available.

The final task is considering the form of Cywka and Maguire and the injuries sustained to Bryson and Robinson and consider they are injured for the next game. The formation with the players available and reason why you have picked this.

[AndyB]

Why do people keep going on about Clough spending £3m on a defence? Does anyone disagree with the Fielding, Brayford, Barker and Shackell signings? Today was the first time they were all on the pitch together, Brayford was first game back from injury and Barker was a second half sub playing up front. This £3m defence may well be excellent - give it time. Also if Clough had been able to spend £3m on the front half of the team maybe we'd be OK?

[Bris Vegas]

Why do people keep going on about Clough spending £3m on a defence? Does anyone disagree with the Fielding, Brayford, Barker and Shackell signings? Today was the first time they were all on the pitch together, Brayford was first game back from injury and Barker was a second half sub playing up front. This £3m defence may well be excellent - give it time. Also if Clough had been able to spend £3m on the front half of the team maybe we'd be OK?

Why do people keep going on about Clough spending £3m on a defence? Does anyone disagree with the Fielding, Brayford, Barker and Shackell signings? Today was the first time they were all on the pitch together, Brayford was first game back from injury and Barker was a second half sub playing up front. This £3m defence may well be excellent - give it time. Also if Clough had been able to spend £3m on the front half of the team maybe we'd be OK?

I disagree with spending $1mill on an injury prone average centre back yes.. Especially when someone like Sol Bamba and Leon Barnett were available for around 300k.

[Asanovic]

I disagree with spending $1mill on an injury prone average centre back yes.. Especially when someone like Sol Bamba and Leon Barnett were available for around 300k.

Probably couldn't afford their wages.